Jump to content

Australia - Canada , May 23


jonny63

Recommended Posts

So you really think that their are BETTER players out there to be descovered and that the only training that they have had has come from the current coach? Let's face it the Women's team has been a bunch of overachievers and they deserve credit for their accomplishment but unless there are sytemic changes with the structure of CSA it really won't matter who coaches (picks) the team. A coach is not God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 65
  • Created
  • Last Reply
quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

So you really think that their are BETTER players out there to be descovered and that the only training that they have had has come from the current coach? Let's face it the Women's team has been a bunch of overachievers and they deserve credit for their accomplishment but unless there are sytemic changes with the structure of CSA it really won't matter who coaches (picks) the team. A coach is not God.

mmm and thats why the Chelsea coach was fired he lost he was gone.. oh here in the depths of the Amazon ...Paysandu just brought in a new coach ... cause the old one did not finish first, you have to be rigorous and demand results.

Terpfan you really are losing all logical credibility in your understanding of the game beyond womens rec in Suburban Winnipeg, and say that with all due respect to those programs, the game is a business the WNT is a business its time the players and coach stood up and took responsiblity, right now I would bench a few of the "stars" and look to play some of the team depth.

Pelerud if he going to lead this ship has to be looking for some caulk to put in the holes of the ship and shore up the results coming in the Olypics...results which are critical to federal Sport Canada funding based on results.

Or is Even content to lose and see the program lost for five years till a new coach can build it up.... who really thinks Lang and Sinclair are staying after the Olypics ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chelsea finished as the second best team in Europe, and that wasn't good enough so they fire the coach. In Italy, Inter have won their third championship in a row, and the consensus is that the coach is terrible and has to go. At Real Madrid, standard procedure is to fire the coach after winning a championship, because they didn't win it convincingly enough. With very few exceptions, there are only two kinds of coaches in the world: those who have just been hired and those who need to be fired.

What will happen when Canada gets a new coach? The team will fail to a win a game, and everyone will scream for the coach's head on a stick. And the coach after that... same thing. And after that... same thing.

So let me be the first to say that whoever replaces Pellerud completely sucks, is destroying the program, and has to go. There, now we are finally making some real progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Trillium it's nice to know that not only are you knowledgable about all things soccer you've even been evaluating my knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of the game. My experience is that success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan. When I was successful and everyone thought I was a brilliant coach is was because I had more talent than the other teams and I didn't mess it up. When I was less successful and people were calling for my head (not that anyone was lined up) it was because the team couldn't chew gum and walk at the same time. In fact my best coaching job was when I took a team that didn't figure to win a game and we won half of them. Pellerud is simply not as bad as many people think. He will land on his feet after Canada lets him go. If we blame him for the current state of affairs then we certainly have to give him credit for getting the team to a world ranking of 9th. It is much too simplistic to think that merely a change in coaches will immediately result in success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trillium you state on one hand the WNT is a business than on the other hand you state the WNT needs Sports Canada. I suggest to you the WNT due to the CSA is not a business. The CSA is not run like a business but at least the WNT on it's own is trying w/in the box it is trying to get out of. If the CSA was a business or like other NSO's, they wouldn't need to rely on the soccer youth on Canada paying a great part of the CSA's bills!!!

Up to Teck which the WNT went out & got, the WNT has survived off Sports Canada, COC & Mr. Kerfoot. Yes, we can give credit to the CSA for coughing up $150K last season but not rest.

The WNT has already exceeded their past benchmarks for getting good $ out of Sports Canada & COC for the coming phase. Sadly, as history shows, the WNT will get more from them & less from the CSA. What sort of business is that???

The CSA is a NSO in survival mode w/out a business plan or business like leadership to get the big show going so soccer in Canada gets on the media radar & into the culture of Canada. I still can't believe that Canada has a soccer membership (850K) that is 85% youth & they basically disappear after that & take their money w/ them. Hmmmmm, sounds like seasonal programs vs having clubs who families in the sport for generations.

As terpfan68 alludes or maybe it's me thinking this but there is basic national structure for the game in Canada. Sadly, what structure there is comes w/ a lot of politics at any level you choose. Also, not a whole lot of programs buying into a national structure as Canada has no clubs other than a group of Pro & Semi-Pro. Canadian soccer is still in a amatuer mode w/ no amateur club structure due to the NSO leadership that prefers a country of programs. Programs who do their own thing vs being part of some national development pathway in a national structure. Even if our NSO was to look at another national sport & copy a structure we would be better off but Suits don't think that way & it's been the same since day 1.

terpfan68, your coaching experience is so true of how people look at youth sports. Actually I had the bad news bears soccer team too but had to watch politics kill their team. I went off & started the club's WP & interesting enough is that I have some of these bears showing up in their off season to train w/ the program.

