Dobson: Loud and Proud

[Winnipeg Fury]

I was at the T&T match and it still makes me angry today just thinking about it. Despite the organizing comittee's attempt to create a pro-T&T crowd, it should be noted that there were 27,000 in attendance, vastly cheering for Canada. There was also a massive screw-up at the ticket window, and thousands could not get into the stadium, while many others could not get in till halftime:

LOUD & PROUD

Canada is set to embark on a World Cup qualifying run, so stand up and be counted!

The most depressing and annoying day I have ever experienced in broadcasting soccer took place on a beautiful June day in Edmonton back in 2000.

Canada was getting set to embark on their World Cup qualifying campaign at Commonwealth Stadium against Trinidad & Tobago. I walked out on to the pitch an hour before game time to the sounds of nothing other than a steel drum band pounding out support for the visiting team. They weren't in the seating area, they were on the track at field level. Apparently the local organzing committee decided it would be a good idea to be gracious hosts and make our Carribean friends feel welcome and comfortable. It was part of a greater celebration of that country's culture.

Bad idea.

The Canadian players were dumbfounded and demoralized. I know this because I chatted with them on the spot. I have no doubt it contributed to a loss that evening.

I must pause here and tell you I have nothing against steel drum band music. In fact, I rather enjoy it. I have never visited Trinidad & Tobago, but I love a Carribean vacation. I also love the fact that central to the fabric of our country is the cultural mosaic we find from coast to coast.

But none of this has anything to do with Canada trying to get to the World Cup. Here, I see only the red maple leaf. Bottom line is that we have been too nice in the past. I'm not suggesting we treat visiting teams the way our teams get treated in Central America and the Caribbean. I don't expect our fans to make ungodly noise all night long outside their hotel room windows. I don't expect a situation where armed guards are needed to escort the away team to and from the stadium. But we owe it to our team to provide them with the best chance there is at getting to South Africa. That means full stadia, with nothing but partisan support for the home team.

It means organizing committees who are willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen. It means nothing but unqualified support in all areas. It means a celebration of Canada, a celebration whenever our national team plays on home soil. Anything less is a disservice.

There is a great debate within different factions at the CSA regarding where to play the home games next year. There are many factors to consider and the choice will involve many sleepless nights.

We have a national stadium in Toronto, and yet many of the players hate artificial turf. On the flip side, the marketing of a game here could result in a Toronto FC style crowd.

Beautiful.

We have a big stadium in Edmonton, but with that track its not a great soccer facility, and a spotty record when it comes to support.

We have a soccer mad city in Vancouver with no ideal place to play and it involves more travel for our European players. We have a new stadium in Montreal, but it's small and the level of support there is unclear.

I don't feel strongly one way or the other where the matches are played as long as the stadium is full of rabid Canadian supporters.

I can tell you this: I will be all over this issue regularly between now and next June, because I hated the way I felt that day in Edmonton. Get on board now. On June 14, it's St. Vincent and the Grenadines, perhaps at a stadium near you.

Make it red, white and loud.

[redhat]

It is ridiculous that any organizing committee in the world would not segregate

the visiting supporters from the hosts in soccer. Except in Canada. Even more

outrageous is the attempt to create a welcoming home atmosphere FOR THE VISITING TEAM.

The CSA (and the local organizing committee) fumbled on the Edmonton one. But I was in

Swangard in 2004 for the Guatemala game and found the SAME SITUATION. This definitely

make a strong case for playing in St. John's (or Winterpeg or Montreal) rather than

anywhere else.

Unless they can avoid the Chile match scenario (first U20 game), I am concerned about Toronto

creating another anti-Canada atmosphere at BMO.

The CSA dropped the ball on that one, the Voyageurs didn't.

[JB_Tito]

This what you can expect in Toronto

"our fans to make ungodly noise all night long outside their hotel room windows".

and stadium full of rabid Canadian supporters with Toronto FC style crowd.

[nolando]

lets bloody well hope so

[Ivan]

The Chile U20 game in Toronto was pretty good as far as pre-game festivities go. There was a "Soccer Festival" outside the stadium with a mainly Can-Con with the Chileans gathering in another area. The Highlanders came in during the national anthems which was good.

