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Is the REVOLUTION ON? they call it CSF


Eric
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quote:Originally posted by L.T.

The OSA has not permitted any type of professional/private club to run any type of youth program, except for the USL teams that are allowed to field Super Y and Travel teams.

But the CSL teams that are privately run can only get senior club status ...

Lino ... I'm disappointed. You're at it as well! This is simply not true!

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Prove me wrong Bill - Other than the exceptions I gave, give me an example of a non-community based organization that is able to field youth teams without having to set up a dummy not-for-profit with the owner's wife and dog as directors...

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Bill

if what JB and Lino are saying is not true, then could we get a Formal letter from John Knox sent to the CSL commissioner that states in no uncertain terms that CSL teams are free to establish themselves as Full Service clubs?

I am willing to believe you because you are not the type to lie. I think the CSL member clubs would be very happy to know that, without any uncertainty, that they can go ahead and organize themselves as full service clubs. If that permission is granted, we would definitely be on our way to creating the types of "Strong Clubs" that the CSF model promotes.

By the way, why did it take 2 years for the CSL to get OSA approval to field reserve teams? I got my hands on a press release today and it was unbelievable to me that it took the OSA 2 years to grant "permission" to a professional league to establish reserve teams. Did TFC need that permission from the OSA too?

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Let me apologize in advance for diverting this discussion - but Bill the OSA has to become better informed at what kind of soccer landscape they are creating with their 'hands-off' policy regarding the Districts.

Currently I know of three fairly large District Associations (Peel-Halton, Scarborough and York Region) which official or not, have moratoriums on new youth clubs. So the only way pro club in these areas can start youth programs is by begging one of the existing youth clubs to affiliate - and we all now how well that goes (Richmond Hill/Aurora/Glen Shields with the Shooters, London City, Oakville have all had short-lived or controversial pro/youth affiliations). The existing ones (like Supra, Croatia) are tiny little clubs that the big youth clubs don't worry about...

We operate in a system where mediocrity is rewarded and the only condition to running a youth club is that you ran one last year. The fact that it may be a mess and stuck in the dark ages is irrelevent. They were there first, so they get their 'territory'.

In Scarborough, an enterprising and frustrated soccer administrator tried to get new ideas into some existing clubs. He was rebuffed and started his own club. The district told him that the wouldn't sanction him because "there weren't enough kids to support a new club". Well after 3-4 years they are the largest youth club in Scarborough with over 2,000 players. Many were new registrants that were brought in by his fresh approach (they are still unsanctioned, and I doubt it interests them anymore)...

end rant...

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

So, were the National Teams discussed last night, or was this more whining from those involved in youth/amateur soccer? With the main goal of having fees decreased?

did some youth coach do you wrong as a kid? did your foot get run over by a soccer mom driving a minivan with one of those soccer ball vinyl stickers on the rear window? LOL. Kidding (sort of)

We addressed the national teams in our opening statement. We made it very clear that we are all very strong supporters of the national team program and it is our express desire to ensure that national team programs have the type of resources and quality of players needed to be successful. I didn't hear anyone have anything negative to say about the national teams. The room was full of club head coaches and TD's. I've not met a Club head coach or TD who had anything but high hopes for our national teams. In one side conversation I had, some people expressed concerns that our men's team is not getting the type of prep needed for WCQ but people seemed relatively upbeat about the quality of our team.

It is in no one's interest to do anything that will negatively impact Canadian national teams (men and women). Someone should tell that to the CSA. *wink*

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quote:Originally posted by Eric

Bill, would the CSL clubs be allow to compete among them with their youth teams or are they obligated to play at the OSA designated leagues?

CSL youth teams would have to play in existing OSA sanctioned leagues - as they do currently. London City play in the whole range of youth leagues from the OYSL, WOYSL to L&DYSL. (Not sure about 2008 because of the split with North London). The CSL cannot run their own youth league - and have indicated that they have no interest in doing so.

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Would the CSL youth programs be allow to compete "legally" at the Academies League SAAC?

CSL youth teams could not "legally" play in the SAAC Academy League at this time as SAAC is not a member of the OSA and their league is not sanctioned by the OSA.