I think there have been positive changes in the NT WP in this current era. Some players have stated publicly that the current structure has alot to do w/ Even & the team he has created in the WP plus the support he has gotten outside for the program. Sure some might think the Caps are too close to the program but at least they have developed somewhat of a development pathway w/ some financial support that is a better structure than the past. It's a great start don't you think???

For me, any athlete in Canada that has come up the amateur ranks to best in club, school, provincial, national or Olympic deserves full credit for their sacrifice & nothing but positive fan support. Also, credit goes to their families & supporters as well. Truly, the number that makes it up the levels is very, very small when compared to the overall picture. Some may be gifted but most that make it up the ladder have a love & desire for their sport, worked hard & long to get there. Some even leave Canada to get development in a structure elsewhere as the Canadian structure isn't the best. The whole process is ongoing & envolving until life kicks in or being pro happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

Chelsea finished as the second best team in Europe, and that wasn't good enough so they fire the coach. In Italy, Inter have won their third championship in a row, and the consensus is that the coach is terrible and has to go. At Real Madrid, standard procedure is to fire the coach after winning a championship, because they didn't win it convincingly enough. With very few exceptions, there are only two kinds of coaches in the world: those who have just been hired and those who need to be fired.

What will happen when Canada gets a new coach? The team will fail to a win a game, and everyone will scream for the coach's head on a stick. And the coach after that... same thing. And after that... same thing.

So let me be the first to say that whoever replaces Pellerud completely sucks, is destroying the program, and has to go. There, now we are finally making some real progress.

Heh heh, I like it :D!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

Chelsea finished as the second best team in Europe, and that wasn't good enough so they fire the coach. In Italy, Inter have won their third championship in a row, and the consensus is that the coach is terrible and has to go. At Real Madrid, standard procedure is to fire the coach after winning a championship, because they didn't win it convincingly enough. With very few exceptions, there are only two kinds of coaches in the world: those who have just been hired and those who need to be fired.

What will happen when Canada gets a new coach? The team will fail to a win a game, and everyone will scream for the coach's head on a stick. And the coach after that... same thing. And after that... same thing.

So let me be the first to say that whoever replaces Pellerud completely sucks, is destroying the program, and has to go. There, now we are finally making some real progress.

I'll be #2 then :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by AlanDouglas

Chelsea finished as the second best team in Europe, and that wasn't good enough so they fire the coach. In Italy, Inter have won their third championship in a row, and the consensus is that the coach is terrible and has to go. At Real Madrid, standard procedure is to fire the coach after winning a championship, because they didn't win it convincingly enough. With very few exceptions, there are only two kinds of coaches in the world: those who have just been hired and those who need to be fired.

What will happen when Canada gets a new coach? The team will fail to a win a game, and everyone will scream for the coach's head on a stick. And the coach after that... same thing. And after that... same thing.

So let me be the first to say that whoever replaces Pellerud completely sucks, is destroying the program, and has to go. There, now we are finally making some real progress.

Every coach also comes with a best before date and the sports world is littered with Hall of Fame Championship winning coaches who simply were not able to evolve with the game.

Evan Pellerud has done great things for the WNT program. But he is unable to evolve along with the women's game. Call it the Law of the Retarding Lead: Pellerud has had great success and invested so much into a certain style of play, that he can not let go and move on as is needed.

It is time for someone else to move the program forward because it is clearly stagnating under Pellerud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Gordon. Another along the same line is the mashup you get by mixing "build it up and burn it down" with "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

"Qualifying for the WWC and Olympics despite everything." Which one do you find a more impressive notch in Pellerud's cap - beating #73 Jamaica to qualify for the WWC, or getting to the Olympics by Rubi Sandoval gifting us one against a Mexican team we've lost to 1 time in 15 games?

Two weeks later, same story. Another dodgy game gone by and the only thing off the keyboards of Kerfoot's cheerleader squad is slagging posters here and blaming the East. Yawn. Nary a SINGLE mention of the game. Not sure if or how much you guy's actually follow women's soccer in Canada, but you might want to check it out sometime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will be a happy man when Pellerud is gone. His system is flawed. A new coach (assuming the CSA gets somebody that knows soccer) will get some new players to replace those who pack it in and those who fail to do or are unable to do what he/she asks from them. We have talent in Canada, we just need to know how to recognize it in young girls. A new coach with a total-soccer knowledge will find the talent. Playing the game the right way has nothing to do with money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dasovic would fit nicely for the ladies.