It was during the game that things went wrong (score aside). The Chileans did not outnumber the Canadians, but were louder and much better organized. The foreign supporters must be segregated to allow for a pro-Canadian atmosphere. If the CSA could limit the sections where they could buy tickets, even better. Unfortunately, we have eBay where all the Chileans sitting near me bought their tickets.

[david2]

New post-

Quote:

RPB-London wrote:

i was kinda embarassed by the Canadian turnout at the Ticos game!!

How bout we play Brazil in the nunuvit in febuary, We could win that one!!

Ya I was at that game, I got showered by 2 Ticos with beer after DeRo scored . We had a bit of a scuffle, but the Ticos where thrown out. Thank You security who saw the whole thing.

I agree it was embarrassing, and the price we paid for those tickets was embarrassing.

You know we laugh about the the Nunuvit thing, but we should play at night in Oct or Nov at BMO.

Other countries use altitude , heat and humidity as an advantage. We have to stop being the politically correct Canadians.

We where not politically correct when we scheduled that 86 world cup qualifier in Newfoundland.

And if we let the supporters groups distribute some of the tickets we could a BMO TFC type crowd.

I know this probably is not the right forum, but I'm passionate about my country and have those great memories from 86 in Newfoundland.

I think is is the best team we have had since then, and have a great chance to go to South Africa. I want to feel that proud again.

I would like to see one of our TFC vouchers for a World Cup Qualifier at BMO.

Imagine the emotion, A game that really stands for something .

Sorry for rambling anybody have thoughts.

[Lomonty]

U20 games had a very Leaf game like atmosphere, I sat 8th row at the 50 yard line and was rowdy each time people though you were greated for showing emotion.... Thank god I got to know everyone around me for the championship game cause that was the most fun I every had a sporting event.

I was at The Sept 12 game too. The attendance was **** and even worse the overall attitude of Canadians attending. Most were burnt out from work and traffic and couldn't get into anything cause of how sparce and spread the crowd was. I was in a pack of 4 guys, who drank a "Mickey" of Bacardi on the Go-Train, snuck another into BMO and were ready to be loud and obnoxious... Originally sitting around the north end, we quickly greated off after seeing the support in the south stand. The atmosphere was great lotta camaraderie between the fans. I'd like to see more traditional Canadian chants going with the next qualifiers and friendlies "Here we go Canada" is a classic and how about a Stadium wide Socialble at 1st half and 2nd half kick off.

At any rate lookin foward to WCQ games at BMO next year....

HERE WE GO CANADA.......HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!

[Daniel]

The issue is not about segregating fans or even selling only to Canadians, because we have seen time and time again that most of the "away" fans are Canadian citizens and residents. Beyond "turning" them (which, if possible, can only be done with on-the-field results), the CSA needs to find a way to distribute as many tickets (%-wise) to a pro-Canadian crowd.

That would mean probably playing in a small stadium (so as to release the least amount of tickets to the "general" public) and finding ways to reach Canada fans willing to plunk down for tickets. This can mean priority sale to season-ticket holders, advance sales to people who subscribe to a certain CSA list, etc.

As much as I would be pissed if all these conditions made it so I could not buy a ticket, I'd rather see a pro-Canada crowd created because of it.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

The issue is not about segregating fans or even selling only to Canadians, because we have seen time and time again that most of the "away" fans are Canadian citizens and residents. Beyond "turning" them (which, if possible, can only be done with on-the-field results), the CSA needs to find a way to distribute as many tickets (%-wise) to a pro-Canadian crowd.

That would mean probably playing in a small stadium (so as to release the least amount of tickets to the "general" public) and finding ways to reach Canada fans willing to plunk down for tickets. This can mean priority sale to season-ticket holders, advance sales to people who subscribe to a certain CSA list, etc.

As much as I would be pissed if all these conditions made it so I could not buy a ticket, I'd rather see a pro-Canada crowd created because of it.

And when it was suggested a CSA initiated fan based organisation with a fee to have first kick at tickets was tossed up ..what was the response on this board... Dobson is saying what has been said here .. the reality is the CSA wont do ..diddly squat.

It will be the same shambles.

