CanadianSwede Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Just surfing the web and I found this article on MLSnet.com. Got to give props to the writer for supporting both montreal and vancouver. Cheers http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20080229&content_id=141313&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashcleaner Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Thanks for the article. Putting it up on the RPB Boards now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trident Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Wow... Memphis,Pittsburgh, others, all put ahead of more deserving teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Yea I've been following the MLS boards "discussion" of future expansion. About 1/4th of the attitude is "why do we have any Canadian cities" or "there are lots of US cities that are better". The other 3/4ths just want a successful league (financial and quality soccer!). I like that 3/4ths a lot. They seem more practical. What it comes down to for MLS is the following: 1) Do you have an owner with very deep pockets and a 10-15 year plan? 2) Are you in an area with 4+ million people to advertise to? 3) Do you own a soccer specific stadium or can you get one built? 4) Is there a strong soccer following in your area? 5) Are there any nearby regional rivals? They seem willing to bend any rules for the right mix of answers. The MLS just upped the ante from $30 million (Philly) to $40 for the next couple. My bet is on St. Louis, Montreal, Atlanta and Vancouver in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 my money's on Montreal and Miami in 2010 I would like to see Vancouver and Portland by 2012. I would like to see St. Louis in the league as well. It's a city with real soccer roots. If they get their money together, I fear that Vancouver and Portland (and any others) will be fighting it out for the 20th franchise. The question is: will they expand beyond 20 teams? the CCC operates with 24 I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 If they ever want to become a truly "major" North American league, they'll keep going until they hit 30, in order to cover all of the American TV markets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 is 30 not a bit unworkable? I don't disagree about hitting all the TV markets but 30 just feels like too large a number for 1 table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr is 30 not a bit unworkable? I don't disagree about hitting all the TV markets but 30 just feels like too large a number for 1 table. MLS seems to think any number is unfit for 1 table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazzer Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr is 30 not a bit unworkable? I don't disagree about hitting all the TV markets but 30 just feels like too large a number for 1 table. My guess is that when MLS hits 32 teams, they will still have two conferences; East and West. Regular seaspm play becomes only within your own conference, 2 games against each team in your own conference. PLayoffs and cup tourneys then will become the only time to play a team from the other side of the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpenza Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph What it comes down to for MLS is the following: 1) Do you have an owner with very deep pockets and a 10-15 year plan? 2) Are you in an area with 4+ million people to advertise to? 3) Do you own a soccer specific stadium or can you get one built? 4) Is there a strong soccer following in your area? 5) Are there any nearby regional rivals? Answers for Montreal : 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes 4) Yes 5) Yes And yet, people seem to think we do not have what it takes. Being qualified in each and every aspect taken into consideration is not enough. Even if you have the full backing of an established franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Mpenza Answers for Montreal : 1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Yes 4) Yes 5) Yes And yet, people seem to think we do not have what it takes. Being qualified in each and every aspect taken into consideration is not enough. Even if you have the full backing of an established franchise. I hear ya. I have been pitching for Montreal (and Van) on the MLS boards because they have all the required ingredients for a successful MLS soccer team. Hell you even outdraw some MLS teams and you are in the USL-1! I love the pictures of the new stadium. You will get there and sooner than my team will (Whitecaps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by nazzer My guess is that when MLS hits 32 teams, they will still have two conferences; East and West. Regular seaspm play becomes only within your own conference, 2 games against each team in your own conference. PLayoffs and cup tourneys then will become the only time to play a team from the other side of the continent. The problem is that a big draw player (DB aka ladycakes) won't get to half the cities. The owners wouldn't want that because he is a big draw. By the time they get to 22 (still manageable) they will need to make some choices. Hopefully in 5 or 6 years when they get there it will be less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph The problem is that a big draw player (DB aka ladycakes) won't get to half the cities. The owners wouldn't want that because he is a big draw. By the time they get to 22 (still manageable) they will need to make some choices. Hopefully in 5 or 6 years when they get there it will be less of an issue. That's why I have my doubts about the logic of a 30 team league. If the league is going to continue trying to bring in star power to sell seats, you can't have someone like Becks playing in front of Western Conference crowds only. the New York people would be pissed. If you want to accomodate that concern by playing home and away, you would have a 58 game schedule, which is also unworkable. My personal opinion is that a 24 team single table is the absolute maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph The problem is that a big draw player (DB aka ladycakes) won't get to half the cities. The owners wouldn't want that because he is a big draw. By the time they get to 22 (still manageable) they will need to make some choices. Hopefully in 5 or 6 years when they get there it will be less