Grizzly Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 I really missed you Ceres. You were gone so long but yet seem never to have left that fairy tale world of illusion where Denmark rules the football world. It was so nice watching your team in the Euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Why is that I cant ( aside from the Canadians who are playing there) name anyone off the top of my head who plays in the Danish Superliga? Because you really dont know anything about the league .... How about Libor Sionko ?... Probably the best playing Czech Republic player at the Euro-08 finals (if you watched the Czechs play ). He was nothing special a few years back, but has really improved and done well after he moved to the Danish league a year ago... He has also said so himself... If you ask Johan Elmander, it was also in the Danish league he developed into a Star player... The years he spend in the Netherlands playing for Feyenoord and NAC Breda before moving to Brøndby, was more or less a waste of time, but in Denmark he bacame a Star and was an instant success in France when he moved there from Brøndby.. actually, his first season in France was also his best season in France. Of course losts and lots of danish Internationals in the past, like Peter Schmeichel and so forth were developed in the Danish league, before moving abroad... quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I really missed you Ceres. You were gone so long but yet seem never to have left that fairy tale world of illusion where Denmark rules the football world. It was so nice watching your team in the Euros. When did I ever say that ??... I'm just writing that the players are saying the MLS is not on pair, because the training sessions and league games are much more competitive in Europe....It's not my opinion, but the players opinion.. you go and ask the Americans if they dont think Danny Califf actually has become a better player after leaving the MLS, despite his age... I do belive that the Danish league is better than you may think... or perhaps I should say, you better hope it is, because the fact is that Ali Gerba got more than a fair chance to show his worth, but only showed that he was not good enough to play as a regular starter in the Superliga... So if the players are wrong and your you right that the MLS is more competitive, then ther is no chance that he will become a regular starter in the MLS... As for Denmark not qualfying for the Euros... I dont see what that has to do with league quality ?.. I didnt see England at the Euro-08 either ??... Still, the main reason for Denmark not qualifying, was : 1) Being in the same group as Spain and Sweden..( + being punished by UEFA because of a drunken idiot attacking the referee in the Sweden game) 2) Having been struck by so many injuries in defense the past 4 years, that the Danish NT at times has been down to 7th pick in central defense... You can hardly argue against Denmark having great defenders like Daniel Agger (Liverpool), Martin Laursen who was in Sky sports EPL Team of the Season : http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11979_3569135,00.html .. not to forget Krøldrup and Jørgensen both playing for Fiorentina in Italy, but it is not of much help to the NT when they have all been long-term injured the past several years during the Euro-08 qualifiers... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan LoL! There's a running joke in American soccer circles that Bruce Arena throws his hat into the ring for any job that comes available anywhere on the planet. Several blogs constantly make fun of him on this point. Still, he has coached their U23 NT, the USMNT and also DC United, so if he is such a joke to the Americans themself, then what does that tell you about the general quality of managers in the USA ??... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Oh PLEASE! the MLS ( training staff and organization ) cannot compete with 25 leagues in Europe? And you have seen matches from all of these 25 leagues is that right?[] Why is that I cant ( aside from the Canadians who are playing there) name anyone off the top of my head who plays in the Danish Superliga? I honestly don't see why this is so hard to believe...we are talking about nations that have had pro soccer traditions with team that have been in existence for several decades in some cases, where soccer is the national sport and where virtually every adult has some expereince and knowledge of the game. Versus a country where it is all new. Think of Canada and Hockey...if we were to divide Canada into 10 countries...at least 8 of them would have better technical infrastructures for hockey than the United States. Hell...I would venture that a kid from Watson, Saskatchewan or Spanish, Ontario gets a far superior cradle to grave hockey experience than any american kid in any city. The Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League (Tier 2 Junior) offers better coaching across the board than all but the top few NCAA hockey programs in the US...The same is undoubtedly true in the other Junior Leagues across Canada. Or, think baseball. Canada has produced a number of fine