[ag futbol]

The problem was with the "fee". As an organization that needs fan why would you put up a barrier to initial entry? There was nothing wrong with the rest of it.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

The problem was with the "fee". As an organization that needs fan why would you put up a barrier to initial entry? There was nothing wrong with the rest of it.

Exactly. I am subscribed to their bootroom e-mails and there is no reason why subscribers to this could not be given special offers on tickets.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Trillium

And when it was suggested a CSA initiated fan based organisation with a fee to have first kick at tickets was tossed up ..what was the response on this board... Dobson is saying what has been said here .. the reality is the CSA wont do ..diddly squat.

It will be the same shambles.

Can't say I disagree with Daniel on any point he's raised.

And like Trilliam, I'm not altogether against an "official" CSA ticket buyers scheme. Don't quite see what the problem is. A regular practice for both club and country in many European nations.

The CSA shouldn't be a-feard of milking MNT matches for all they're worth. If you can't out and out bar the foreign support from the venues then soak them for all they're worth. Make the best buck off them that you can. "Them" being the foreign supporters.

This isn't too complicated. Make pre-public sales available only to certain CSA registered and approved groups.

For members of the public who don't belong to these groups allow them to sign up on the CSA website to a Canadian Soccer supporters group if they wish to access pre-public ticket sales. Membership isn't free of course. Charge for it and then make sure the tickets are mailed out.

Ooop. Got to charge an extra handling fee for out of country mailing addresses and an additional service fee for billings to credit cards which aren't registered domestically.

Sorry, did I mention only two tickets per billing address?

Handling fees will apply for tickets posted beyond the 1st two to the same address (up to the maximum of 4 tickets per billing address).

Got to guard against scalpers don't you know.

The good news is that by becoming a member of the official CSA WCQ'ing ticket scheme group, not only do you get pre-public sales access to tickets but you'll also get a coupon worth X dollars against the purchase of future tickets for MNT events or in-stadia sales on all CSA wear and gear.

You know, the sort of stuff Canadian supporters can really take advantage of (and get some of their money back from the CSA for registering. What's that? No Jamaican kits in the CSA shop at BMO Field, Ohhh. That's too bad. Guess if your a Reggie Boy your CSA coupon ain't worth ****).

Or if all that's too complicated and financial unprofitable because of the labour needs (very likely, but money well spent as far as I can see), then dumb it down.

***

No group sales, period. At least not to organizations which haven't been registered and pre-approved with the CSA 1st. If the CSA has to reserve X tickets for travelling fans, stick them up in the nose bleed section where they belong and release unsold tickets immediately to the public when the sales deadline passes.

Enforce</u> with greatest enthusiasm seat placement. No squatting allowed. Bring in Spanish speaking security and be prepared to make an example of some poor suckers well before kick off so the rest get the message. Stay in your seats or you'll be tossed out. No ifs, ands, or buts. You paid for seat XYZ, not ABC.

If there is a will, there is a way. The bhoys over at the CSA may need to be demanding. They may need to be imaginative, sly, and willing to take on the criticisms, labour and financial needs of the task at hand. But if they want to, they can make a bit of money off the "wrong" sorts of people who show up for Canada matches and serve the greater good all the while that they're doing it.

[Soju]

quote:Originally posted by david2

I know this probably is not the right forum, but I'm passionate about my country and have those great memories from 86 in Newfoundland.

Um, I think this is the right forum.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Can't say I disagree with Daniel on any point he's raised.

And like Trilliam, I'm not altogether against an "official" CSA ticket buyers scheme. Don't quite see what the problem is. A regular practice for both club and country in many European nations.

The CSA shouldn't be a-feard of milking MNT matches for all they're worth. If you can't out and out bar the foreign support from the venues then soak them for all they're worth. Make the best buck off them that you can. "Them" being the foreign supporters.

This isn't too complicated. Make pre-public sales available only to certain CSA registered and approved groups.

For members of the public who don't belong to these groups allow them to sign up on the CSA website to a Canadian Soccer supporters group if they wish to access pre-public ticket sales. Membership isn't free of course. Charge for it and then make sure the tickets are mailed out.

Ooop. Got to charge an extra handling fee for out of country mailing addresses and an additional service fee for billings to credit cards which aren't registered domestically.

