Grizzly Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Paddy You make it sound like they are human rights workers in Africa. I respect our players that play for us but they are also professional athletes, have a pretty sweet life and do get paid for their national team appearances (a wage that may be less than their club wage but nevertheless to a regular person would be pretty significant). While one can always find an example of a player who had negative consequences of playing for Canada there are also more examples of players whose national team play furthered their careers sometimes leading to hundreds of thousands of dollars of extra income. We as fans have every right to criticize the players and hold them accountable. If we continue to lose and Mitchell gets fired it is the players fault. He has called the right players and employed tactics which while they might not be the ones I would employ could still have been effective and led to victories. It is the lack of execution on the part of the players that has led to defeats. Maybe this group of players needs a more motivational coach or someone like Hart who backs off entirely to perform but if so that is a flaw within themselves. It is Mitchell's job to get results with this team and if he can not I have no problem with him being fired but make no mistake where the responsibility lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly There is probably no such thing as perfect preparation, but there is definitely such thing as poor preparation. They get the latter and have every right in my mind to say 'later' to the whole mess - but they don't. They show up and play. So really, I think we are a long way off from blaming them. I don't know how many people on this board have actually played competative soccer, but you cannot just throw players together and expect results. It is a recipe for failure. Therefor, when the Canadian players echo this sentiment I don't think they are making excuses. They know from experience that they are (not intentinally - even I don't think the CSA would do that) being set up to fail. Our results speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Wow, our players are asking for better opposition but they aren't able to beat Iceland, SA "B" team, 10 men CR and Estonia....but those lost are all the fault of the CSA. Our players have been together for every FIFA dates (except 2, but had one 14 days camp on NOn-FIFA date) since Yallop left, I'm not sure we can say we're throwing them together and expecting results. All teams in the world, like Estonia or Iceland, are doing the same thing and some are winning... BTW, the fact the players are showing is telling me that they don't "know from experience that they are (not intentinally - even I don't think the CSA would do that) being set up to fail". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola BTW, the fact the players are showing is telling me that they don't "know from experience that they are (not intentinally - even I don't think the CSA would do that) being set up to fail". I believe that both Dwayne and Jim have both echoed the above. I cannot directly quote them, but they have basically said, "what do you expect when we only see each other a couple of times a year". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Paddy I believe that both Dwayne and Jim have both echoed the above. I cannot directly quote them, but they have basically said, "what do you expect when we only see each other a couple of times a year". It's the same thing for pretty much every other national teams. I don't see how we could have them spending more time together. Maybe one more activity per year on the FIFA date we didn't use in the last 2 years. BTW, they'll spend at least 3 weeks together in may/june and play at least 4 games. I would be curious to know when we should and could've them together in the last 12 months. If great prep is to have them together on every occasion, you can't miss one FIFA dates and call it "poor prep"...The present prep is decent and seems to be done in consideration of what we have in term of possible available dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola It's the same thing for pretty much every other national teams. I don't see how we could have them spending more time together. Maybe one more activity per year on the FIFA date we didn't use in the last 2 years. BTW, they'll spend at least 3 weeks together in may/june and play at least 4 games. I would be curious to know when we should and could've them together in the last 12 months. If great prep is to have them together on every occasion, you can't miss one FIFA dates and call it "poor prep"... It goes beyond missing dates. Taking a year to get a coach, hiring unqualified coaches, basically sending the message that we will never hire qualfied coaches, the whole recent hiring firing fiasco (couldn't the money wasted there have been used elsewhere?), etc - this is all part of preparation. It all adds up and sends a poor message to everyone. It must be mentally draining as a player to watch this going on (yes, there is a mental aspect to preparation) - yet they still show. The CSA is the face of Canadian soccer and that face is covered with clown make-up. Do you work for the CSA or something? You're not just a shill roaming this board, are you? I find it odd the lack of culpabilty you assign to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Not working for the CSA, just think you're making poor excuses for the players here. For the record, I was against Mitchell hiring and I'm not impress with his coaching style and result so far but I'm not gonna forget the players responsability in all of this. Do you know what kind of prep Osieck had in 2000? It was incredible, he had the chance to play something like 20 games in the year prior to our 2000 WCQ first game and he still blew it.... Maybe it was mentally draining for the players to watch all the coaching fiasco but they cannot use that as an excuse to lose against Estonia or draw against Iceland, can they? That was one year ago for god sake, since then they've played pretty well in the GC and since then haven't lived up to the expectations. So the mental aspect of their prep was OK for the GC but now the coaching hiring fiasco is back hunting them? They know who their coach ws going to be since last May, why does it affect them now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 die thread die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I've waited to post until today so my anger has at least died down a bit. I really