Who should be captain?

[Grizzly]

Klukowski is another guy who should be a guaranteed starter and thus thrown into the mix as a potential captain. Maybe not my first choice but I think not that far down the line of possible captains.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

I also recall that last go around, his position was reported to be "don't select me if I am not starting".

Interesting, I didn't know that. I was under the impression that he wasn't called because he wasn't playing first team football at Norwich City.

[nolando]

Klukowski for captain?!? I'm all for him being in the line-up, but c'mon, does he even know all of the other guys names yet with how few appearances he has made for us? And as far as JB goes, I don't think you should have anybody for captain that is anywhere close to the bubble as far as the starting eleven goes. Unless you're a blindly patriotic TFC supporter, I think we'd all have to admit there is a chance he might not even make the bench, let alone the starting eleven.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

Interesting, I didn't know that. I was under the impression that he wasn't called because he wasn't playing first team football at Norwich City.

Yes Gordon is right but in Brennan's defence I think several of the veterans saw quite early that there were some weird things going on in Yallop's selection process and that being the best player wasn't necessarily going to get you a starting spot. I think there were several players who were worried they were going to miss valuable playing time to sit on the bench for Canada while some less worthy players played. I have never heard for sure the reasons why Klukowski never played either but I suspect it is similar. This is why it is very crucial for a coach to make fair selections based on merit and not give any impression of favouritism. I guess Brennan just looked into his crystal ball and saw Peters, Gervais, Pizzolito, Watson and Corrazin on the field.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Klukowski for captain?!? I'm all for him being in the line-up, but c'mon, does he even know all of the other guys names yet with how few appearances he has made for us? And as far as JB goes, I don't think you should have anybody for captain that is anywhere close to the bubble as far as the starting eleven goes. Unless you're a blindly patriotic TFC supporter, I think we'd all have to admit there is a chance he might not even make the bench, let alone the starting eleven.

I didn't say Kluka was my first choice, only that he is much closer to being an automatic starter than some of the other players being discussed. Seems to have a decent personality for captain, a little more fire than some of the quieter players but not a hothead either. Again not my first choice but probably within the top 5 of guys who would be discussed at least until some of the starters at other positions are clarified.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Yes Gordon is right but in Brennan's defence I think several of the veterans saw quite early that there were some weird things going on in Yallop's selection process and that being the best player wasn't necessarily going to get you a starting spot. I think there were several players who were worried they were going to miss valuable playing time to sit on the bench for Canada while some less worthy players played. I have never heard for sure the reasons why Klukowski never played either but I suspect it is similar. This is why it is very crucial for a coach to make fair selections based on merit and not give any impression of favouritism. I guess Brennan just looked into his crystal ball and saw Peters, Gervais, Pizzolito, Watson and Corrazin on the field.

If your theory is true, it would hard to explain why those guys then answered the call for meaningless friendlies a year later while the team was coach by the same lunatic.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by loyolaIf your theory is true, it would hard to explain why those guys then answered the call for meaningless friendlies a year later while the team was coach by the same lunatic.

Not hard to explain at all. Finishing in last place in WCQ obviously showed Yallop that he needed these guys on the team so he did what he had to do to get them back. It was just too bad that we were out of WCQ by the time Yallop realized this. That Brennan and Kluka came back so easily for friendly games shows that it would not have taken that much for them to be kept on board for WCQ. Hirschfeld and Nsaliwa seem to have been more severely pissed off, possibly because they were available and not played.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Not hard to explain at all. Finishing in last place in WCQ obviously showed Yallop that he needed these guys on the team so he did what he had to do to get them back. It was just too bad that we were out of WCQ by the time Yallop realized this.

Your suggesting veterans refused call up because they felt Yallop would make poor decisions, I think that's odd. I find it odd they would refuse WCQ and then accept to show against Austria to play one half.

But, even if they did indeed refused because they weren't sure they would start, I think they are the one to blame. I don't think it's their job to worry about PT.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Yes Gordon is right but in Brennan's defence I think several of the veterans saw quite early that there were some weird things going on in Yallop's selection process and that being the best player wasn't necessarily going to get you a starting spot. I think there were several players who were worried they were going to miss valuable playing time to sit on the bench for Canada while some less worthy players played. I have never heard for sure the reasons why Klukowski never played either but I suspect it is similar. This is why it is very crucial for a coach to make fair selections based on merit and not give any impression of favouritism. I guess Brennan just looked into his crystal ball and saw Peters, Gervais, Pizzolito, Watson and Corrazin on the field.

