Three TFCers Called Into U.S. Camp

[Bill Ault]

CHICAGO (December 31, 2007) — U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Bob Bradley has named 26 players including three members of Toronto FC to the training camp roster that will begin workouts Jan. 3 at U.S. Soccer's National Training Center at The Home Depot Center in Carson, California. Maurice Edu, Marvell Wynne and Todd Dunivant have all been called into camp and will be part of the group preparing for the USA’s first match of 2008, a friendly against Sweden on Jan. 19 at The Home Depot Center.

Full release at www.canadakicks.com

[VPjr]

Dunivant? is there something I missed when I watched him suit up for TFC. He definitely did not look like a USMNT quality player but what do I know?

[jimmynow]

he did play for the US Men's Nats before.

I thought he showed skill on the ball and was a pretty good defender. but ya, not national team quality.

[Bill Ault]

A Couple of previous caps - almost anyone with a previous cap and in MLS was called in for this camp - only three from Europe (Scandinavian league players). A chance for Bradley to really look at his depth and his younger players (just Conrad and Corrales 30+) brings in 26 players so some full-sided scrimmages can be worked into the training.

With six defenders likely to be named for the game against Sweden and Califf, Conrad and Corrales almost assured roster spots - that leaves two or three more from this group:

Todd Dunivant (Toronto FC), Clarence Goodson (San Jose Earthquakes), Drew Moor (FC Dallas), Michael Parkhurst (New England Revolution), Eddie Robinson (Houston Dynamo), Marvell Wynne (Toronto FC)

Dunivant, Parkhurst and Moor each have two caps while Goodson, Robinson and Wynne have no senior caps. I would guess that two of the three with caps will be named while either Goodson or Wynne will get the "experience" cap. All in all it just shows the difference in depth between our program and the Americans - this should be a very competitive camp with everyone outside of possibly three players (Twellman, Johnson and Donavon) looking to secure depth spots on the team World Cup team.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault

Dunivant, Parkhurst and Moor each have two caps while Goodson, Robinson and Wynne have no senior caps.

I do believe that Wynne earned a cap last year during the Copa America tournament, against Argentina or Brazil.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

I do believe that Wynne earned a cap last year during the Copa America tournament, against Argentina or Brazil.

you are correct. He played vs. Argentina and did a decent job in the 1st half, as did the entire US team. Then the class of the Argies shone through and it was a romp. Wynne showed in that 2nd half that he has a long way to go to becoming a sound defender but his tremendous athelticism and speed do allow him to make up for some (but not all) of what he lacks on a technical level.

[jpg75]

The US were looking alright until Bradley took Ben Olsen off and put Eddie Gaven on. Argentina had guys like Tevez subbing on and the Americans were experimenting with an already experimental lineup to begin with...

[Bill Ault]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

I do believe that Wynne earned a cap last year during the Copa America tournament, against Argentina or Brazil.

That's what I thought but the press package has him at 0. I guess that's one area where US Soccer is as bad as the CSA

[RJB]

I'm very happy to see that TFC is providing quality playing time to their young Americans(and experienced ones too). Any time they can get players into the US National team is good for Canadian soccer.

[RS]

[8)]

Perhaps TFC should surround the Canadians on their side with crap players.

That way they'll never be challenged to win a spot, and they'll be used to mediocrity on a day to day basis, which would definitely be good for Canadian soccer.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

[8)]

Perhaps TFC should surround the Canadians on their side with crap players.

That way they'll never be challenged to win a spot, and they'll be used to mediocrity on a day to day basis, which would definitely be good for Canadian soccer.

By Canadians, do you mean Jim Brennan?

[RS]

Sure.

I see what you're getting at, though. As someone with no real vested interest in TFC (ie. season tickets), you want the team to be filled with purely Canadian content, competitiveness be damned.

Who needs one of the best young players on the continent like Maurice Edu when we could settle for picking from an extremely shallow pool of Canadian players who are either willing to take a huge pay cut or are trying to get out of the USL?

How are all of those great young Canadians on the Whitecaps coming along, btw?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

By Canadians, do you mean Jim Brennan?

I think he probably means the likes of Lombardo, Hemming, Gala & Melo.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

By Canadians, do you mean Jim Brennan?

