MLS Expansion (Philadelphia or St. Louis)

[Luis_Rancagua]

Nine cities express interest in MLS

Associated Press

Posted: 6 days ago

With San Jose and Seattle already in, Philadelphia and St. Louis could be the next cities to join Major League Soccer.

MLS commissioner Don Garber on Friday listed nine cities as candidates for expansion, with the Philadelphia and the St. Louis at the top of the list.

"Our focus today is more than likely on those two," Garber said in his state of the league address at the National Press Club.

With the decision earlier this season that San Jose will begin play next year and Tuesday's announcement that Seattle will start in 2009, MLS has grown to 15 teams. Garber said the goal is to add a "16th by the end of the year."

He also said the league is seeking to have 18 teams by 2010-11.

Besides Philadelphia - which had two teams in the old North American Soccer League - and St. Louis, which has been a traditional base of support for the sport, Garber noted interest from Arthur Blank, owner of the Atlanta Falcons in the NFL, and Fred Wilpon, owner of Major League Baseball's New York Mets. Las Vegas, Miami, Montreal, Portland, and Vancouver, British Columbia are also possibilities, he said.

[Daniel]

Can you try and put more descriptive titles for your threads? Thanks.

[Crazy_Yank]

MLS needs St. Louis. Before MLS is was America's soccer city. The general public in SLS knows about soccer and likes soccer. Their indoor team draws very well. St. Louis University is the original college soccer dynasty. Every single US world cup team has had at least one St. Louis player on it. Put the stadium in the right spot and you'd see Toronto Version 2.0.

Here is a little info on St. Louis soccer history

http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/saintlouis.html

[Cashcleaner]

Philly does sound like a great candidate city for an MLS franchise, but I'm still holding out for Montreal and Vancouver.

[Bill Ault]

Miami is a strong possibility with a possible new downtown stadium in the works...

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault

Miami is a strong possibility with a possible new downtown stadium in the works...

According to...?

I'd bu surprised that MLS would want to return to a city they contracted.

[Luis_Rancagua]

Anyone here has any ideas as to when MLS is expected to render the last final decision with regard to last MLS entry bid???

[RS]

I've heard that they'll be making a decision around March/April of next year.

[Luis_Rancagua]

Guys, here's the latest news on expansion. After reading this article, I'm now ever convinced that Philly is perhaps the obvious choice than the St. Louis bid.

------------------------------------

Philadelphia, St. Louis loom as favorites as league nears adding 16th franchise.

By Robert Wagman

SoccerTimes

(Sunday, December 23, 2007) -- Major League Soccer hopes to announce the awarding of a 16th franchise next month and it appears clear the choice will either be Philadelphia or St. Louis.

MLS played with 13 teams in 2007, an odd number which left at least one team idle each weekend. San Jose will rejoin the league in 2008 and even though the team will be called the Earthquakes, it will be an expansion franchise owned by a group headed by investor-operators Lew Wolff and John Fisher.

Wolff is co-owner\managing partner of Major League Baseball's Oakland Athletics. The soccer team will play in a temporary setting, Santa Clara University's Buck Shaw Stadium, for two seasons, while a new stadium is built as part of a large development adjacent to the San Jose airport.

MLS has already announced that Seattle will join the league for the 2009 season with an ownership group that includes Hollywood producer\executive Joe Roth, Adrian Hanauer, managing partner of the second-division Seattle Sounders; actor Drew Carey and Microsoft founder Paul Allen's Vulcan Sports and Entertainment. VSE owns the National Football League's Seattle Seahawks and its venue Qwest Field, where the MLS club will play.

VSE also owns the National Basketball Association's Portland Trail Blazers and their arena, the Rose Garden.

MLS wants to get to 16 teams by 2010 and is in active negotiations with a number of communities and potential ownership groups, but the two that are furthest along are Philadelphia and St. Louis. Both are markets MLS has long coveted and it is likely whichever ownership\stadium situation works itself out first will earn the franchise.

The oddity of the current situation is that the two are in completely opposite situations. Philadelphia has an ownership group with deep pockets, but has not finalized a stadium deal. St. Louis has a stadium waiting to be built, but the organizers have not yet put together an ownership group that meets MLS standards.

