trueviking Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 In the discussion about lars moving to Romania, I was looking at the attendance figures for many of the European leagues…it is quite surprising how low many of them are…I thought some of you guys may find it interesting to see how many people our boys typically play in front of... below are the average attendance figures for each team from this year. David Edgar – Newcastle: 50 900 Jonathan de Guzman – Feyenoord: 44 000 Jacob Lensky – Feyenoord: 44 000 Kevin McKenna - FK Koln: 41 000 Rob Friend - Borussia Monchengladbach: 39 200 Nik Ledgerwood - 1860 München: 36 500 Paul Stalteri – Tottenham: 35 900 Josh Simpson – Kaiserslautern: 26 600 Patrice Bernier – Kaiserslautern: 26 600 Mike Klukowski - Club Brugge: 25 800 Daniel Imhof - VfL Bochum: 24 700 Ante Jazic - Los Angeles Galaxy: 24 400 Kevin Harmse - Los Angeles Galaxy: 24 400 Iain Hume - Leicester City: 22 900 Jason De Vos - Ipswich Town: 20 700 Jaime Peters - Ipswich Town: 20 700 Greg Sutton – Toronto FC: 20 500 Jim Brennan – Toronto FC: 20 500 Andrea Lombardo – Toronto FC: 20 500 Atiba Hutchinson - FC Copenhagen: 19 900 Ryan Gyaki - Hansa Rostock: 19 800 Tam Nsaliwa - AEK Athens: 18 000 Pat Onstad - Houston Dynamo: 16 100 Dwayne De Rosario - Houston Dynamo: 16 100 Julian de Guzman - Deportivo La Coruña: 16 000 Jonathan Beaulieu-Bourgault - St. Pauli: 16 000 Adrian Serioux - FC Dallas: 15 100 Marcel de Jong - Roda JC: 14 000 Will Johnson - De Graafschap: 12 000 Gabriel Gervais – Montreal Impact: 11 000 Olivier Occean – Lillestrom: 9 000 Andre Hainault - AC Sparta Praha: 8 790 Lars Hirschfeld - CFR Cluj: 8 400 (formerly 20 000 with rosenborg) Andrew Ornoch - Jagiellonia Bialystok: 7 800 Justin Thompson - Portland Timbers: 6 800 Paul Peschisolido - Luton Town: 6 600 Rhian Dodds – Kilmarnock: 6 400 Marc Bircham - Yeovil Town: 5 500 Martin Nash – Vancouver Whitecaps: 5 100 Richard Hastings - Inverness CT: 5 000 Josh Wagenaar - ADO Den Haag: 4 700 Dave Simpson - FK Siad Most: 4 700 Brandon Bonifacio - Camburr-Leeuwarden: 4 500 Mike D'Agostino - Cheltenham Town: 4 300 Issey Nakajima-Farran - FC Nordsjælland: 4 050 Jordie Hughes - Charleston Battery: 3 900 Stephen Ademolu – Trelleborg: 3 500 Simon Rayner - Torquay United: 3 300 David Masciantonio – Benevento: 2 900 Tyler Hughes – Östers: 2 800 Terry Dunfield - Macclesfield Town: 2 300 Ali Gerba - FC Ingolstadt 04: 2 300 Ross Smith - Dag & Red: 1 900 Tomasz Radzinski – Xanthi: 1 900 Karim Chantilla - AS Cannes: 1 800 Simeon Jackson - Rushden & Diamonds: 1 600 Rocco Placentino – Gubbio: 1 100 Fernando Aguiar – Gondomar: 1 000 Radz in Xanthi is probably the biggest surprise…their attendance would rank them 9th in the conference (5th tier) of english football....their largest crowd of the year has been 3 600....i wonder how much he gets paid? Klukowski in Brugge also surprised me...pretty big numbers who knew that the montreal impact have higher attendance than sparta prague.... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 What about Houston Dynamo / St Pauli having an equal amount of people in the stands as to Deportivo la Coruna... Gloryhunters of the highest order there in A Coruna...[:0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I wonder who will be the first Canadian to play for a team (and play regularly) that draws an average of greater than 60,000. Errrrr better make that Canadian International. >60k avg. would be pretty elite company:</u> Arsenal London Manchester Utd. [xx(] Borussia Dortmund Bayern Munich [xx(] FC Schalke Real Madrid Barcelona Honorable mention or notable absentees:</u> Celtic (57,006) AC Milan (56,126) HSV (55,343) Marsielle (52,145) Urawa Reds (45,573) Liverpool (43,800) Inter (48,098) Roma (41,736) Juventus (20,520) Ajax (48,748) Glasgow Rangers (48,996) America (47,450) Boca Juniors (41,240) River (28,643) Fenerbahce (39,658) Kaizer Chiefs (info on African footy is tough to come by, but to give some perspective the Chiefs new stadium will have a capacity of 55,000) -Obviously some of the notable absents have stadium issues, especially Juve (although they don't usually draw well any ways) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 cheers for that - i love geeky stats like these - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarnado1555362291 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 ~76,000 attending Old Trafford today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Greek attendances are generally bad. I just wonder how Xanthi pays their players with only 1900 butts in the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan Greek attendances are generally bad. I just wonder how Xanthi pays their players with only 1900 butts in the seats. Well, the "Skoda" that is officially part of their name surely has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Skoda auto company own the team, much like Bayer AG own Bayer Leverkusen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 What about Houston Dynamo / St Pauli having an equal amount of people in the stands as to Deportivo la Coruna... Gloryhunters of the highest order there in A Coruna...