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Originally posted by Bill Spiers

CSL youth teams would have to play in existing OSA sanctioned leagues - as they do currently. London City play in the whole range of youth leagues from the OYSL, WOYSL to L&DYSL. (Not sure about 2008 because of the split with North London). The CSL cannot run their own youth league - and have indicated that they have no interest in doing so.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

did some youth coach do you wrong as a kid? did your foot get run over by a soccer mom driving a minivan with one of those soccer ball vinyl stickers on the rear window? LOL. Kidding (sort of)

Well, you can make fun of me all you want, but untill Peter Mallett, Flynn Beharry and Bob Iarusci step down from the CSF, I do not wish them any success.

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quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ Fair enough. I would like to know what is behind the apparent animosity between the CSL and the OSA, especially if there is accommodation of Toronto FC although TFC youths will be part of their private academy just like the SAAC members. There must be some history there, especially if one considers the unwillingness even to acknowledge the CSL's version of an Open Canada Cup by almost everybody except the few teams that participate.

I believe that what's behind the apparent animosity between the CSL and the OSA it has been obviously worked out http://canadiansoccerleague.ca/news2.php?news_id=81380 , so you won't be able to create any "animosity" by your self just to benefit your league this time Richard.

You don't really believe the CSL needs the OSA acknowledging that they organize the Open Canada Cup!!! and in regards to your comment about "the few teams that participate" I hope you realize that you're not acknowledging the huge participation of amateur clubs from your province and lets not even mention the fact that one of them made the cup final, the Columbus Clan of the Vancouver Metro Soccer League's Premier Division............... that's not your league? probably NOT otherwise you'll be bragging all over this forum.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Well, you can make fun of me all you want, but untill Peter Mallett, Flynn Beharry and Bob Iarusci step down from the CSF, I do not wish them any success.

Have a sense of humour. Just some lighthearted fun.

Why don't you contact these people that you problems with and ask them to address your concerns? Just curious. If you want email addresses, i'd be happy to provide them.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Have a sense of humour. Just some lighthearted fun.

Why don't you contact these people that you problems with and ask them to address your concerns? Just curious. If you want email addresses, i'd be happy to provide them.

What's the point? Like Mallet will address his disdain for Canadian soccer supporters? Or Mallett or Iarusci will back down on their stance that Canadians shouldn't play for Canada? I doubt that they will.

Like I've said in the past, I would have more respect for the CSF if some of these guys stepped down for the good of the organization.

You said yourself that the meeting went great. Why not get some people with more credibility to take their places?

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quote:Originally posted by L.T.

Prove me wrong Bill - Other than the exceptions I gave, give me an example of a non-community based organization that is able to field youth teams without having to set up a dummy not-for-profit with the owner's wife and dog as directors...

What I took issue with was your statement:

"The OSA has not permitted any type of professional/private club to run any type of youth program"

There is no such OSA prohibition and I've already given examples of the CSL clubs that run youth programmes.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

............

You said yourself that the meeting went great. Why not get some people with more credibility to take their places?

So, according to you, Bob Iarusca has no credibility?!

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quote:Originally posted by Bill Spiers

What I took issue with was your statement:

"The OSA has not permitted any type of professional/private club to run any type of youth program"

There is no such OSA prohibition and I've already given examples of the CSL clubs that run youth programmes.

Well,On my question why CSL clubs don't have youth teams,answer from CSL representative was clear,CSL teams are not allowed (I don't know how long did you slept during this meeting if you were there in the first place) but you missed his clear answer.

Now if you are saying OSA is OK with CLS clubs running their own youth teams it would be nice have it written and send to all clubs and maybe post it here too.

It was clear after last night that OSA stinks as much as CSA and change must come from the bottom starting with Provincial associations.Take it however you want but that the fact.

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I don't listen to GTA radio, so I don't know what Bob has said, but I do find it funny how TV/Radio can shape people's view of an individual's credibility. Like Paul James for instance. After Argentina, he was a whipping boy in these parts for some time. Now people seem to love the guy after his work on the Score. A lot of people have posted negative stuff about Bob but it *could* be that he was just taking a position on the radio for the sake of taking a position for the listeners. I'm generally of the same mind as MA in this thread, but I do think every Canadian International has some credibility including Bob, Yallop, Mitchell, James and some of the other Voyageur whipping boys, past and present.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Bill

if what JB and Lino are saying is not true, then could we get a Formal letter from John Knox sent to the CSL commissioner that states in no uncertain terms that CSL teams are free to establish themselves as Full Service clubs?