players, particularly in recent years. Yet of you listen to the minor league managers and almost to a man they will tell you that Canadian players, while they might have the physical tools, are lacking the refinement of their american counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I really missed you Ceres. You were gone so long but yet seem never to have left that fairy tale world of illusion where Denmark rules the football world. It was so nice watching your team in the Euros. Wow...that is completely unfair and not at all reflective of Cere's participation on this board. In fact, I would say his defence of Danish football was far less vigourous of your defence of Russian football in the face of very similar ignorance. You were correct, as I believe Ceres to be. This paragraph is directed generally: MLS is an improving product...I would venture to say that the gulf between MLS and the better European Leagues closes every year. The difference between MLS now and MLS in its first few years is virtually immeasurable. But it is only a decade old, it does exist in a country where soccer is a niche sport, and it has yet to produce any players on par with the best players produced by several European Leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Honestly, I think this adds something to the discussion. The entire starting 11 for USA were MLS players (yes i know this was a while ago now). The future strength of USMNT seems to be mostly players from MLS (or formerly of MLS) as well. http://ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_281632.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson M Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 let me get this straight... According to Ceres: Danish League > MLS but clearly MLS > USL then how does Adrian Cann sign a 4 year contract with a mid table squad in Denmark when he got cut by an MLS team not to long ago? honestly MLS = Danish Superliga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by ag futbol Honestly, I think this adds something to the discussion. The entire starting 11 for USA were MLS players (yes i know this was a while ago now). The future strength of USMNT seems to be mostly players from MLS (or formerly of MLS) as well. http://ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_281632.html 1) The USMNT were facing the unofficial 'Danish league NT' (Denmark actually has such a team) and not the Danish NT... http://www.dbu.dk/page.aspx?id=6113 Non of the Danish players earn an official cap playing a friendly like this and after the match the Americans were btw a bit angry that FIFA did not want to accept this as an official NT friendly... 2) While the 'Danish league NT' were playing in the US, the Danish U21 NT (and Olympic NT) were on tour, so non of the U21 NT players from the Superliga were able to participate.. and usually the experienced NT players in the Superliga are not invited to play for the unofficial 'Danish league NT', so except for Gravgaard and Lars Jacobsen non of the other experienced Danish internationals from the Danish league (like Jesper Grønkjaer ) were in this team either. 3) With only 2 fairly experienced Danish NT players and non of the U21 NT players in this 'Danish league NT', I think I will be kind to say it was more like a Danish "B" league NT facing a reinforced MLS NT (Heath Pearce from the Danish league was playing for the US and made an assist)... Not to forget that the match was played in the US after the USMNT had been in training camp for some time, while the Danish players were on winter break and had their very first training session when they arrived in the US a few days earlier.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 To be fair, that's not USA's best squad either. No Brian McBride, Bocanegra, Onyewu, Beasley, Jonathan Spector, Feilhaber, Dempsey, that's a lot of quality players missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Tyson M let me get this straight... According to Ceres: Danish League > MLS but clearly MLS > USL then how does Adrian Cann sign a 4 year contract with a mid table squad in Denmark when he got cut by an MLS team not to long ago? honestly MLS = Danish Superliga In principle a Danish Superliga team could sign a 3rd division player from Morocco if they like... If he he has the needed skills he will do well, if not, he wont make it... So I dont really get your point ??.. ...as I have written, then Ali Gerba did not really make it in the Superliga... Neither did the 'MLS Best XI' Wade Barrett ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by ag futbol To be fair, that's not USA's best squad either. No Brian McBride, Bocanegra, Onyewu, Beasley, Jonathan Spector, Feilhaber, Dempsey, that's a lot of quality players missing. So now I should start naming the 40 best Danes playing in the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, the Bundesliga or the Dutch and French league ?... I think I was fair by calling it a 'reinforced MLS NT'... Still, their biggest Star Landon Donovan was in it, while a Danish League Star like Jesper Grønkjaer was not selected for the Danish squad. The fact is that it was a reinforced MLS NT facing an out of shape unofficial Danish Leage 'B' selection on winter break... The match was played in the US right after a USMNT training camp... I guess ther was good reason why Denmark as well as FIFA was regarding this as an unofficial match. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Tyson M let me get this straight... According to Ceres: Danish League > MLS but clearly MLS > USL then how does Adrian Cann sign a 4 year contract with a mid table squad in Denmark when he got cut by an MLS team not to long ago? honestly MLS = Danish Superliga That is a mugs game Tyson...MLS >>>>NCAA yet Edu walks into TFC's starting lineup. Now I don't know if Ceres is arguing Danish Superliga > MLS. Maybe he is, and I do not know enough about the former to judge. But it is not a stretch to suggest that the Danish league is tactically superior and a better development league because the evidence...on show in the top leagues in the world...supports the assertion. There are a lot of things that go into the quality of a league: Foreign players, quality of athlete available, playing skills and tactics. MLS might very well be more or less equal on the whole package. I would venture for example, that MLS is superior to the Danish Superliga on quality of athletes from the limited viewing of televised UEFA and Champions League play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 quote:That is a mugs game Tyson...MLS >>>>NCAA yet Edu walks into TFC's starting lineup. Edu was an absolute man among boys in college and was way too dominant to stay there. Hence he was the grand prize of the draft and left college early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Ceres So now I should start naming the 40 best Danes playing in the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, the Bundesliga or the Dutch and French league ?... I think I was fair by calling it a 'reinforced MLS NT'... Still, their biggest Star Landon Donovan was in it, while a Danish League Star like Jesper Grønkjaer was not selected for the Danish squad. The fact is that it was a reinforced MLS NT facing an out of shape unofficial Danish Leage 'B' selection on winter break... The match was played in the US right after a USMNT training camp... I guess ther was good reason why Denmark as well as FIFA was regarding this as an unofficial match. . Go right ahead. Try as you might, the evidence really isn't supporting your theory that the Danish league is light years ahead of MLS. Call it your "B" side if you must, but a group of players from the inferior league beat a bunch of the domestic league players 3-1. Talk of that match being some sort of "half game" for Denmark, BS. They played the game infront of a crowd, the game was marketed as a friendly, you showed up got spanked and went to cry to fifa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gordon Wow...that is completely unfair and not at all reflective of Cere's participation on this board. In fact, I would say his defence of Danish football was far less vigourous of your defence of Russian football in the face of very similar ignorance. You were correct, as I believe Ceres to be. I've agreed with you on a lot of things in the past Gordon but what is unfair and unreflective is your above comments. Ceres is an agenda poster and has been since he posted here. His main reason for being on the forum seems to be to try and convince us that the Danish league is far better than anyone including Europeans rates it. Close to half of his posts contain some sort of disparaging remark about another league in particular North American leagues or some sort of incredibly exagerated appraisal of the Danish league. Yes he does provide some good information at times about Canadian players there but I'll be damned if I will put up with a lot of insulting crap about our leagues (and since MLS and USL are where we have teams now they are our leagues) just because we get some info about players in Denmark from the same guy. If you come on a board insulting a group's league and many of its players you are not going to be popular especially when your own league is nothing to crow about. We have had a few other posters similar to Ceres (there was one from Holland) but most of the posters from Euro leagues have been both very knowledgeable and reasonable in their views and also very respectful. Unsurprisingly many of these posters, the Germans for example, were from countries that do have top leagues and who would at least have some justification for disparaging the MLS if they had chosen to do so. Ceres' arguing technique is to select a number of examples that support his opinion and to ignore all the examples that don't support his position. Arguing with him just turns into a big circular excercise in false logic which I frankly don't have time for, hence I limited myself to the short sarcastic comment above. Now lets compare this to my supposed vigourous defence of Russian soccer. About 5 years ago when I saw my first Russian soccer game I was pretty impressed with the quality of the league in particular compared with many of the other Euro leagues (I am not referring to the big 4 leagues) I was seeing at the time (I was living in