Gian-Luca Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/ From the article: "He's more upset that this past Sunday Edu dressed for a U.S. squad that featured only six MLS players, playing about half an hour in an exhibition against Argentina, but missing Toronto's game in Houston. Carver points out that Houston stars Brian Ching and Ricardo Clark have played for the national team in the past but weren't called up for Sunday's game, so they played against TFC. He thinks the U.S. national team should have done TFC the same favour with Edu. But since they didn't, Carver came up with a new rule. No national team games for anyone except for FIFA match dates. Period. Yes, Carver realizes that all MLS teams lose players for international games, but he suspects that the CSA and U.S soccer don't respect TFC the way they do more established clubs, leading them to borrow TFC players more liberally whether or not they plan to use them. "I've got no interest in what happens outside of here," Carver said. "If it's not an international date, I don't care who it is. They're not going. This has hurt Toronto more than anyone else in the MLS."" Personally I think Carver is out to lunch on this, he's sounding more like Rodney Dangerfield than a coach. The US has no obligation not to call Maurice Edu because they haven't also called Ricardo Clark and Brian Ching either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Also on this topic: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/440894 So it's not enough that we played Brennan for 45 minutes, apparently the national team has to play Brennan the entire game when he gets called or Carver will be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Personally think TFC are well within their rights to withhold players on non-FIFA dates. Do we really want to miss out on the playoffs because of that? Life would be much easier, however, if MLS started a bit earlier and finished a bit later so international dates could be avoided in scheduling terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Well exactly, I think the complaints should really be directed at the league, not the national teams. When clubs don't play for 16 days and then play on the same day as international dates, its not the CSA or the USSF who are at fault here. However what I don't buy is the argument that when the club releases a player for international duty, he has to start & play for 90 minutes or otherwise the club will throw a tantrum. We've seen that with the Ede & Brennan situations (even though Brennan didn't miss any TFC games!) What if Houston & TFC both threaten to throw fits if Onstad & Sutton don't each play 90 minutes when released for the same match, is Mitchell supposed to be able to satisfy them both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Good for Carver. He should be making an issue of this. GL is correct. The problem is with the league, not the respective NTs. BUT the only way to make this an issue that ever gets addressed is to kick up a BIG stink about it and smear everyone involved. If no one says anything about it, nothing will ever get done about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Well exactly, I think the complaints should really be directed at the league, not the national teams. When clubs don't play for 16 days and then play on the same day as international dates, its not the CSA or the USSF who are at fault here. However what I don't buy is the argument that when the club releases a player for international duty, he has to start & play for 90 minutes or otherwise the club will throw a tantrum. We've seen that with the Ede & Brennan situations (even though Brennan didn't miss any TFC games!) What if Houston & TFC both threaten to throw fits if Onstad & Sutton don't each play 90 minutes when released for the same match, is Mitchell supposed to be able to satisfy them both? Yeah, the league needs to get their act together . I dont have a clue what the reason is for not repecting fifa dates when setting up the schedule. Moreso, as you said, given that there are already plenty of holes ( off weeks ) in the schedule for every team. I am at a complete loss as to why they cannot move these off-weeks ( for all teams) right into the FiFA dates. There really aren't that many FIFA dates in the calandar that run through the MLS season to begin with. And unlike Europe, there is a ton a flexibility in North america with the fixtures; you have a 4-5 months off season, you dont have anywhere near the number continental fixtures they have in Europe, and the cup ties are a fraction of what clubs in the rest of the world face. Its should be so very simple ( you would think) to divise a schedule that respects the FIFA dates. Furthermore, you would think that there is a financial reward to MLS in getting in line with the rest of the World. When league plays during FIFA dates, that means that a player like Beckham wont be around to come into some town that could use the boost in attendance or soccer buzz that he creates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Good for Carver. He should be making an issue of this. GL is correct. The problem is with the league, not the respective NTs. BUT the only way to make this an issue that ever gets addressed is to kick up a BIG stink about it and smear everyone involved. If no one says anything about it, nothing will ever get done about