This is precisely what I imagine will happen this next time around. Compared to last year, the pool of players that are outside of the top sex or seven sure starters is an even bigger and more evenly matched group (maybe 30 even) of guys who will be fighting it out for not only the other starting positions but also the bench spots. Its a numbers thing - Mitch will have to leave guys out like Yallop did and will certainly not be able to guarantee any but a few guys a spot in the lineup. The question remains who we will turn away during the next cycle.

[SthMelbRed]

It may just be me, but I think one of the main criteria for selecting a national team captain has to be a 100% record for showing up. If you've ever taken a miss on playing for Canada (be it a competitive fixture or a friendly) for reasons other than injury or reasonable accomodation with the future in mind (like Friend for the last friendly), I'd say you should never get the armband. That means Radzinski is out, not that he was ever really considered.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Your suggesting veterans refused call up because they felt Yallop would make poor decisions, I think that's odd. I find it odd they would refuse WCQ and then accept to show against Austria to play one half.

But, even if they did indeed refused because they weren't sure they would start, I think they are the one to blame. I don't think it's their job to worry about PT.

The criticism of the players is valid and I always have preferred the players who showed up no matter what (Stalteri, JDG) over those who didn't, for example, Radzinski, Pesch. On the other hand it is the coach's responsibility to ensure players feel that he is choosing the team on merit and not favouritism. I think it is pretty obvious that Yallop had a lot of other criteria about who played than who was the best player at the position. Some of the things he was basing his decisions on I don't think anyone understands to this day but I think it is pretty clear that there were problems in how he rans his camps/friendlies and how he selected his squads and treated certain players. I think it is also pretty clear that the players at the camps knew this long before any of us did. The really telling thing is that Yallop had a lot of problems with players who are not the ones that most would consider our difficult players and who didn't have problems with the nororiously difficult Ossieck, Hart or Mitchell. You could make the same argument you are making about Hume. Technically it is not his place to be openly pissed off getting subbed out in WCQ for Corrazin but I don't think he was wrong to be pissed off (most of us fans were equally pissed off) and if I were him I would have been pissed off too.

[ubuntu]

1: McKenna

2: Dero

Anyone except Stalteri!

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Yes Gordon is right but in Brennan's defence I think several of the veterans saw quite early that there were some weird things going on in Yallop's selection process and that being the best player wasn't necessarily going to get you a starting spot. I think there were several players who were worried they were going to miss valuable playing time to sit on the bench for Canada while some less worthy players played. I have never heard for sure the reasons why Klukowski never played either but I suspect it is similar. This is why it is very crucial for a coach to make fair selections based on merit and not give any impression of favouritism. I guess Brennan just looked into his crystal ball and saw Peters, Gervais, Pizzolito, Watson and Corrazin on the field.

So Yallop actually called him into the squad for WCQ in 2004? And Brennan turned it down? Since 2004 I was under the assumption that he wasn't called up at all for the WCQ. I guess I should go back and read the threads about Brennan's situation during that time because I vaguely remember arguing (wrongly, I must now concede) that if Brennan wasn't playing first team football there was justification in his not being included, yada, yada, yada.

[JamesW]

Dwayne De Rosario would get my vote from what I can see. But I can not see what happens in the dressing room and on the training pitch.

[Soju]

Dwayne is a flair player who turns over the ball a lot in order to produce his magic. It'd be hard for a player in his position to give a good bollocking to his teammates for doing something silly, then on the next play try to pull off a Zidane spin in traffic and get robbed. Don't get me wrong I love the guy and he's a great spokesperson for the team but I'm for a center back or center mid wearing the armband over an attacking player like DeRo. I like Julian for captain based on his playing style (never gives the ball away, makes tackles, clutch player) but he's younger than a lot of guys including DeRo so I doubt he'll wear it. The armband will probably stay with McKenna or Stalteri.

[Guest speedmonk42]

Big Mac.