[:0] Coruña was historically the second team in the region of Galicia, after Celta Vigo, until the 90s and the SuperDepor years. They never fill the stadium, though it is not that large. Not even during their years in Champions or vs. Madrid or Barcelona. But they have a big following amongst those of Galicia origin outside of the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan Greek attendances are generally bad. I just wonder how Xanthi pays their players with only 1900 butts in the seats. i agree...a league in canada of any sport would not last long with 10 of 16 teams drawing 4000 or less?....where do they get their revenue?...at $20 per ticket and 15 home games, 2/3 of the league is bringing in between $600k-$1.2m in ticket revenue for an entire season. Ergotelis Iraklio Kriti: 4.142 Iraklis Thessaloniki: 3.760 Asteras Tripolis: 3.466 Smyrnis Athina: 2.427 Athina: 2.396 Iraklio Kriti: 2.146 AE Levadiakos: 2.094 PAE Xanthi AO: 1.942 Thessaloniki: 1.661 AE Veria: 1.626 winnipeg's crappy independent baseball team averages 7000 per game and the players make 500 dollars per week....how can teams survive with 1600? anyone remember what CSL attendance used to be like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Some CHL teams survive with 1600.... but then again, they don't pay their players [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Some CHL teams survive with 1600.... but then again, they don't pay their players [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by trueviking i agree...a league in canada of any sport would not last long with 10 of 16 teams drawing 4000 or less?....where do they get their revenue?...at $20 per ticket and 15 home games, 2/3 of the league is bringing in between $600k-$1.2m in ticket revenue for an entire season. Any team in a decent national league shares in the television revenues that are generated mostly by the top teams. Being in top flight is thus very important. So if Xanthi plays Olimpiakos they have to share in the tv revenue that is there on the basis of the rival having a big following, meaning some tv station will pay for the rights sure that advertisers will buy in for the whole season. Usually the top teams make a lot more, but the effect is positive for the modest sides. If the team relegates it may or may not lose fans (and lower ticket prices), but for sure it will lose tv revenue. This makes selling advertising in the stadium and the shirt all the more lucrative, as any advertiser knows they are not paying to get to the Xanthi fans, they are indirectly reaching fans across the country. If a team unexpectedly gets into the UEFA cup, or gets a good rival in a later round of a national Cup, they get revenue that way as well. A lower division side that receives the visit of a major club in a cup round can often pull in up to a third of its total yearly budget just from the gate and television and the sale of advertising at pitch level. Then there are transfer fees. If a team spends wisely on youth programs, one decent transfer fee can pay for a whole year or more of youth teams and programs. Some teams in fact base their revenue on such transfers, and there are entire leagues that depend a lot on them, usually the upper mid-level leagues like Holland. So being in top flight or getting into UEFA means exposure for players that otherwise would not be seen, and that opens the possibility of generating revenue from transfers. Small teams do not usually generate revenue from merchandising, except in rare cases where they promote to top flight and the townpeople get excited and buy the shirt. This has a lot to do with civic pride, with the team's identification with a place that would not normally be in the news. I think last year Gimnastic Tarragona sold 30,000 shirts just because they were in first division Spain, the town really got behind them. But then again, Tarragona, which is a town of may 200,000, has no other significant sport teams. So the relation between civic pride and merchandising is strengthened in a way it would not if the town had strong teams in other sports. Civic pride is also the reason why you see smaller towns putting money into their local teams. Often this could be seen as a way of promoting the city touristically. So that could mean a significant amount of money to put the town name on the shirt, or to put one of the town's major attractions -like a theme park partially owned by public institutions- on it. But even without putting a name on a shirt, a town may decide to help with building a stadium -ceding land, even paying part of building costs- or with putting funds in to support the club's youth programs. It should be remembered that not everyone in the world do you have school sports like in North America (in Spain it is insignificant from primary to university, only rarely