In Philadelphia, an ownership group which includes Jay Sugarman, chief executive officer of the New York-based iStar Financial; James Nevels, a Swarthmore, Pa., businessman; Wilmington, Del., developers, brothers Christopher Buccini, and Robert Buccini, and David Pollin; and lawyer William Doran are ready to ante up a $30 million expansion fee, plus their share of building a new stadium.

For more than a year, the ownership group and MLS has been in intense negotiations to build a $115-million soccer-specific stadium that would sit at the foot of the Commodore Barry Bridge in Pennsylvania's Delaware County. The county pledged $30 million to the project, but the holdup is $45 million in state funds, something supported by Governor Ed Rendell, but not yet approved by the state legislature.

The Pennsylvania legislature was expected to act before it adjourned for the holidays, but did not. Now, it is said a decision won't come before mid-January and possibly not until the end of the month.

In St. Louis, local lawyer Jeff Cooper, who is leading a still forming ownership group, has persuaded the Illinois suburb of Collinsville to build a new soccer complex, including a stadium for an MLS team. The public funding for the project is essentially in place, but Cooper is still struggling to put together his final ownership group.

At last month's MLS Cup, Garber, in effect, said if the stadium deal is approved by the Pennsylvania legislature, Philadelphia will get the 16th franchise. "Philadelphia is very close," Garber said. "It's at the finish line. If (the funding) happens, then Philadelphia has the inside track. If it doesn't happen, Philadelphia could go way down the list.

"We've spent the last year in negotiations with the city of Chester and Delaware County ,and the state of Pennsylvania, trying to put together a package for a stadium that would sit on the waterfront in Chester. If the deal falls apart, we have no sense as to when it could come back together. It certainly puts (Philadelphia) much further down."

If Philadelphia fails and Cooper in St. Louis nails down an acceptable ownership group, MLS will find its way to a market it has wanted to be in MLS since the league was formed in 1996. "Our near-term goal is to have 16 teams in this league, with an announcement on that 16th team by the end of the year," Garber said. "If we are unable to finalize that 16th team by Jan. 31, 2008, then we will likely make a decision to play with 15 teams in 2009."

What then? MLS would like to grow to 18 teams, the maximum allowed by world governing body FIFA for first-division leagues around the world. Garber rattled off a list of cities that would be in the running, obviously led by the loser of the St. Louis-Philadelphia face-off.

In alphabetical order, Garber said cities currently in the running are Atlanta, Las Vegas, Miami, Fla.; Montreal, a second team in the New York market, Portland, Ore., and Vancouver.

SoccerTimes was told off-the-record by an MLS official that the top candidate would be New York City with a soccer-specific stadium built adjacent to Citi Field, the Mets' new stadium, set to open next to Shea Stadium in Flushing, Queens, in 2009. The league envisions a bitter rivalry between this club and the New York Red Bulls, who are based in New Jersey. League sources admitted, however, getting this done would be hugely complicated and largely dependent on the development of Citi Field.

Beyond this, a number of the potential deals could be positive for MLS. The league believes it badly needs an East Coast franchise south of Washington, D.C., which would mean either Atlanta or Miami. Arthur Blank, owner of the NFL's Atlanta Falcons, is reportedly ready to get on board and that would be a big "get" for the league.

On Tuesday, Miami Dade County officials expressed their willingness to put $50 million toward a soccer stadium, as part of a massive redevelopment project, which would also include a new stadium for baseball's Florida Marlins, where the Orange Bowl today stands.

A second team in Canada would be a huge boost for the league, so Montreal and Vancouver could be attractive. Both cities currently have teams in the second-tier United Soccer Leagues First Division and owners who would undoubtedly like to join MLS, but both have stadium issues. Greg Kerfoot, owner of the Vancouver Whitecaps, is trying to get approval to build a soccer stadium on public land downtown. If he gets it, his effort to join MLS would get a huge lift.

"We don't want to expand for expansion's sake," Garber said. "We're not in any rush to expand. We're going to wait for the right plan, right market, right owners and the right facility."