Sorry, did I mention only two tickets per billing address?

Handling fees will apply for tickets posted beyond the 1st two to the same address (up to the maximum of 4 tickets per billing address).

Got to guard against scalpers don't you know.

The good news is that by becoming a member of the official CSA WCQ'ing ticket scheme group, not only do you get pre-public sales access to tickets but you'll also get a coupon worth X dollars against the purchase of future tickets for MNT events or in-stadia sales on all CSA wear and gear.

You know, the sort of stuff Canadian supporters can really take advantage of (and get some of their money back from the CSA for registering. What's that? No Jamaican kits in the CSA shop at BMO Field, Ohhh. That's too bad. Guess if your a Reggie Boy your CSA coupon ain't worth ****).

Or if all that's too complicated and financial unprofitable because of the labour needs (very likely, but money well spent as far as I can see), then dumb it down.

***

No group sales, period. At least not to organizations which haven't been registered and pre-approved with the CSA 1st. If the CSA has to reserve X tickets for travelling fans, stick them up in the nose bleed section where they belong and release unsold tickets immediately to the public when the sales deadline passes.

Enforce</u> with greatest enthusiasm seat placement. No squatting allowed. Bring in Spanish speaking security and be prepared to make an example of some poor suckers well before kick off so the rest get the message. Stay in your seats or you'll be tossed out. No ifs, ands, or buts. You paid for seat XYZ, not ABC.

If there is a will, there is a way. The bhoys over at the CSA may need to be demanding. They may need to be imaginative, sly, and willing to take on the criticisms, labour and financial needs of the task at hand. But if they want to, they can make a bit of money off the "wrong" sorts of people who show up for Canada matches and serve the greater good all the while that they're doing it.

While I thought your idea was a bit harsh at 1st after thinking about it, I have to agree. I would be more then willing to pay for advance tickets sales for WCQ.

I would think and hope that after the Can/Tico game that holding the south end for Canadian fans will be the new norm. I do think it needs to be better handled though. Although where I was, there were no Tico fans, just Canadian fans trying to sing and support the team.

[JB_Tito]

It's nice to see that enthusiasms about OUR MNT is spreading around pretty good.

I was surfing around and RPB and they can't wait for WCQ to start.

http://s3.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=2561&threadid=240249

I find this one interesting for few reasons.

quote:To me, there is only one way to solve the problem of visiting supporters infesting BMO for WC qualifiers.

First, the CSA has to make all the south end seats inexpensive and exclusive to Voyageurs, RPB and U-sector exclusively (omission of TRN is not an accident). I know this was done on a partial basis for the Ticos game with chunks of tickets available at a special price if you entered a password into the Ticketmaster online ordering form.

All 3 of these groups would then PM each member with the password. Posting the password online would be strictly forbidden and the mods would delete as neccessary. The reason for the secrecy: scalpers were buying up tickets for the Costa Rica game. The people beside me bought off scalpers and those particular seats were only available through the Voyageurs with the link to TM and the password posted publicly on their site.

Each of us would then buy as many as we could afford or expect to be able to sell to the right people. Tickets for the CR game could be had for $9 plus service charge. Buying up the entire 5000 seats in the south end is do-able.

Secondly, give TFC season ticket holders first crack at the more expensive tickets for the remainder of the stadium, with an email from TFC informing ST holders of the demoralization problems the visitors have caused Canada in the past.

If even just 50% of TFC STH opted to buy, this would go a long way toward filling the stadium with the people who should be there.

Visitors would be given 105. If they wanted more, it's sorry but GFYS.

Every remaining ticket in BMO would then be priced at $100 or more.

To post password on any supporter site should be a big no no in the future or we can forget about South stands for Canadian supporters only.

[SthMelbRed]

quote:Originally posted by Lomonty

I'd like to see more traditional Canadian chants going with the next qualifiers and friendlies "Here we go Canada" is a classic and how about a Stadium wide Socialble at 1st half and 2nd half kick off.

HERE WE GO CANADA.......HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!

90 minutes of pro-Canada singing and chanting would go a long way. How about one taken from Dobson's "Red, White, and Proud" comment.