it. USL is the same way actually. I really would like to get an answer from someone in leagues offices and wish that someone in the media would press and seek answers to this. what is the thinking behind this: Does it stem from the typical american attitude or arrogance that that thumbs their noses and doesn't give flying fig about global rules and global organizations? Much like the views towards the United Nations in some US circles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick USL is the same way actually. I really would like to get an answer from someone in leagues offices and wish that someone in the media would press and seek answers to this. what is the thinking behind this: Does it stem from the typical american attitude or arrogance that that thumbs their noses and doesn't give flying fig about global rules and global organizations? Much like the views towards the United Nations in some US circles? Isn't it because they have a set timeframe in which to play games? Once you get into October, you're touch and go with the northern cities for being able to play, aren't you? Also, scheduling would also be an issue for all the non-SSS out there. It's not like they can just re-schedule on a whim when it is being used by other professional teams. I'm not defending the standpoint, just giving a possible explanation. I'd like to see what was done with the Championship a few years ago whereby if a team is missing 3 or more players due to international callups, the game gets rescheduled. I think that would be the best for all parties concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre as little as a few weeks ago ( May 1-17), TFC had one of those early season bye weeks. Their scheduled game two weeks later against LA on May 31st, conflicted directly with the FIFA calandar and as result a sizable contingent of talent was away on international duty. With the missing talent, you had a game that was sorely missing a lot of quality and I dont see how that is good way to promote the game. Since no one is renting BMO field and football season in the US is four months away, I dont see where the scheduling conflicts lie. As far as scheduling window for northern climates. Its may not be ideal to play soccer in Boston or Toronto in October and November but the fixture schedule is hardly overcrowded in the summer. Most of the time they play once a week. How many times does it happen in europe where you have no midweek games? So why cant they crowd 2-3 more games in July? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpetzz Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 perhaps tfc should start taking their complaints to MLS and start a revolution within mls that gets the league to come in line with the rest of the world that doesn't play league games on the same day as world cup qualifiers..THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST STEP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themodelcitizen Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 remember the harmonized international calendar blatter and co. were bleating on about in the early 2000s? Surely someone could've sat down for a few days and come up with one that satisfied all the major leagues (and/including MLS)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick as little as a few weeks ago ( May 1-17), TFC had one of those early season bye weeks. Their scheduled game two weeks later against LA on May 31st, conflicted directly with the FIFA calandar and as result a sizable contingent of talent was away on international duty. With the missing talent, you had a game that was sorely missing a lot of quality and I dont see how that is good way to promote the game. Since no one is renting BMO field and football season in the US is four months away, I dont see where the scheduling conflicts lie. As far as scheduling window for northern climates. Its may not be ideal to play soccer in Boston or Toronto in October and November but the fixture schedule is hardly overcrowded in the summer. Most of the time they play once a week. How many times does it happen in europe where you have no midweek games? So why cant they crowd 2-3 more games in July? I agree. You're preaching to the choir here, man. I just remember Garber addressing these issues awhile ago and this is what he came up with. I just wanted to emphasize the fact that rescheduling games might be a little harder for those teams that don't have their own stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick as little as a few weeks ago ( May 1-17), TFC had one of those early season bye weeks. Their scheduled game two weeks later against LA on May 31st, conflicted directly with the FIFA calandar and as result a sizable contingent of talent was away on international duty. With the missing talent, you had a game that was sorely missing a lot of quality and I dont see how that is good way to promote the game. Since no one is renting BMO field and football season in the US is four months away, I dont see where the scheduling conflicts lie. As far as scheduling window for northern climates. Its may not be ideal to play soccer in Boston or Toronto in October and November but the fixture schedule is hardly overcrowded in the summer. Most of the time they play once a week. How many times does it happen in europe where you have no midweek games? So why cant they crowd 2-3 more games in