Robert Wagman is SoccerTimes senior correpondent.

[Bxl Boy]

Stadium issues in Montreal ?

It has, from all the candidates, the highest sum in the addition Stadium + owner

[Trident]

Yeah matt, I've seen recently in a lot of articles people mention how "far along STL and Philly are" but then go on to mentioning the "problems" in Montreal.

I guess

problems=requirements

"far along"=behind

within the borders of America.

[Grizzly]

quote:Stadium issues in Montreal ?

It has, from all the candidates, the highest sum in the addition Stadium + owner

quote:Originally posted by Trident

Yeah matt, I've seen recently in a lot of articles people mention how "far along STL and Philly are" but then go on to mentioning the "problems" in Montreal.

I guess

problems=requirements

"far along"=behind

within the borders of America.

Well there are certainly stadium issues in Montreal even though the stadium is new although we have discussed them at length on the stadium thread. A summary of the Montreal stadium issues is:

-currently not at MLS level seating capacity

-maximum expansion of the stadium will probably only bring it barely over MLS capacity requirements-the small size of the building plot really limits how big this stadium can be

-the stadium was conceived as a USL stadium and while it is certainly top notch for that league seems to be a bit below par in terms of structural quality and facilities for the MLS (and we don't need to discuss again some of the poor temporary stadiums that a few teams are using)

In regards to the owner there is no doubt that the Saputos are very wealthy. Yet one also has to consider how much of their own wealth they willing to spend and possibly lose on a MLS team. Certainly they have done a lot to keep the Impact running but they have been using an awful lot of public funds to do this as opposed to their own money. An owner with a small fortune that he is willing to spend on the team is better than one who is extremely rich but cheap with the team. Kerfoot for example, despite the stadium zoning problems which are not his fault, seems to put a lot more money into the Caps than the Saputos put into the Impact.

The new stadium and solid ownership may be enough to get Montreal into the MLS and I hope it is. However, I think there are some very serious and legitimate issues about Montreal's MLS candidacy and it is certainly not inappopriate or unfair for journalists to mention these. The Saputo's are not building Wembley stadium or even BMO so it is certainly not a given that MLS will find the stadium to its standards.

[Grizzly]

quote:Stadium issues in Montreal ?

It has, from all the candidates, the highest sum in the addition Stadium + owner

quote:Originally posted by Trident

Yeah matt, I've seen recently in a lot of articles people mention how "far along STL and Philly are" but then go on to mentioning the "problems" in Montreal.

I guess

problems=requirements

"far along"=behind

within the borders of America.

Well there are certainly stadium issues in Montreal even though the stadium is new although we have discussed them at length on the stadium thread. A summary of the Montreal stadium issues is:

-currently not at MLS level seating capacity

-maximum expansion of the stadium will probably only bring it barely over MLS capacity requirements-the small size of the building plot really limits how big this stadium can be

-the stadium was conceived as a USL stadium and while it is certainly top notch for that league seems to be a bit below par in terms of structural quality and facilities for the MLS (and we don't need to discuss again some of the poor temporary stadiums that a few teams are using)

In regards to the owner there is no doubt that the Saputos are very wealthy. Yet one also has to consider how much of their own wealth they willing to spend and possibly lose on a MLS team. Certainly they have done a lot to keep the Impact running but they have been using an awful lot of public funds to do this as opposed to their own money. An owner with a small fortune that he is willing to spend on the team is better than one who is extremely rich but cheap with the team. Kerfoot for example, despite the stadium zoning problems which are not his fault, seems to put a lot more money into the Caps than the Saputos put into the Impact.

The new stadium and solid ownership may be enough to get Montreal into the MLS and I hope it is. However, I think there are some very serious and legitimate issues about Montreal's MLS candidacy and it is certainly not inappopriate or unfair for journalists to mention these. The Saputo's are not building Wembley stadium or even BMO so it is certainly not a given that MLS will find the stadium to its standards.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Columbus Crew Stadium isn't exactly Wembley either so I think they are still in with a shout. If anything is potentially problematic it's the rumours about Lino Saputo having links to the mafia. That really needs to be definitively knocked on the head. I strongly suspect it will be American teams up to 18 and Canadian cities will only get a look in after that. This 18 as a maximum allowed by FIFA stuff is completely bogus but no doubt helps to put pressure on people to actually close the deal.