But alas he is making money in a real organization with real success.

Maybe he likes ladies and would like to be listened to for once.

Like to see Dasovic take the senior men for a run soon too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Upon what criteria are you passing such favourable coaching judgement so soon on Nick Dasovic? Have you seen anything in the way of results achieved by him at the international level? Results achieved seem to play an important role in your assessment of other coaches? I like Nick, have known him a while so this is nothing personal against him and eventually he may well make an excellent MNT or WNT head coach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dasovic? There's an interesting thought. If you're thinking long terms future, maybe. I don't expect that the man who eventually replaces Mitch will have had any senior international coaching experience either so if Dasovic can build up a solid reputation with TFC he could be a candidate.

But club coaching and international coaching are two very different animals. Especially for Canada.

Not that I look for it at all but it's kind of surprising how little we see in the media about the WNT going to China. How long until the tourny starts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Richard

And someone else will, after the Olympics when Pellerud's contract expires. Kudos to Pellerud and his team for qualifying for the WWC and the Olympics despite everything.

Despite everything??!!! Canada NOT making the Olympics and NOT qualifying for the WWC used to be headline news. Now it's an epic story if they make it??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Well Trillium it's nice to know that not only are you knowledgable about all things soccer you've even been evaluating my knowledge (or lack of knowledge) of the game.

Terpfan you really are losing all logical credibility in your understanding of the game beyond womens rec in Suburban Winnipeg, and say that with all due respect to those programs, the game is a business the WNT is a business its time the players and coach stood up and took responsiblity, right now I would bench a few of the "stars" and look to play some of the team depth.

Pelerud if he going to lead this ship has to be looking for some caulk to put in the holes of the ship and shore up the results coming in the Olypics...results which are critical to federal Sport Canada funding based on results.

Or is Even content to lose and see the program lost for five years till a new coach can build it up.... who really thinks Lang and Sinclair are staying after the Olypics ?

No Terpfan what I was saying in relation to your other posts was the game at the WNT level is a business, and the if the team does poorly at the Olympics the funding that the CSA gets from Sport Canada ...which is a results based system will be cut in the next development cycle. Given the general expectation .. ( echoed by you and others ) that Pelerud will not be renewed after his current contract is up...you have to wonder what a lame duck coach might do in his final acts with a program ?

If it comes a cropper in China he exits saying it was all planned this way .. the fact the WNT program will be under funded by lack of results only plays into his legacy...see they will say Pelerud was good he had a team playing games etc.... the reality is the CSA Technical Director needs to step in a closely monitor what is going on and if its not on course to succeed in China he needs to make changes... and surely we all agree the National Technical Director is responsible to contral the National Coaches dont we ?

In anycase Terpfan I have not commented on your coaching skills just your credibilty in terms of the WNT and its requirement to have standards of performance .... If i can summarize it you have said the players are not good enough... Australia is sport nation so they should beat us ..do better ... oh and the girls are family so its all really very good under Pelerud ! Did I get the sense of what you have said wrong ?

Of course my view is the talent is there on the team or within the National pool of players or those who could be drawn in even at this date to turn the team around. The stars Lang, and Sinclair need to produce or be benched in favor of different players and surely Pelerud as a National coach with at least 50 players in the potential pool as others in the pipeline to step up and pressure the stars....one striker in game getting hot and on a roll and you have the apparent missing ingredient to scoring success.

I of course think the team has "heart" problem and has had one for very very long time, I do not believe Pelerud gets the best out of his players and he has not developed a Lang or Sinclair beyond playing a one dimensional game.

Now I happened to watched game between Tuna Lusa and Remo women on Sunday morning, they play in the Para State league in the Amazon of Brasil, the young female coach for Tuna blasted her team between halves pointing out the failures to "domina na balla" and to "toca na ball no gramada" funny they put the ball on the ground in the second half and won the game going away two to one.

The game is changing, countries like Brasil and fielding womens club level teams and playing in organized state leagues...on quality pitches, the game on the weekend was played in enclosed small stadia, you could get cold beer and probably 75 people were watching, none of whom looked like moms or dads but rather were young women and men cheering and jeering the play.

It was hot about 31 degrees and the game was played at a good pace, with limited substition rules per FIFA being used. Injured players removed quickly on stretchers, quality uniforms for both teams with sponsor names. After the game most players carried there cleats in plastic bags no fancy team kit bags... four referees per FIFA.