Well done.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Well done.

What a surprise.

I'll tell you what. Perhaps the Voyageurs should petition the CSA to force all Canadian pro teams to purge themselves of foreign talent. We can't be developing all of them pesky foreigners, can we?

While we're at it, we'll ban our overseas players from playing outside of Canada, because by them lending their talents to teams outside of our borders, they'll be contributing to the development of all of the non-Canadians in those respective teams and leagues.

In fact, we shouldn't have any national teams at all, given that by playing other countries, we could be contributing to the development of their players through match practice.

[nolando]

a little over the top Rudi? feeling a little bit defensive about TFC? come on, we can usually count on you to come up with better counterarguments than this one

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Sure.

I see what you're getting at, though. As someone with no real vested interest in TFC (ie. season tickets), you want the team to be filled with purely Canadian content, competitiveness be damned.

Who needs one of the best young players on the continent like Maurice Edu when we could settle for picking from an extremely shallow pool of Canadian players who are either willing to take a huge pay cut or are trying to get out of the USL?

How are all of those great young Canadians on the Whitecaps coming along, btw?

The Whitecaps are doing just fine. Their academy is up and running(on their own, not mandated by the league) and hopefully we'll see the fruits of that very soon. However, the Whitecaps and the Impact weren't birthed by the CSA, or given handouts by the CSA(think BMO Field) and so, frankly, don't owe Canadian soccer to the tune that TFC does in my opinion. We can all handle growing pains, but when Schmo Johnston bemoans the Canadian talent, and then makes room for more Americans, it's frustrating to someone who has watched the National Association invest heavily in the team. Not just financial investment, but also in terms of national games going to Toronto.

How are the Lynx doing by the way?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

a little over the top Rudi? feeling a little bit defensive about TFC? come on, we can usually count on you to come up with better counterarguments than this one

I was absolutely over the top. But why would I need to defend TFC?

The statement that originally set me off was patently stupid, insinuating that the three US national teamers on TFC are taking spots away from deserving Canadians. Two of those three guys would likely start on any team in MLS.

My point was that it's not guys like Edu, Wynne or (to a much lesser extent) Dunivant that are keeping Canadians off of TFC, because those guys would improve just about every squad in the league.

Even if TFC was a defacto national side, there would still be a place for top of the line foreign players.

I suppose I'm just getting frustrated by the seemingly growing attitude on this board that TFC was supposed to be all-Canadian all the time, which of course is just a ridiculous sentiment.

Don't get me wrong, I think Mo shortchanged some Canadian TFC players in his evaluation of them, and definitely could have done more to bring in more Brennan-level Canadians into the league. But at the same time, only a fool would be calling the entire TFC "experiment" a failure on the Canadian development side after just 12 months of operation, which I'm seeing a lot of these days around here.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

How are the Lynx doing by the way?

Still playing at the same decrepit west end stadium they have been for years, although apparently they're moving into Varsity this sumer.

I was at their final game of the season. For the most part the talent level was poor but there were a few players that had potential. But that's neither here nor there given that the Lynx have seen far, far more of their alumni go through to the national team than the Whitecaps in recent years. I've see nothing to convince me that TFC won't do the same in a few years.

As for what TFC owes Canadian soccer, what people always tend to forget in talking about BMO Field is that it never would have gotten done without TFC/MLSE.

The CSA needed MLSE to complete the deal just as much as it needed the governments to finance the project.

Without MLSE to be a permanent tenant and actually push the project through, there would be no stadium, no U20 World Cup for the CSA to lose money over, no MLS team, and no opportunity for bitching about this issue.

To suggest that TFC was just handed a stadium is just being blissfully ignorant of the real situation.

[Cheeta]

Dunivant? Stuck me as a fairly smart player but wanting in just about everything else. Not afraid of the ball and with an eye for the field but without the skills to really capitalize on those aptitudes. (Decent speed to I guess).

Edu and Wynne are no brainers. And I will agree with Rudi on this part anyway; Those two are young quality players any team in MLS would be happy to have no questions asked. Holding either of them up as an example of TFC developing Yankee talent at the expense of Canadians is not the best way to make a winning argument.

Edu needs a fair bit of work yet. Absolutely. But you'd have to be blind or a fool not to want the opportunity to work with that kid. And Wynne?