July? I agree. You're preaching to the choir here, man. I just remember Garber addressing these issues awhile ago and this is what he came up with. I just wanted to emphasize the fact that rescheduling games might be a little harder for those teams that don't have their own stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I don't think Canada plays a whole lot of games on non-fifa days except soem B Team camps/games. The US does however, so I am pretty sure that MLS head Office will be setting Mr. Carver straight should TFC ever follow through on the threat. More importantly however, is what impact will this have on TFC in terms of recruiting/acquiring fringe nats for either the US or Canada? Or internationals from other CA and Carib nations? If Mr. Edu's chances of making the US team for a WC are compromised (hypothetically) because he can't make the non-Fifa dates and the rest of his MLS "also on the bubble" competitors are, how long does said Mr. Edu want to play for Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I don't think Canada plays a whole lot of games on non-fifa days except soem B Team camps/games. The US does however, so I am pretty sure that MLS head Office will be setting Mr. Carver straight should TFC ever follow through on the threat. More importantly however, is what impact will this have on TFC in terms of recruiting/acquiring fringe nats for either the US or Canada? Or internationals from other CA and Carib nations? If Mr. Edu's chances of making the US team for a WC are compromised (hypothetically) because he can't make the non-Fifa dates and the rest of his MLS "also on the bubble" competitors are, how long does said Mr. Edu want to play for Toronto. Funny you should mention that...I had been thinking earlier that if Carver was to strictly adhere to this rule (not that I'm expecting he will), both Edu and Marvell Wynne would completely miss out on the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Carver may hold the chips on this one if he can keep his nerve. And I don't think it would take more than one or two other clubs in MLS to follow suit before this immature practice by the league (not respecting FIFA dates in their league schedule) is re-examined. I don't think for a lot of players this would be a big deal. Not something they need to worry about. They're playing in MLS because that's their quality. Their selection to either the Canadian or USA teams is often debatable and would be a non-issue were they playing anywhere else but MLS. They simply wouldn't be released unless it was entirely</u> to the clubs benefit. If Edu wants to be traded to Salt Lake to play football because Toronto won't release him on non-FIFA dates what do you do? Get what you can for him because if the kid thinks he's going to play his way on the US NT in one of MLS many hot soccer markets like Salt Lake, KC, and Columbus then the kid needs a lot of learning yet. I'm sure the behind the scenes political pressure from MLS HQ over a move like this would be intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 If summer leagues in cold climates like Russia and Scandanavia can honour the international dates there is no reason MLS can. This is the same type of posturing and complaining we heard from Mo when he tried successfully to get the TFC Canadian quota reduced. If Carver's intention is to get the MLS to honour the international calendar I am all for it. If his intention is to withhold players from international duty and influence the national team coaches roster decisions then he is way out of line. His complaint about Brennan's playing time is ridiculous. Most teams are happy when their players only play one half. Enough playing time to keep him in game shape but he won't be tired for the next match and there is half the risk of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 It used to be Canada that got shafted by foreign clubs not releasing our player to play for Canada in WCQ matches. Clubs always controlled things. Now, the US is forcing Toronto to release players, so it's a country controlling things. Either way, it's always Canada or a Canadian team that gets the short end of the stick. As for Sutton being called for Canada and not being used, so what. He was there as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSamurai Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Free kick July? Theirs like a game every 3-4 days in July as it is! I want to know what genius decided to slot in BOTh friendlies AND the Champions League Qualifiers in July. Atleast 1 friendly should've been in August if not in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 MLS has enough stadia to refute the argument that scheduling time frames. This playing games the same day as international matches is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Good on Craver for addressing the issue. I agree with the fact that MLS is immature for not respecting the FIFA Calendar, after all it is fleshed out to 2014! I like the rule of rescheduling games around the 3 players called up. It might take a little work but hey there are always weather postponements also. That stretch of 9 games starting 28-June is a monster! Hope you are not an All-Star 'cause you get 10 games in 31 days! I can't wait to see the injuries pile up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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