A enjoyable game in friendly atmosphere with players taking professional approach, the typical dives occured and calls were made and not made as is normal.

The womens game in Brasil is in good shape if this is and example in one of the poorer states in a poor city, the south will be producing even more talent.

We need to get to work in Canada and advance the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"if the team does poorly at the Olympics the funding that the CSA gets from Sport Canada ...which is a results based system will be cut in the next development cycle."

1. The funding from SC & COC will be increased not decreased as the WNT made it the Olympics.

2. The funding will contiune to increase depending on the WNT getting out of their Group & into the playdowns.

3. Each season WNT Team Officials sit down w/ SC & COC to go through their results & present to these entities the CSA WP budget which shows they get basically no money to be competitive w/

4. The majority of the WNT $ comes from SC & COC. Not from the CSA!!!

"We need to get to work in Canada and advance the game."

Well said & good observations on the Brazil game. Would be beneficial if in Canada we didn't wait on the NSO & PSO to make the culture & structure to funnel players to the top. IMO better soccer starts w/ youth clubs being real clubs vs seasonal programs/academies. They need to change the face of the game in rec & high performance now!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

If we blame him for the current state of affairs then we certainly have to give him credit for getting the team to a world ranking of 9th. It is much too simplistic to think that merely a change in coaches will immediately result in success.

Um, yeah, that's what alot of people have been saying. He took the women to the next step, but now he cannot take them any further. He helped increase the fitness levels of the women and raised the bar. Now the bar needs to be raised at the skill and tactical level, and Pellerud is not the right man for that job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Um, yeah, that's what alot of people have been saying. He took the women to the next step, but now he cannot take them any further. He helped increase the fitness levels of the women and raised the bar. Now the bar needs to be raised at the skill and tactical level, and Pellerud is not the right man for that job.

Well said. He should have been replaced long ago. We can blame the CSA for their inaction, the players for not speaking up and him for not acknowledging his limitations. Before he took over some 8 years ago, the team lacked direction and instruction, any half decent coach that would have taken over back then would have resulted in improvement, not just Mr. Pellerud.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ But it was Mr. Pellerud who took over eight years ago (your number) and he did effect substantial improvement during his term. He may well not be the right person to take the team to the next level, few national team programs go longer than eight years with the same coach. Furthermore no rational person expects anybody in his position to satisfy all the people all the time (including you, fan and superfan), but at least give him credit for what you and others acknowledge he has achieved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ But it was Mr. Pellerud who took over eight years ago (your number) and he did effect substantial improvement during his term. He may well not be the right person to take the team to the next level, few national team programs go longer than eight years with the same coach. Furthermore no rational person expects anybody in his position to satisfy all the people all the time (including you, fan and superfan), but at least give him credit for what you and others acknowledge he has achieved.

Until mid 2006 I used to hold Mr. Pellerud in high regard and I thought he was great. But then he started telling untruths. I also had the opportunity seeing his playing system from very close as being coached to players which showed to me how inappropriate it was. As a corollary when he cut Ms. Nonen, Hooper and Latham and it became evident he used the team for his benefit, that I lost all respect for the man. Nothing has changed since then except that now I know so much stuff about him that I wonder how he is still there. It infuriates me that in the end he screwed up the program and players alike. Right now, any change would be good, if for nothing else just for the sake of a change. In summary it is not so much his bad coaching, it is all the other stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Your dead on .. what Richard and others fail to note is Pelerud replaced a long line of part time barely paid expenses coaches, any view of him needs to be put in that context. What is shocking is that the CSA and its various technical directors during Peleruds term have failed to speak to him about his program in any public way.

And please Richard dont tell me they have in private or should only do it in private, its clear in the business of sport at the National level public discussion by those in charge and responsible needs to happen... even if the media does not know how to ask the tough questions the Technical Director has to ... and that has to happen now we have a new one, its imperative he review Peleruds program now and ensure that its the right plan going ahead in the next eight weeks.

As has been alluded to by others .. there will be a lot said once he is gone and some of the present players tell their stories without fear of retribution and ostracism by the "in clique". I just hope the new people at the top of the CSA, President, Technical Direcotor and Executive Director take to heart their responsiblitys both to the Association and its limited membership of the provincial associations, but more importantly to the athletes and their right to play in an open and transparent regime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"it became evident he used the team for his benefit"

You had better have hard, conclusive evidence if you insist on posting such statements on the web. And if you are unwilling to backup such statements then they are nothing but hot air and incredible. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Pellerud's coaching philosophy, it is a blatantly defamatory statement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...