But will he be playing?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA

So Yallop actually called him into the squad for WCQ in 2004? And Brennan turned it down? Since 2004 I was under the assumption that he wasn't called up at all for the WCQ. I guess I should go back and read the threads about Brennan's situation during that time because I vaguely remember arguing (wrongly, I must now concede) that if Brennan wasn't playing first team football there was justification in his not being included, yada, yada, yada.

Brennan, Bircham and Klukowski were all called for the Belize series and not called subsequently for WCQ. Brennan subbed in in minute 65 of Game 1 and played 90 in game 2 and looked very good, scoring a goal in each game (tying him with Radzinski and DeRo for 2 goals in the series). Klukowski and Bircham both were not played in Game 1 and played 90 in Game 2. Both also impressed in Game 2 and I think Bircham had one of his best games for Canada. Afterwards none of the three were called again. When asked about Brennan Yallop stated that he had made demands to be a starter (I can't remember if he made similar claims about Klukowski, I don't think that has been explained). As far as I know we have never heard Brennan's side of the story, it would be interesting if one of the TFC guys who has contact with him would ask him. Brennan BTW while not playing a lot in the EPL did start 7 games for Norwich (6 league 1 FA) and subbed in for 4 games. Even if he wasn't getting a lot of EPL playing time I would prefer an EPL sub to the USL guys and clubless 17 year old we got instead.

The other player issues of the WCQ were Nsaliwa not getting called at all (from what I have heard he was hoping/expecting a callup) until the last game by which time we were eliminated and he refused the callup and never played for Yallop. Hirschfeld stated that he was the number 1 keeper until Yallop and came into camp expecting a competition for the position but found out that he had lost the starter position without a competition. He still showed up for WCQ as backup and then started the last meaningless game and one friendly afterwards for Yallop and then seemed to find every excuse not to play for Yallop. Aguair was called to a short training camp but was left out of the lineup for the following match (I can't remember if it was a friendly or the Belize series) and withdrew from the player pool. On this forum he claimed it was because he and Watson didn't get along and that Yallop was good buddies with Watson.

There were a few other player problems that weren't Yallop's fault but for which he could have prepared better by calling a squad with stronger bench strength: Stalteri's injuries and suspension, DeVos' misdiagnosed injury and Radzinski's suspected fake injury. McKenna and Pesch also only played one and two games respectively in the group phase of WCQ but I don't remember if this was due to injury.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Brennan, Bircham and Klukowski were all called for the Belize series and not called subsequently for WCQ. Brennan subbed in in minute 65 of Game 1 and played 90 in game 2 and looked very good, scoring a goal in each game (tying him with Radzinski and DeRo for 2 goals in the series). Klukowski and Bircham both were not played in Game 1 and played 90 in Game 2. Both also impressed in Game 2 and I think Bircham had one of his best games for Canada. Afterwards none of the three were called again. When asked about Brennan Yallop stated that he had made demands to be a starter (I can't remember if he made similar claims about Klukowski, I don't think that has been explained). As far as I know we have never heard Brennan's side of the story, it would be interesting if one of the TFC guys who has contact with him would ask him. Brennan BTW while not playing a lot in the EPL did start 7 games for Norwich (6 league 1 FA) and subbed in for 4 games. Even if he wasn't getting a lot of EPL playing time I would prefer an EPL sub to the USL guys and clubless 17 year old we got instead.

The other player issues of the WCQ were Nsaliwa not getting called at all (from what I have heard he was hoping/expecting a callup) until the last game by which time we were eliminated and he refused the callup and never played for Yallop. Hirschfeld stated that he was the number 1 keeper until Yallop and came into camp expecting a competition for the position but found out that he had lost the starter position without a competition. He still showed up for WCQ as backup and then started the last meaningless game and one friendly afterwards for Yallop and then seemed to find every excuse not to play for Yallop. Aguair was called to a short training camp but was left out of the lineup for the following match (I can't remember if it was a friendly or the Belize series) and withdrew from the player pool. On this forum he claimed it was because he and Watson didn't get along and that Yallop was good buddies with Watson.

There were a few other player problems that weren't Yallop's fault but for which he could have prepared better by calling a squad with stronger bench strength: Stalteri's injuries and suspension, DeVos' misdiagnosed injury and Radzinski's suspected fake injury. McKenna and Pesch also only played one and two games respectively in the group phase of WCQ but I don't remember if this was due to injury.