Europe). Some of these other leagues that I had seen that were worse than the Russian league were still a bit better than the Danish league which I have seen quite a few games of on television/internet. The Russian league had a few top teams but yet was pretty solid throughout the table unlike many of the lower European leagues which are pretty weak after the top teams. Like most of the sports in Russia they had undergone a rapid decline immediately following the end of the Soviet Union but were getting back to strength. When Jazic transferred to Kuban Krasnodar many posters thought the league was crap (it was ranked 21st by UEFA, one spot above Denmark which was 22nd) and I said otherwise. What has happened since then? Russia has risen from 21st ranked UEFA league to 6th, in 4 years the UEFA Cup has been won twice by different Russian clubs and the Russian national team just went to the semi-finals of the EURO with a team composed only of players playing in the Russia league (only exception is Saenko who plays in Germany). During the same time the Danish league has inhabited the 23 to 19th spots in the UEFA league rankings and are currently at 19. So basically both I and Ceres have stated that our leagues are good but the only one with any evidence to back this up is myself. Yet despite this how often do I post about Russia? I can't even remember posting anything this year about Russian soccer, not even an, "I told you so" to the people who thought the league was crap 4 years ago. MLS is a decent league which is as good as many of the lower tier UEFA leagues as far as playing style and player development go. The only reason some leagues like Denmark have produced more players playing in better Euro leagues than the MLS is their players have much more opportunity to get scouted due to the fact that Denmark is in Europe and they have a Euro passport which makes it infinitely easier for teams to sign them. There are certainly leagues that are better than MLS in Europe but the Danish league is not one of them. I have watched both MLS and many of these other leagues and I am absolutely able to compare their level of quality. Once one gets past the top 10 Euro leagues MLS is pretty equal to the rest. Gerba did not fail in the Danish league. He scored 4 goals in 15 games which is a pretty good strike rate. As someone else mentioned there was a dispute over the transfer fee demanded by Goteborg and Gerba seems to not have a good work ethic/attitude as confirmed recently by Paul James. Despite this in Ingolstadt I think he was mostly unlucky as he played decently while there. Ingolstadt has quite a bit of money and signed former Czech national team striker Vratislav Lokvenc recently and are also on a bit of a youth movement and have signed many of the best 19-20 year old players in Germany at the moment. Gerba just didn't fit in their current plan. I read some of the fan forums after he was released and quite a few fans were sorry to see him go. I have also been pleasantly surprised by Issey but there is no way he is more talented than Gerba, they are of a similar level and both borderline starters and possibly even selections for our MNT. And what does it say about the quality of the Danish league when someone from the Singapore league is able to establish himself so easily there? And now Cann who in my opinion is well below MLS standard gets a contract from Esbjerg fB. Hope he does well and the Danish league is definitely better than USL but I haven't been that impressed by him. Ceres, the Euro qualification group Denamrk was in was one of the easiest groups. Yes Spain was obviously going to finish first but if you can't beat Sweden and Northern Ireland for the 2nd spot you really don't deserve to be playing in the Euro. Many of the other groups were far tougher. Denmark didn't manage one victory against Spain, Sweden or Northern Ireland and not only lost to Spain and Sweden but also to Northern Ireland. The only teams in your group you could beat were Latvia, Liechtenstein and Iceland. I eagerly await your next round of excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Keano owned I believe the correct terminology is "pwned" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Daniel I believe the correct terminology is "pwned" . my bad [:I] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I honestly don't see why this is so hard to believe...we are talking about nations that have had pro soccer traditions with team that have been in existence for several decades in some cases, where soccer is the national sport and where virtually every adult has some expereince and knowledge of the game. Versus a country where it is all new. Think of Canada and Hockey...if we were to divide Canada into 10 countries...at least 8 of them would have better technical infrastructures for hockey than the United States. Hell...I would venture that a kid from Watson, Saskatchewan or Spanish, Ontario gets a far superior cradle to grave hockey experience than any american kid in any city. The Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League (Tier 2 Junior) offers better coaching across the board than all but the top few NCAA hockey