If he comes along at the same rate as he did under last years difficult circumstances I wouldn't worry too much about him taking a Canadians job on TFC roster.

Because he won't be on TFC's roster at all. Not for long.

[redhat]

These TFCers are just part of a huge, 26-man roster that MAY be part of the

Sweden friendly. I think Edu could part of the final roster, but there's no

reason Marvell Wynne and Todd Dunivant shouldn't be there with the others.

And like Cheeta and Rudi, I don't consider their inclusion to the U.S. squad as

evidence that TFC is developing talent for our CONCACAF opponents. It's the

statement by Mo about reducing Canadian content that would concern me instead.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

It's the statement by Mo about reducing Canadian content that would concern me instead.

That's something we can all agree on.

Perhaps if Colin Miller comes in as Mo's assistant (as has been speculated) he'll be more effective in bringing in quality Canadians and won't need to rely on the increased int'l spots.

I honestly don't think Mo has anything against Canadian talent, but rather he took a gamble of the wrong ones sight unseen (basically taking them on reputation) and was burned by the poor quality of the ones he got.

A Canadian assistant that is familiar with the national team pool would help tremendiously in that regard.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I honestly don't think Mo has anything against Canadian talent, but rather he took a gamble of the wrong ones sight unseen (basically taking them on reputation) and was burned by the poor quality of the ones he got.

My take on that is that Mo is very quick to call out others when they screw up but very loath to take responsibility when he himself screws up so he needs someone to pin the blame on. This year it just happened to be the Canadians and since he eliminated that problem it will probably be something else next year.

TFC has gotten a lot of heat not without justification for the quota changes but we should not forget that the other two professional teams have not been model citizens in this regard either. Like TFC they have employed some good foreign players (which I have no problem with) but too many poor to mediocre foreign players. Another commonality is the poor coaches that all these teams have had and in two cases will continue to have. On the other hand the two USL franchises have shown some improvement in their commitment to Canadian talent over the course of the season while TFC has regressed so that is why much of the current criticism is directed at TFC.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

My take on that is that Mo is very quick to call out others when they screw up but very loath to take responsibility when he himself screws up so he needs someone to pin the blame on. This year it just happened to be the Canadians and since he eliminated that problem it will probably be something else next year.

Agreed he does seem a little too quick to shift blame off himself, especially for someone who is so media savvy otherwise.

quote:TFC has gotten a lot of heat not without justification for the quota changes but we should not forget that the other two professional teams have not been model citizens in this regard either. Like TFC they have employed some good foreign players (which I have no problem with) but too many poor to mediocre foreign players. Another commonality is the poor coaches that all these teams have had and in two cases will continue to have. On the other hand the two USL franchises have shown some improvement in their commitment to Canadian talent over the course of the season while TFC has regressed so that is why much of the current criticism is directed at TFC.

I see what you're saying, and I'm glad someone else gets my point about the USL teams having very few Canadians lately.

You hit my exact point about the three players that are the focus of this thread. They are not the problem, as they show enough quality to justify their spots.

The problem is when a average-to-mediocre foreign player is taken when an equally-skilled Canadian could do the same job, and possibly use the chance to improve his development through some consistent playing time.

This is how it is in every league in the world. The foreign players are brought in only when they can fill a role that the locals cannot, whereas the rank and file are populated by locals.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

However, the Whitecaps and the Impact weren't birthed by the CSA, or given handouts by the CSA(think BMO Field) and so, frankly, don't owe Canadian soccer to the tune that TFC does in my opinion.

I am not an expert on the Whitecaps history so can't comment on whether they have received public funding in the past or not but the Impact are the kings of public funding in Canadian soccer whether it comes from the CSA or not. They are a non-profit corporation for Christ's sake! Additionally, they have received direct funding from both the provincial and federal governments and even received sponsorship scandal money. So I would say the Impact certainly owe something to the development of soccer in both Quebec and Canada.

Rudi, maybe Mo's shifting the blame is very media savvy. He got a 2 year contract extension with pretty mediocre results. While it might not go over well with knowledgeable Canadian soccer fans his comments play into a public stereotype of poor Canadian talent which helps disguise what in my opinion was a poor coaching and managerial performance.