I am willing to believe you because you are not the type to lie. I think the CSL member clubs would be very happy to know that, without any uncertainty, that they can go ahead and organize themselves as full service clubs. If that permission is granted, we would definitely be on our way to creating the types of "Strong Clubs" that the CSF model promotes.

I'm sure if the CSL Commissioner wants clarification on this issue, he can contact the OSA himself.

The problem - as you will note from Lino's later post - is that some Districts (not the OSA) have restrictions on accepting new members.

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

By the way, why did it take 2 years for the CSL to get OSA approval to field reserve teams? I got my hands on a press release today and it was unbelievable to me that it took the OSA 2 years to grant "permission" to a professional league to establish reserve teams. Did TFC need that permission from the OSA too?

What took two years was the entire agreement. Originally, it was rejected by the CSL as the OSA Board insisted that as a professional league, CSL teams should have a minimum number of professional players. (A compromise has since been worked out on this issue). The subject of a reserve division was only raised for the first time with the OSA last summer and an application just submitted in January.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

What's the point? Like Mallet will address his disdain for Canadian soccer supporters? Or Mallett or Iarusci will back down on their stance that Canadians shouldn't play for Canada? I doubt that they will.

Like I've said in the past, I would have more respect for the CSF if some of these guys stepped down for the good of the organization.

You said yourself that the meeting went great. Why not get some people with more credibility to take their places?

I think the people in our group have credibility. The people in the room last night seemed to think so too or they would not have attended and might have told us so.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

"What's the point? Like Mallet will address his disdain for Canadian soccer supporters? Or Mallett or Iarusci will back down on their stance that Canadians shouldn't play for Canada? I doubt that they will.

Like I've said in the past, I would have more respect for the CSF if some of these guys stepped down for the good of the organization.

You said yourself that the meeting went great. Why not get some people with more credibility to take their places?"

This has to be the only country in the world where somebody like Massive Attack (who no body knows who he is and what's his level of knowledge in the sport is) can accuse somebody who made a professional career out of soccer as a player, including our national team, like Bob Iarusci of not having enough credibility in the sport because he expressed his personal opinion on the radio!!!

No wonder we are where we are with the state of soccer in our country, too many volunteers and amateurs giving opinions and passing judgment on real professionals of the sport.

P.S. No, I am not Bob Iarusci's friend or family member or teammate, I just can't stand some of the "volunteers" in this boar.

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Originally posted by Bill Spiers

I'm sure if the CSL Commissioner wants clarification on this issue, he can contact the OSA himself.

The problem - as you will note from Lino's later post - is that some Districts (not the OSA) have restrictions on accepting new members.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Now, all we need is that letter from Mr. Knox that states in clear 12pt Font that CSL clubs can begin to organize themselves as fully integrated, full service clubs. I'm sure if they get this clarification ASAP, they might be ready to be up and running by next season.

Can we expect that letter by Monday morning? Sooner the better. I'm sure that the gentleman from the CSL who was in attendance last night would be very pleased to get his hands on that letter. I'm sure his member clubs would appreciate the clarification because he was clearly confused by what the real rules are.

As already mentioned, if the CSL Commissioner wants clarification on this issue, he can contact the OSA himself. After all, the CSL offices are in the Soccer Centre in Vaughan so they do have easy access to the OSA. The "gentleman from the CSL" who raised this issue yesterday was one of the club owners - not a representative of the league.

In any event, don't expect the OSA to conduct business through internet discussion forums. I'm happy to come on here to try and clarify certain points - particularly where it is clear there is some misunderstanding - but that's as far as it goes.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

So, according to you, Bob Iarusca has no credibility?!

When you promote the idea of Canadians not playing for Canada, you should not be a person running the game in this country. That is the main reason why I don't want Iarusci anywhere near the running of Canada's soccer governing body.

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