Right now Miami and Philadelphia are looking very good from an SSS standpoint. Think St. Louis would be in by now if it were going to happen. There seem to be issues as to whether the would be I/O group there is sufficiently wealthy. I suspect Atlanta would be high on the agenda from a broadcast footprint standpoint so they might be #18 if everything goes to plan in Miami and Philadelphia.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Columbus Crew Stadium isn't exactly Wembley either so I think they are still in with a shout. If anything is potentially problematic it's the rumours about Lino Saputo having links to the mafia. That really needs to be definitively knocked on the head. I strongly suspect it will be American teams up to 18 and Canadian cities will only get a look in after that. This 18 as a maximum allowed by FIFA stuff is completely bogus but no doubt helps to put pressure on people to actually close the deal.

Right now Miami and Philadelphia are looking very good from an SSS standpoint. Think St. Louis would be in by now if it were going to happen. There seem to be issues as to whether the would be I/O group there is sufficiently wealthy. I suspect Atlanta would be high on the agenda from a broadcast footprint standpoint so they might be #18 if everything goes to plan in Miami and Philadelphia.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, as much as I would love to see Montreal come in in 2009 as the 16th team, MLS' priority seems to be in Philly, St. Louis, Miami and Atlanta. I don't think Montreal will come in until Vancouver is ready, then they'll come in as a pair.

Hope I am wrong.

[Luis_Rancagua]

Why can MLS accept both Philly and St. Louis at the same time. These are two great markets. What are the consequences of accepting both teams at the same time. Just recently (before Christmas), the Australian Hyundai A-League are in the planning process of announcing the entry of 2 or perhaps 3 new teams in the league. Two from the Gold Coast and perhaps one more bid that may come from either Adelaide or the island of Tasmania. Presently Adelaide already has a club in the A-League (Adelaide United). What they are looking for here is a cross-town rival that will add to the competition in the region.

[Luis_Rancagua]

It now appears from this article that if St. Louis looses the bid, they will still challenge for another bid until they officially become the the 17th entry to MLS. This whole race is becoming very interesting.

------------------------------------

St. Louis and Phila. battle for pro soccer

The money is here; they have the real estate.

By Jeff Gammage

Inquirer Staff Writer

St. Louis has a stadium deal, but not enough wealthy investors.

Philadelphia has rich investors, but no commitment for a stadium.

That's how the competition stands as the bidding for a pro soccer expansion team enters its final weeks, with league officials expected to announce the winner in January.

How proponents in each city can enhance their plans will help determine if their city is picked to host Major League Soccer's 16th team.

"We're working hard and trying to show MLS what St. Louis can do," said Jeff Cooper, the millionaire lawyer who leads St. Louis Soccer United.

At the moment, the bids of the two cities are inverse mirror images, each one lacking what the other already has.

"If I were a betting a person, I'd put the money on Philadelphia," said Victor Matheson, an assistant professor at Holy Cross College who studies the economics of sports. "I'd guess the size of the market and the deep pockets [of the ownership group] would trump the soccer tradition of St. Louis."

But don't send money for season tickets just yet.

People familiar with MLS can envision alternate scenarios, including the possibility that both cities could be awarded teams, or that a less-known contender could emerge at the last minute.

In MLS, San Diego sportswriter Mark Zeigler noted, "if you show up at the league offices with a wad of cash and blueprints for a 20,000-seat stadium, you immediately jump to the head of the class." And on Dec. 18 Florida officials got in line, when the Miami-Dade County Commission approved a giant public works project that includes $50 million for a new soccer stadium.

Last month, MLS commissioner Don Garber named St. Louis the front-runner, with Philadelphia's chances contingent on acquiring $45 million in state funding to help build a stadium. But league executives also have been complimentary about Miami and other cities.

MLS officials say expansion clubs must have a soccer stadium or a commitment to build one, well-financed local ownership, and a market that's supportive of the game and attractive to sponsors.