Thanks muchly for saving me the time and effort of going back over the threads which dealt with this topic many moons ago.

As I stated before, I concede that the Brennan exclusion was an error considering his age and international experience prior to that particular WCQ. That's why I have been in his camp with this go around because I believe he can contribute to the squad. Do you think that he will feel inclined to use the "don't call me unless I'm starting" line?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BearcatSAThanks muchly for saving me the time and effort of going back over the threads which dealt with this topic many moons ago.

As I stated before, I concede that the Brennan exclusion was an error considering his age and international experience prior to that particular WCQ. That's why I have been in his camp with this go around because I believe he can contribute to the squad. Do you think that he will feel inclined to use the "don't call me unless I'm starting" line?

I don't think he would do that now. Obviously my theory is based partly on what I have been able to gather on the situation and partly on speculation. However, I still feel there was something about the first camps/games under Yallop that made some of the players nervous about risking their club careers while at the same time not being played even if their play merited it. Players become more demanding when they don't have confidence in the selection process. Additionally, Brennan is a pretty solid MLS starter at the moment and not a player fighting to get playing time in what Cheetah calls the "best league in the world".

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I don't think he would do that now. Obviously my theory is based partly on what I have been able to gather on the situation and partly on speculation. However, I still feel there was something about the first camps/games under Yallop that made some of the players nervous about risking their club careers while at the same time not being played even if their play merited it. Players become more demanding when they don't have confidence in the selection process. Additionally, Brennan is a pretty solid MLS starter at the moment and not a player fighting to get playing time in what Cheetah calls the "best league in the world".

IMO I don't think he's in the position to make that kind of demand simply because there's a fair bit of competition for the spots in which he can play (left back, left mid, centre back) and he wasn't part of the successful GC run. He's got a very legitimate shot at place in the squad but faces longer odds with a selection to the starting XI.

[Soju]

Regardless of club level/playing time/politics I think most of us would agree that Brennan is just plain good when he plays for Canada so I hope he's part of the squad.

[CanadianSwede]

Brennan should be a no brainer for inclusion in the squad. He is a solid player. But then again we don't have a lot of choices of who to play. Nevertheless, Dale should stick with the squad he chooses. None of this "lets give new players opportunities". If someone is injured obviously someone will have to play. Out of the Defense, Midfield and Attack i think that our defense is the strongest. Brennan would add to it.

[gkhs]

(Not to take over the thread, but Brennan is easily EASILY one of our best 11. His career in midfield may be over, but his performances in the centre of defence with TFC, and at LB overlapping with DeRo against Costa Rica were as good as any Canadian back line player this year.)

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Not that it isn't a worthy topic of discussion or importance, but for myself I don't see this as a big issue. This will be (unless Mitchell unexpectantly pulls a Yallop & starts tossing away established players for those with no experience at all) a fairly veteran Canadian squad that will attempt to qualify for the World Cup, with the core of the players between 24 and 32. They will also have played at a higher level of play for a number of years than our previous Canadian teams. The leadership should come from the experience & talent laden throughout the squad, rather than just whoever is picked to be captain. The fact that there are so many candidates being suggested here is a testament to that. I think it would be more of an issue for me if we had a handful of veterans and a lot of promising youngsters with little experience that needed an important figure as captain to lead by example.

I think you are right regarding this topic. Thinking back to this core of players with regards to GC 07, for the most part I saw a number of examples of excellent, poised leadership demonstrated. For instance, I saw very little indisciplined, spiteful fouling (IIRC no one had to sit because of accumulated yellow cards). Also, during the semi-final, DeGuzman and his teammates maintained their cool following the Bocanegra incident, refusing to engage in a tit-for-tat style of retribution which so easily could have occurred. And in terms of sending a message, could anything beat that superb (and text book legal) shoulder challenge by the smaller Hastings which knocked the bigger Landycakes on his *ss?

[rick titus]

Onstad or DeRo no doubt. Onstad is a great veteran, and he kicks ass if his team is not playing up to par. Julian more of a leader in his play though, but he is more cerebral. Onstad is the only one that is vocal on the team outside of McKenna and Stalteri, but I think Pat is the right cappo for the Nats!