thought that the SA friendly would be a one-off fluke bad performance, but evidently not. I don't think I need to say that performance is not nearly good enough for WCQ, but I also think that yesterday's performance might have us in trouble against ST.V AND THE FREAKING GRENADINES! We just looked like a bunch of player trying to put together a string of 5 passes. None of the players looked like they really wanted the ball, and they all looked extremely uncomfortable on the ball. DeRo had an unusually bad game. I know Mitchell has been taking a lot of crap on here after the game, but I mean we weren't that bad tactically. We looked like the U-23's except we couldn't defend simple counter attacks. I mean it wasn't even just the goals, we looked like coinciding several times through out the match. Even if we had won the match in which we were the better team I would have been very disappointing. And whoever said we shouldn't blame the players - that is complete BS. These guys aren't struggling to make a living or sacrificing millions to play for Canada. They should put in a better performance than yesterday that was just disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola Not working for the CSA, just think you're making poor excuses for the players here. For the record, I was against Mitchell hiring and I'm not impress with his coaching style and result so far but I'm not gonna forget the players responsability in all of this. Do you know what kind of prep Osieck had in 2000? It was incredible, he had the chance to play something like 20 games in the year prior to our 2000 WCQ first game and he still blew it.... Maybe it was mentally draining for the players to watch all the coaching fiasco but they cannot use that as an excuse to lose against Estonia or draw against Iceland, can they? That was one year ago for god sake, since then they've played pretty well in the GC and since then haven't lived up to the expectations. So the mental aspect of their prep was OK for the GC but now the coaching hiring fiasco is back hunting them? They know who their coach ws going to be since last May, why does it affect them now? Why does it affect them now...because they got a crappy coach with a losing record as a result - this was the best that the CSA could come up with and they have to live with it. Dale Mitchel should be no where near any national team. Also, I never said that was the sole reason...it is cumulative. As for Holger: just because it didn't work for him we should abandon getting as much preparation as we possibly can? Yes, its not a sure thing, but I'll take a 20 game build up any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Paddy Why does it affect them now...because they got a crappy coach with a losing record as a result - this was the best that the CSA could come up with and they have to live with it. Dale Mitchel should be no where near any national team. Also, I never said that was the sole reason...it is cumulative. As for Holger: just because it didn't work for him we should abandon getting as much preparation as we possibly can? Yes, its not a sure thing, but I'll take a 20 game build up any day. Ok, so it's Mitchell's fault. He puts our best players on the field unlike Yallop and Holger, they can't execute (it's not like those guys are playing the 4-5-1 for the first time). A part of the blame must go to DM but exonerating the players of any blame or finding them excuses is lame. They're complaining about the opposition but can't beat that opposition with an A starting 11 in a formation they've been playing for 2 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola Ok, so it's Mitchell's fault. He puts our best players on the field unlike Yallop and Holger, they can't execute (it's not like those guys are playing the 4-5-1 for the first time). A part of the blame must go to DM but exonerating the players of any blame or finding them excuses is lame. They're complaining about the opposition but can't beat that opposition with an A starting 11 in a formation they've been playing for 2 years now. They are all complaining, or just two players? I only saw two names so far. I don't think it is fair to say they are all complaining (correct me if I am wrong). Our inability to score (if that is what you mean by execute) is nothing new - been that way for as long as I can remember, so it is not just the current batch of players who are suffering in this area. The style we play is nothing new, it has looked as haphazard for years - with the odd off day where we string passed together. So, if the players over the years are constantly changing yet the product on the field looks the same, and the results are the same, what is causing it? - Players are not being developed properly - Players are not coached properly - Talent isn't identified properly - etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAZZA Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I was at the game and have the utmost sympathy for the guys. Having to play in those conditions was a lottery. (Gary, York, England). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefoot Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 seriously...look at the conditions..we did try to win...got caught off by an own goal..we were playing in a blizzard...who can predict a result in a game like that? not grounds to bitch out the players. or the coach even. although mitchell is not in any way a visionary leader. or inspirational. no presence on the sideline. no candor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 i am from argentina,. Isaw the game on espn live on wednesday. I think that canada should have played in a humid, hot and wet atmosphere, not in estonia with snow...there is no snow in jamaica nor mexico. that game was an awful IDEA... my team to win the group with mexico and honduras and jamaica hirshfeld stalteri mckenna kuklowski edgar hutchinson nsaliwa de guzman bernier de rosario friend first canada needs the most skillful players in midfield to steal the ball, and keep possesion, and then break them ......but i insist that canada needs a strong midfield to get the control of the game.... the black 4 hutchinson/bernier/nsaliwa/and de guzman...will do that against mexico/honduras /jamaica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I wonder how they'll feel about being dubbed the "Black 4"? [:0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsity Tyler Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I realized that I never posted any pics of my quick little trip to the Baltics. I'm pretty sure you'll need a facebook account to view these, but here ya go ... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=41509&l=d3f3d&id=304700159 This was a quick one-week trip for me, with stops in London, Ljubljana (Slovenia) and Tallinn (Estonia). Some pics from the match and the stadium are on the second page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Thanks VT for those pics! "Hell Hunt" what a cool place, good memory for a nice night out in Tallinn!!! Those Baltics girls are just amazing! Loyola Edit: Cool pic with the MNT players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Tyler, you win the most-travelled Voyageur award. Which matches have you been to again? Egypt, Estonia, Wales ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So, as you sat beside Mitchell on the flight back, I assume you slept well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsity Tyler Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 quote:Originally posted by redhat Tyler, you win the most-travelled Voyageur award. Which matches have you been to again? Egypt, Estonia, Wales ? I'm definitely not the most travelled. Tons of other Vees have travelled just as far within our own country (and the US) to watch the boys. That said, here's my games list, and most are at home: - Jamaica 98 Toronto - Trinidad 00 Toronto - Mexico 00 Toronto - Egypt 01 Cairo - Iran 01 Cairo - United States Florida 02? 03? - Belize x2 04 Kingston - Costa Rica 07 Toronto - Estonia 08 Tallinn - Jamaica 08 Toronto I've been fortunate enough to organize holidays and trips around our international schedule. Other times it works against me - I've never seen one of our home games outside of Ontario. It seems every time I've been unable to get out of work, or I've been too poor to travel. lol And as for the plane, yeah I flew beside Mitchell from Tallinn to London. We didn't talk a ton, but we did chit chat a bit about the game, and in general I just passed on good sentiments toward the team. I'm sure after that kind of a game the last thing we wanted was some Canuck breaking his balls over things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsity Tyler Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 quote:Originally posted by loyola Thanks VT for those pics! "Hell Hunt" what a cool place, good memory for a nice night out in Tallinn!!! Those Baltics girls are just amazing! Loyola Edit: Cool pic with the MNT players. after the friendly a few of us from the hostel went over to hell hunt for dinner. they had some damn good homestyle dishes. i specifically remember the goooood (and cheap) lasagna and pork chops. and at that point i was still wearing my canadian jersey, so a bunch of estonians couldnt' help but to come over and say hi. it seemed like that was the story of the night ... we went to the club Hollywood that night and bumped into about a third of the national team there. of course, i was still rockin the canadian shirt, which was an instant conversation starter all night. and as for the baltic girls, estonia is a paradise. they're all a solid 8/10. it just blows the mind. and the thing i wonder is if they actually know how good looking they are. compared to most north americans they're knockouts, but against each other the average is just so high that you actually have to like your odds. lol. and if you can impress them with a canuck soccer shirt then all the better, haha ... suffice to say that Tallinn was a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Varsity Tyler Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I realized that I never posted any pics of my quick little trip to the Baltics. I'm pretty sure you'll need a facebook account to view these, but here ya go ... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=41509&l=d3f3d&id=304700159 This was a quick one-week trip for me, with stops in London, Ljubljana (Slovenia) and Tallinn (Estonia). Some pics from the match and the stadium are on the second page. Don't forget the fact that you landed in Toronto mere hours before boarding a bus to Columbus for the season opener! I remember you being so disoriented, and that was before we started drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouversoccerman Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Your Estonia pics in the snow certainly win the Canadiana award! Other than the Estonia friendly, can anyone else remember a Canadian friendly or WCQ in the snow? (No...there was no snow in St.John's...it was just really cold ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Varsity Tyler after the friendly a few of us from the hostel went over to hell hunt for dinner. they had some damn good homestyle dishes. i specifically remember the goooood (and cheap) lasagna and pork chops. and at that point i was still wearing my canadian jersey, so a bunch of estonians couldnt' help but to come over and say hi. it seemed like that was the story of the night ... we went to the club Hollywood that night and bumped into about a third of the national team there. of course, i was still rockin the canadian shirt, which was an instant conversation starter all night. and as for the baltic girls, estonia is a paradise. they're all a solid 8/10. it just blows the mind. and the thing i wonder is if they actually know how good looking they are. compared to most north americans they're knockouts, but against each other the average is just so high that you actually have to like your odds. lol. and if you can impress them with a canuck soccer shirt then all the better, haha ... suffice to say that Tallinn was a great time. I was there 5-6 weeks after the game and some people talked to me about the game when I said I was canadian. Seem that was the story for a while Why I'm not surprise the players went to club Hollywood? Best nightclub in the Baltics, no creepy faces like you have in most clubs in Riga. " and the thing i wonder is if they actually know how good looking they are" I can safely say the latvians girls know how good looking they are, they dress like supermodels and have a lot of attitude, they are generaly cold. Estonians and Lithuanians girls are a different bunch, easier to engage a conversation with and friendlier. I don't think they realize how pretty they are. But maybe that's because of the men who aren't really good looking, so when they look at their s**t boyfriends they think they are like him.... The Baltics states are definately worth a visit, picturesque, easy to travel and some nice people. I need to go back there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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