Even against that less-than-explicit criteria, it's difficult to evaluate the merits of the two bids. Neither group has released detailed financial information. But some things are known, and it's plain that each city has certain distinct advantages over the other.

For instance, comparing the markets of both towns shows there is, well, no comparison.

In metro area population, Philadelphia ranks fourth in the nation, St. Louis 18th. In households with televisions, Philadelphia is fourth, St. Louis 21st.

"If it's a jump ball, we're the fourth-largest market and they're not," said former TV sports anchor Carl Cherkin, in the 1970s the public-relations officer for the Philadelphia Atoms of the old North American Soccer League and now helping to lure an MLS team here.

But St. Louis has a big asset: a stadium agreement in hand. In September the city council of nearby Collinsville, Ill., approved a $400 million plan to build a 18,500-seat stadium surrounded by sports fields, stores, offices, 1,600 housing units and two 120-room hotels.

"We are a turnkey deal for MLS," Cooper said. He means the only thing St. Louis needs is league approval - with that, it's turn the key and start the games.

Collinsville, 10 miles east of downtown St. Louis, is a community of 25,250 people that's home to a thoroughbred racetrack, the archeological remains of a Native American city, and the world's largest ketchup bottle, actually a 170-foot water tower. The ketchup bottle has its own Web site, fan club and souvenir T-shirt, and serves as something of a tourist draw.

But Cooper acknowledged the St. Louis bid suffers from a key deficiency: shallow pockets.

The league wants him to add investors who can demonstrate substantial personal net worth. For instance, the ownership of the new Seattle expansion franchise includes the Microsoft billionaire Paul Allen.

"We are moving toward strengthening the ownership group and making sure it's up to MLS standards," Cooper said.

Cooper is the managing partner of SimmonsCooper L.L.C., a law firm that specializes in asbestos cases. The firm has recovered more than $1 billion in verdicts and settlements for 10,000 clients during the last decade.

The other known investor in St. Louis Soccer United is Michael Huyghue, the new commissioner of the fledgling United Football League, which intends to start play in August as an eight-team pro league. Huyghue held senior management positions with the Detroit Lions and Jacksonville Jaguars before launching Axcess Sports & Entertainment in Jacksonville, Fla., which represents NFL and NBA players.

Efforts to reach Huyghue were unsuccessful.

"Clearly, the league has a long-term vision for strong local ownership," said Derek Aframe, former vice president of the New England Revolution and now an executive at Octagon, a sports-and-entertainment consultant. "They're looking for owners who are going to be there 10 years down the road."

That's a strength of the Philadelphia group, which wants to build a $115 million riverside stadium in the impoverished city of Chester.

Investors include iStar Financial chief executive officer Jay Sugarman, whose total compensation has been estimated by Forbes magazine at as much as $32.9 million a year. Others are James Nevels, founder and chairman of the Swarthmore Group, an investment firm that manages $1.7 billion in assets, and Wilmington developers Robert and Christopher Buccini, brothers who with David Pollin own the Buccini/Pollin Group Inc., which builds and runs hotel, office and retail properties across the Northeast.

The group sees the stadium as the centerpiece of a $500 million complex featuring stores, restaurants and offices. But it needs $45 million from the state to get started, and it's unclear if the legislature will approve the money.

State Senate Majority Leader Dominic Pileggi says he's optimistic, and the governor supports the project, but others are opposed.

Last week, State Rep. RoseMarie Swanger (R., Lebanon) pledged to introduce legislation to limit stadium spending. With bridges and roads in bad shape, she said, the state should not spend millions on a sport that has failed twice in Philadelphia.

Another factor will influence MLS officials: tradition. Experts say that even in bottom-line 2007, when dollars seem to count for everything, tradition still counts for something because, in a city where soccer is ingrained, a pro team can be hugely successful even if it's not broadly popular.

Today, the American fan base is sufficiently sizable that soccer doesn't have to be the most popular sport in a given market. It only has to be the most popular among soccer fans, because there are enough of them to fill an 18,000-seat stadium 15 or 20 times a year.