programs in the US...The same is undoubtedly true in the other Junior Leagues across Canada. Or, think baseball. Canada has produced a number of fine players, particularly in recent years. Yet of you listen to the minor league managers and almost to a man they will tell you that Canadian players, while they might have the physical tools, are lacking the refinement of their american counterparts. I dont doubt that Danes have produced good national teams and good players. But we are not talking about that here. He said the overall quality of a national league from a country of 5 million people is better than what two markets of a combined 300 million can put together. To suggest that is having a very low opinion of what we can do here ( Canada and the the US)in soccer. Well dont need to hear that kind of snobbery and ignorance from some guy in a tiny country in europe. If we are so totally incompetent here, why the hell is somebody willing to invest 40 million dollars to buy into a league that is not a better product than the Danish league. To me Ceres suggestion is borders on trolling and thats why hesitated in bothering to respond. http://www.footballsquads.co.uk/denmark/2007-2008/densuper.htm I took a quick look at each of the clubs in the Danish leagues from the above link. I glanced through each of the rosters and paid equal attention to the grounds ( seating capacity) that the play in. Again, aside from the Canadians and the the occasional current or former Danish internationals ( eg.: Thomas Helveg, Stig Toefting) , there were only three marginal players who played in the Euro (Sionko, Alback and some czech defender). All are over thirty and all from the same club ( Atiba's club). The Danes have the benefit of the passport that allows the access to bigger clubs in Europe. In the case of Thomas Helveg he didn't go straight to Milan but through Udinese first. Their international players play mostly abroad. But again, we are not talking about their players here, we are talking about the collectivity of the 12 clubs that make the Danish superliga . A league whereby more than half the clubs play in grounds that are smaller than Saputo stadium and a few in grounds smaller than Swangard stadium. Only two have facilities larger than BMO field. Given that the three clubs in canada are collectively play to something like 90-95% capacity what does that tell you about soccer revenues comming in Canada versus denmark. They have TV deal in Denmark, but how much is that worth in country of 5 Million compared to what you potentially fetch in market of 300 million people. This is not rocket science: 1) Quality of product is equal to talent ( domestic and foreign) 2) Foreign talent is bought. Can we agree that far 3) Whose in better position to buy foreign talent? The entities who who own MLS clubs ( almost all have net worth of over a billion)and sell more tickets? or the tiny clubs in Denmark. http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tournament/players/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Those are some pretty interesting stats, Freekick. Since Gordon brought Russia into the discussion lets compare their stats with Denmark's. Even not counting the Russian national team players, 8 players in the tournament from 7 different nations played on Russian clubs. 10 Russian clubs had players in the tournament including smaller clubs like Tom Tomsk, Amkar Perm and Rubin Kazan. The foreign players alone came from 5 different Russian clubs and except for Spartak mostly smaller clubs. Denmark in contrast had three players in the tournament all from the same club FC Copenhagen. Russia in total had 30 players in the tournament which was the 5th most of any league and pretty much corresponds with where UEFA currently ranks them (they had more than France which is probably due to so many of the France national team players playing abroad). Denmark's 3 players put it at a tie for places 18 to 21 with 4 other teams, exactly where the UEFA league rankings puts them. I am not saying that for certain players Denmark isn't a decent league to get some experience and develop in (although I have been very disappointed in Atiba's development over the past couple of years) and get scouted by better leagues. However, the Danish league is a mediocre development league not the high level, highly competitive league that Ceres see in his fantasy world. As such I don't think anyone who is a fan the Danish league has much ground to stand on when he disparages MLS. I happen to be a fan of German soccer as well and I am disappointed Gerba did not stay there in the 2nd Bundesliga. This is not because the 2nd Bundesliga is necessarily a better league than MLS but because he would have a lot more opportunity to advance his career there mostly because a lot more teams would notice him. I was even happy when he transferred to the 3rd division in Germany for the same reason. I have watched a lot of 3rd division games and it is definitely a lower level of play than MLS or the Scandanavian leagues but if he did well he would get noticed there a lot quicker than he would in either MLS or Scandanavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick But again, we are not talking about their players here, we are talking about the collectivity of the 12 clubs that make the Danish superliga . A league whereby more than half the clubs play in grounds that are smaller than Saputo stadium and a few in grounds smaller than Swangard stadium. Only two have facilities larger than BMO field. Given that the three clubs in canada are collectively play to something like 90-95% capacity what does that tell you about soccer revenues comming in Canada versus denmark. They have TV deal in Denmark, but how much is that worth in country of 5 Million compared to what you potentially fetch in market of 300 million people. This is not rocket science: 1) Quality of product is equal to talent ( domestic and foreign) 2) Foreign talent is bought. Can we agree that far 3) Whose in better position to buy foreign talent? The entities who who own MLS clubs ( almost all have net worth of over a billion)and sell more tickets? or the tiny clubs in Denmark. http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tournament/players/index.html When we are talking money, then how big is the MLS TV deal ?... The new danish deal is as written elsewhere US$ 63 million a year... when we are talking about buying/selling players, then how much is really going on in the MLS ?... and how much $$ do they really get by selling players to European teams ??.. Here is the list of bigger Danish Superliga transfers in this 2008/09 summer transfer window with a month to go (unfortunately most of the transfer fees are undisclosed) : Simon KjærDen U19 NT, FC Midtjylland --> Palermo (fee US$ 6.3m) Oluwafemi Ajilore, Nigeria, FC Midtjylland --> Groningen (US$ 5.2m) Jonas Borring (OB Odense --> FC Midtjylland (US$ 4.4m) Jon Jönsson, Sweden, Toulouse FC --> Brøndby (US$ 2m) Emil Lyng, Den U19, AGF Aarhus --> Lille, (US$ 850k + more later) Nando Rafael, Germany, B. Mönchengladbach --> AGF Aarhus (US$ 800k) Martin Fribrock, Sweden, Halmstads BK --> Esbjerg (US$ 830k) Magnus Troest, Den U21 NT, FC Midtjylland --> Parma (US$ 800k) Gunnar Heiðar Torvaldsson, Iceland, Hannover 96 --> Esbjerg (US$ 300k) Top Unknown : Michael Beauchamp, Aus 17 caps, FC Nürnberg --> AaB Aalborg (fee ?) Filip Marcic, Croatia, HNK Rijeka --> FC Midtjylland (fee ?) Georges Ndoum, Cameroon U23 NT, MSV Duisburg--> AC Horsens (fee ?) Patrice Bernier, Canada, Kaiserslautern --> FC Nordsjælland (fee ?) Brian Priske, Den 24 caps Club Brugge --> Vejle BK (fee ?) Hélder Cabral, Portugal, Estrela da Amadora --> Vejle BK (fee ?) John Mosquera, Colombia U20 NT, Werder Bremen --> SønderjyskE (fee ?) Top 5 Free transfers : Michael Silberbauer, FC København --> FC Utrecht Kasper Bøgelund, Den 15 caps, Mönchengladbach --> AaB Aalborg Björn Sandro Runström, Sweden, Fulham --> OB Odense Dennis Cagara, Hertha Berlin --> FC Nordsjælland Michaël Murcy, France, Esbjerg --> Clermont Foot --- If we look at last season : Top 25 Danish Superliga transfers in the 2007/08 season : Tobias Linderoth, Swe 69 caps, FC København --> Galatasaray (US$ 5.5m) Brede Hangeland, Nor 41 caps, FC København --> Fulham (US$ 5m) Simon Poulsen, Den 3 caps, FC Midtjylland --> AZ Alkmaar (US$ 5m) Rade Prica, Swe 14 caps, AaB Aalborg --> Sunderland (US$ 4m) Ulrik Laursen, Den 4 caps, OB Odense --> FC København (US$ 3.9m) Morten Nordstrand, FC Nordsjælland --> FC København (US$ 3.2m) Kristian Bak Nielsen, FC Midtjylland --> SC Heerenveen (US$ 3.2m) Zdenek Pospech, Czech 5 caps, Sparta Praha --> FC København (US$ 3m) Baye Djiby Fall, Senegal, Randers FC --> Al Ain (US$ 2.5m) Samuel Holmén, Swe 4 caps, Elfsborg --> Brøndby (US$ 2.5m) Kris Stadsgaard, FC Nordsjælland --> Reggina (US$ 2.4m) Ken Fagerberg, Swe U21 NT, Örgryte --> FC Midtjylland (US$ 2.2m) Stefán Gíslason, Iceland 17 caps, Lyn Oslo --> Brøndby (US$ 2m) Mikkel Thygesen, 1 cap, Mönchengladbach --> FC Midtjylland(US$ 1.9m) Njogu Demba-Nyrén, Sweden/Gambia, Esbjerg --> SK Brann (US$ 1.9m) Rasmus Würtz, Den 8 caps, AaB Aalborg --> FC København (US$ 1.7m) Dennis Sørensen, FC Midtjylland --> Energie Cottbus (US$ 1.7m) Mike Tullberg, AGF Aarhus --> Reggina (US$ 1.6m) Esben Hansen, Den 1 cap, OB Odense --> Kaiserslautern (US$ 1.6m) Baye Djiby Fall, Senegal, Al Ain --> OB Odense (US$ 1.6m) Max Von Schlebrügge, Swe 8 caps, Anderlecht --> Brøndby (US$ 1.3m) Dioh Williams, Liberia 2 caps, BK Häcken --> AGF Aarhus (US$ 1.3m) Christopher Poulsen, Viborg FF --> FC Midtjylland (US$ 1.3m) Anders Due, League NT 3 caps, Vitesse --> AaB Aalborg (US$ 1m) Fredrik Berglund, Swe 12 caps, FC København --> IF Elfsborg (US$ 1m) Top 10 Unknown : Libor Sionko, Czech R. 25 caps, Rangers FC --> FC København (fee ?) "Junior" , Brazil, Malmø FF --> FC København (fee ?) Christian Bolaños, Costa Rica 18 caps, Deportivo Saprissa --> OB Odense (fee ?) Maros Klimpl, Slovakia, 17 caps, FC Baník Ostrava --> FC Midtjylland (fee ?) Peter Madsen, Den 13 caps, 1.FC Köln --> Brøndby (fee ?) Atle Roar Håland, Nor 1 cap, IK Start --> OB Odense (fee ?) Robert Arzumanyan, Armenia 24 caps, FC Pyunik --> Randers FC (fee ?) Marc Nygaard, Den 6 caps, Queens Park Rangers --> Randers FC (fee ?) Alain Behi, Ivory coast 5 caps, PAS Giannina --> Randers FC (fee ?) Lee Nguyen, USA 3 caps, PSV Eindhoven --> Randers FC (fee ?) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I happen to be a fan of German soccer as well and I am disappointed Gerba did not stay there in the 2nd Bundesliga. This is not because the 2nd Bundesliga is necessarily a better league than MLS but because he would have a lot more opportunity to advance his career there mostly because a lot more teams would notice him. I was even happy when he transferred to the 3rd division in Germany for the same reason. I have watched a lot of 3rd division games and it is definitely a lower level of play than MLS or the Scandanavian leagues but if he did well he would get noticed there a lot quicker than he would in either MLS or Scandanavia. come on... Except for his first season in Sweden, Ali Gerba has failed making a good enough impression in Sweden, Denmark and Norway to get his stay extended... and in Germany a 3rd level team did not want to keep him when they got promoted... It has nothing to do with Gerba being unlucky. He has just not been good enough I'm sorry to say. I'm just being honest and ther is no reason to get so offended. AGF Aarhus, the club that I support, barely escaped relegation by finishing 10 out of the 12 teams in the Superliga last season and have just signed Nando Rafael from Borussia Mönchengladbach as their reinforcement in attack. He is perhaps no big Star player, but he is 24 and has played more than a 100 games in the Bundesliga, so you tell me why a team higher in the table then should be interested in signing a forward like Ali Gerba to use him as a regular starter ?... It would not make much sense.. As for the rest of your comments, then it funny how ppl like Free kick and you regard me as a troll, because unlike you, I do not get personal. I'm just writing a few facts and figures and what the players are saying... that training sessions and league games are more intense and competitive in Denmark in compare with MLS....It's not my opinion, but the players opinion, so ther is really no reason to attack me for beliving the players more than I belive your personal opinion on this subject.. As for the arguement from Free kick that the Danish league must be of lower quality than MLS and smaller financially because ther are only 5.5 million Danes, then it's like arguing that China must be better at Hockey than Canada, simply because the population is so much bigger.... Ther is probably a reason why the oldest club in mainland Europe is Danish and according to 2006/07 figures 38% of the male population in Denmark (age 5 to 35) play soccer and ther are 1,600 soccer clubs in the country playing at 11 different promotion/relegation levels from the Superliga to Serie 6... You also have to consider that each club got several teams playing a many different levels. the club I support AGF, got a team in the Superliga, 2nd division, Serie 3, U18 Liga, U18-1, U16 Liga, U16-1, U16-2, U14-1, U14-2, U13-1, U12-1, U12-2, U12-3, U10, U9, U8, U7, U6 ... and then of course also a few Old-Boys teams... In any case, if you and Free kick really think MLS is better financially as well as in most aspects of the game, then why do MLS players move to little Denmark then ??... It just doesnt make any sense. As for the $$ ...Danny Califf is now getting around US$ 650k a year playing in Denmark, I doubt a player like him would be able to get more than half playing in the MLS .... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I have to make a correction... The new danish League TV deal in not US$ 63 million a year... It's DKK 300 million (a bit more than US$ 63 million) this season, but then DKK 333 million (a bit more than US$ 70 million) a year starting next season.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigzTFC Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 This thread is about Gerba, not the Danish League. You've made it quite clear that one of our national team strikers is a sub-par player who could be playing in a sub-par league. In case you didn't know, MLS is Canada's top league and Gerba is one of our top players and the forum and thread are about those topics. WHAT THE great DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN? Saying Califf wouldn't get the same money in MLS is stating the obvious....its a cap system. Thats like saying the cuban health care system is **** because they're underpaid. Once MLS raises the cap, better players will come in. Better infrastructure is coming in terms of stadiums already. We love our team and our league, its a work in process. But 5 years down the road the MLS will be a top 10 league in the world. It may not be there yet, but it will be. Hopefully, there won't be a debate about the Danish league anymore and we can send a guy like Adrian Cann over and talk about that. Speaking of which, does that mean USL is better than MLS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Guys, we have a poster from Denmark who posts here to inform us about Canadian players in Denmark. Whether in this thread or others, show him some courtesy. Ceres, thanks for the updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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