does an educational structure support competitive sport), so that the local club could be the way to channel funds into promoting sport for youth as part of the government sport policy. Another factor could also be money from the national or regional football federation. A lower level team will often receive support to deal with travel costs from federations (this happens with teams in the Canary Islands who have to travel to the peninsula, especially those in 2B, third tier). I am not sure if something like this happens with Puerto Rica in USL div. 1. Money is also filtered down to more modest clubs from sport pools and lotteries. All of these financial possibilities can be reasons why a local entrepreneur with money to spend, and perhaps interested in raising his public profile or simply putting something back into the community, will put money into a lower level club. The idea is often speculative, knowing that the club could one day be in a position to generate income if it can promote to top flight and stay there a few years. One thing builds on another. Some of these owners could be a bit megalomaniac, they could be willing to lose money as the price to pay to get personal prestige. There are owners who even use a football club as a stepping stone to politics, or simply to help them make business and government contacts that could then be positive for their own business interests. If I am not mistaken Xanthi has an owner with deep pockets, though I am not sure what his specific motivations are for spending in such a way as to ensure his club, with a small stadium and fan base, stays up in top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussoccerfan Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44 Some CHL teams survive with 1600.... but then again, they don't pay their players [] I heard that some CHL players get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I wonder how many people who go on at great length about the viability of a Canadian domestic professional league have ever actually had to secure substantial financing and meet a payroll themselves month after month, year after year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by aussoccerfan I heard that some CHL players get paid. I think they get something for living expenses, but it's really small. Also, most players live with a billet so they don't have to worry about rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Last year I heard a figure of $50 per week stipends for OHL players being bandied about. That may have been one team or an average, not too certain, but it sounds about right for that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Any team in a decent national league shares in the television revenues that are generated mostly by the top teams. Being in top flight is thus very important. So if Xanthi plays Olimpiakos they have to share in the tv revenue that is there on the basis of the rival having a big following, meaning some tv station will pay for the rights sure that advertisers will buy in for the whole season. Usually the top teams make a lot more, but the effect is positive for the modest sides. If the team relegates it may or may not lose fans (and lower ticket prices), but for sure it will lose tv revenue. Not in Greece. In Greece, each club negotiates its own TV contract with whichever network gives it the most money. Xanthi's contract is with state network ERT. Although the amount is undisclosed (or maybe its not; I just haven't found it), considering the size and following of the club, Xanthi will likely be getting somewhere around €1,500,000 this season. By the way, the club is owned by a Greek company that imports Skoda automobiles into the country, so when the club does well, it becomes a nice advertising vehicle for the product (pardon the pun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Metro Not in Greece. In Greece, each club negotiates its own TV contract with whichever network gives it the most money. Xanthi's contract is with state network ERT. Although the amount is undisclosed (or maybe its not; I just haven't found it), considering the size and following of the club, Xanthi will likely be getting somewhere around €1,500,000 this season. By the way, the club is owned by a Greek company that imports Skoda automobiles into the country, so when the club does well, it becomes a nice advertising vehicle for the product (pardon the pun). Okay, many teams in a lot of leagues are doing that, but still what often happens is that a private tv production company pays for the rights to the club and then they are resold as one key tv channel works to put the whole package together, paying for the individually negotiated rights. But the question is moot, as the revenue for Xanthi is still because they play against teams that other fans are much more interested in, like from Athens and Salonika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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