We're Red, We're White,

The other guys are sh*te!

Ca-na-da! Ca-na-da!

Perhaps there needs to a sticky thread on this forum where songs and chants can be put up for approval by the fans on here in preparation for the WCQ. Anybody can submit one, and the ones that are any good will catch on for the qualifiers.

[Daniel]

Look up in the Voyageurs sub-forum .

[piltdownman]

I've been reading some literature from fifa:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/fifa_safety_guidelines_e_1785.pdf

From Article 7 Spectator areas (p10):

"The sectors for the fans of the two opposing teams shall be kept as far away from each other as possible. Partitions separating these sectors from other spectator areas shall be particularly strong and stable. The sector for away fans shall have its own entry point. The route to this entry point should cross as few routes as possible that are to be used by other spectators."

From Article 25 Supporter liaison officer (p18):

"The supporter liaison officer shall take the following measures in particular to meet the objectives stated in point 1 above:

...

– Mixing with spectators during home and away matches, and intervening in danger-ous situations;"

So to me that means if any problem happen with away fans, We should demand to report it to the Supporter liaison officer. Maybe I'm crazy but this might lead to Fifa forcing the CSA to have an away section, and not mixed seats.

[Daniel]

Away sections are usually defined by country of purchase. As has been mentioned time and time again, a great proportion of the opposing fans are usually from Canada.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Away sections are usually defined by country of purchase. As has been mentioned time and time again, a great proportion of the opposing fans are usually from Canada.

That's true. It's just that the CSA or ticketmaster or the organizing

committees, do not have the marketing foresight to arrange such

special sections. I'm sure Ticos want to sit with other Tico fans.

What's so hard about asking, "Canadian section or Tico section?"

during the ticket purchase process? Why don't they reserve the

"nicest" (read: pricier) sections for our visitors? They'd pay anyway.

[jpg75]

That's what happened in September, the Ticos were buying the $75 and $100 tickets...suckers! []

[Scottie]

True, but there were still some ticos scattered in the south end where they didn't belong. We should just have ushers to move fans if they're in the wrong section, regardless of where they bought the ticket for. Of course, this would have to be after they were asked which team they were supporting when they purchase the ticket. If they lie and say Canada, then TS for them.

[Cashcleaner]

Wait a second. I'm a bit confused. Didn't Fury and others once accuse several Toronto FC supporters (myself included) of being boorish hooligan-wannabes who had no real clue about Canadian soccer?

Has the presence of these same Toronto FC supporters during the U-20 tourney and recent Canada v. Costa Rica changed the minds of some people?

I know it sounds a lot like I'm trying to stir things up, but have we been vindicated now for our support of the National team? I'd be the first to admit that until recently, the both the CSA mens and womens teams didn't show up on my personal radar. I did attend the Scotland v. Canada match in Edinburgh way back in 2002 (or was it 2001?). But, now that Toronto has a proper venue for soccer, it's a lot easier to attend live matches for myself and others. In the past, it often wasn't that straightforward as buying a ticket and taking the GO train into town.

[redhat]

I'm sure Winnipeg Fury is impressed you showed up and would be encouraging

you to bring lots more than 10K that showed up for the Tico game. (I personally

don't think that Fury ever maintained that you and the TFCers are hooligans,

unless you can offer proof to the contrary.)

Having a great stadium in T.O. provides an opportunity to support our MNT,

but it also provides a venue for the VISITING SUPPORTERS. It is up to everyone,

especially the T.O. Voyaguers to make sure it is a PRO-CANADA atmosphere.

And yes there are people who support TFC and not our national team.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:Originally posted by Scottie

True, but there were still some ticos scattered in the south end where they didn't belong. We should just have ushers to move fans if they're in the wrong section, regardless of where they bought the ticket for. Of course, this would have to be after they were asked which team they were supporting when they purchase the ticket. If they lie and say Canada, then TS for them.

Yeah, I don't know what was up with that. How hard could it be for Ticketmaster to specifically state that the south end of BMO is for Canadian supporters, while some other section is for visitors? Other sports teams in this country have sold tickets in this way. The Argos, for instance, commonly sell tickets on the east side of the Skydome for home fans and tickets on the west side for visiting fans.