of an issue. That's why I have my doubts about the logic of a 30 team league. If the league is going to continue trying to bring in star power to sell seats, you can't have someone like Becks playing in front of Western Conference crowds only. the New York people would be pissed. If you want to accomodate that concern by playing home and away, you would have a 58 game schedule, which is also unworkable. My personal opinion is that a 24 team single table is the absolute maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr is 30 not a bit unworkable? I don't disagree about hitting all the TV markets but 30 just feels like too large a number for 1 table. I could see 32 teams, splitting off into MLS-1 and MLS-2 with promotion/relegation. I don't ever see promotion/relegation happening between MLS and the USL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_Yank Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr my money's on Montreal and Miami in 2010 I would like to see Vancouver and Portland by 2012. I would like to see St. Louis in the league as well. It's a city with real soccer roots. If they get their money together, I fear that Vancouver and Portland (and any others) will be fighting it out for the 20th franchise. The question is: will they expand beyond 20 teams? the CCC operates with 24 I believe. Miami, not in 2010, and probably not ever. Philly has already been awarded the 16th franchise, which will start in 2010. I could possibly see Montreal with 2010 as well because, like Seattle, they will already have their core squad instead of having to build from scratch. The would be competitive from day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSwede Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 I am hoping that they cap the amount of teams at 20. 32 teams is way to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank I could see 32 teams, splitting off into MLS-1 and MLS-2 with promotion/relegation. I don't ever see promotion/relegation happening between MLS and the USL. In my opinion, this should be the ultimate goal. I don't think it is though. I really do believe that pro/rel would be accepted by North American fans more than people think. Its the owners that wouldn't like this idea. But could you imagine the extra media attention a promotion playoff would get in a market like Philly or St. Louis. It is a concept that is so foreign to North American that I think it would really perk the interest of a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Well, you better hang your hat on keeping single entity. No potential owner in North America will walk into a league with promotion/relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Ed Well, you better hang your hat on keeping single entity. No potential owner in North America will walk into a league with promotion/relegation. I'm not sure this is 100% true. I'd say the relegation is more of the sticking point. If the expansion fee was $20 million for MLS 1, and Kerfoot or Saputo were offered MLS 2 for $10 million with the oppportunity to promote, wouldn't they be interested? What if relegation was based on other factors than simply your performance in the table? Such as gate revenue? What if the relegated club received a portion to the expansion revenue from MLS 2? What if KC were offered $10 million by the league to relegate in order to build a proper stadium. It seems to me there's always a club that could use some time to sort themselves out in a league with a better cost structure. If the league is expnading and moving away from a single entity, there might be a creative way to work promotion/releagtion into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Anyone see this article from Martin Rogers. he's got Montreal ranked as his #2 choice for expansion after St. Louis. I wholeheartedly agree with him. I think the Saputo/Gillette scenario he puts forward is more than just speculation. I think there is a real chance of a partnership there. Hopefully George isn't feeling too bitter about soccer after the fiasco at Liverpool. http://sports.yahoo.com/mls/news?slug=ro-mlsexpansion022908&prov=yhoo&type=lgns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Crazy_Yank I could see 32 teams, splitting off into MLS-1 and MLS-2 with promotion/relegation. I don't ever see promotion/relegation happening between MLS and the USL. I think the MLS will just use the USL as division 2 & 3 without having to pay for it. They may strike a deal where USL teams are kept to small markets (less than 2 million) and the MLS gets the big ones (4+ million). You could have some competition between them like the Lamar Hunt one in the US and the CONCACAF "Voyageurs Cup" in Canada. It would help grow the sport and provide smaller markets with a participation route. What is needed is more situations like Austin Aztecs who will be affiliated with English Championship side Stoke City FC. Maybe the Spurs and Nash could use Ottawa, Calgary or Edmonton as their affiliate? Dare to dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks fan Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Vancouver or Victoria would seem like the obvious choice for anything Nash would be a part of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cashcleaner Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I seriously doubt we'll ever see MLS expand beyond 20 teams in the forseeable future. The idea of a 30-team or 32-team league is simply not feasible, even if there was a substantial change in the attitude towards the sport here in North America. I think my feelings are similar to tmcmurph's. I see a partnershp developing between USL and MLS, not leading to a system of promotion and relegation, but one similar to the NHL and AHL, with USL teams affiliated with MLS clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Canucks fan Vancouver or Victoria would seem like the obvious choice for anything Nash would be a part of... Vancouver will have the Whitecaps and MLS so that will already be covered. Victoria might be able to manage it but with a regional population of about 600,000 and a lot of them would be Caps fans first it might be a tougher go. Ottawa = 1.2 million, Calgary = 1.1 million, Edmonton = 1 million I think those 3 would be the next logical choices for USL-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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