St. Louis proponents tout their soccer legacy as unmatched. City native Robert Hermann was instrumental in creating the North American Soccer League. St. Louis University is a soccer power whose men's teams have won a record 10 NCAA championships. And the city played a crucial role in one of the greatest victories in American soccer history.

In 1950, a national team recruited largely from St. Louis defeated heavily favored England during the World Cup playoffs in Brazil, the 1-0 win celebrated in the 2005 film The Game of Their Lives.

Backers here insist Philadelphia's soccer lore is second to none.

"All due respect to St. Louis," said Cherkin, the former sportscaster, "we'd match them leg for leg. . . . The two Walters, Walter Bahr and Walter Chyzowych, have had more impact on soccer than anybody who has passed through the arch."

Chyzowych was a legendary striker at Temple University, coach at what was then Philadelphia College of Textiles and Science, and also coached the U.S. national and Olympic teams. Bahr ranks among the best American players of all time. It was Bahr who assisted on the goal that beat England.

MLS plans to announce a decision by the end of January.

"We're not going away," Cooper said. "If the 16th team is Philadelphia, the St. Louis group is sticking around and trying to be No. 17."

Contact staff writer Jeff Gammage at 610-313-8110 or jgammage@phillynews.com.

Find this article at:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20071226_St__Louis_and_Phila__battle_for_pro_soccer.html

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Columbus Crew Stadium isn't exactly Wembley either so I think they are still in with a shout. If anything is potentially problematic it's the rumours about Lino Saputo having links to the mafia. That really needs to be definitively knocked on the head. I strongly suspect it will be American teams up to 18 and Canadian cities will only get a look in after that. This 18 as a maximum allowed by FIFA stuff is completely bogus but no doubt helps to put pressure on people to actually close the deal.

Columbus Crew Stadium isn't exactly Wembley but it is definitely a class higher as a stadium than Saputo stadium. Not to mention it already has a capacity of 22555 while on the small plot of land Saputo stadium is located it will be a challenge even to get capacity to 18 000. I mention Wembley only because the way some of the Impact supporters here are talking about us being the obvious choice or a shoo-in for an MLS franchise you would think we are building Wembley. I never understood why if MLS or a higher league than USL was the goal (and quite possibly it was not the goal at the time even though it should have been) they did not build a stadium that was well within the typically quality of stadium for such a league instead of building a USL level stadium. Obviously it was much cheaper to build this style of stadium though. Columbus Crew Stadium was built for about 10 million more than Saputo stadium was so for about 10 million more (small change for the Saputos) they could have had a stadium that would really make the MLS bid strong. Presently we are in the case of trying to enter a race of luxury and mid-sized cars with a cheap subcompact car and saying, "but it is new and we got a great deal for the money." Even an expanded Saputo stadium will at best barely meet the MLS stadium requirements.

The Impact have two things going for it, the ownership and TFC. The Saputos have enough money to sit at a table with the Krafts and Anshutzes. However, unlike the other two families they have shown far less willingness to spend that money on their soccer team and the low-budget stadium is yet another example. If I were Garber, before seeing Saputo ownership as a plus I would definitely want to see what their commitment to funding the Impact in the future was. The mafia rumours are only allegations and are not important until there is a liklihood of criminal charges being laid (something I think is very unlikely even if the allegations are true). Moreover, the allegations are against Lino Saputo not his son Joey who is running the team.

As much as the Montrealais won't like to admit this, in my opinion the main argument in favour of the Impact in MLS is the success of TFC. I doubt if TFC were not such a success that we would even be talking about the Impact in MLS right now. For MLS there is the hope that the TFC success could be repeated in Montreal and such success stories are very good for league development. Plus providing a strong nearby rival for TFC will increase revenues from Canadian television, sponsorship and merchandising.

I hope that the above circumstances are enough to get us into MLS but I think it will be more despite of the stadium instead of because of it. There are significant issues with the Montreal bid and we are far from a shoo-in candidate. That is not to say that some of the other candidates don't have issues either. In fact, the sooner we can get in the better because given time some of these other cities may improve their bids to an extent that makes them far superior to a Montreal bid.

An additional point I would like to make is that many people suspect the MLS of favouring US bids and conspiring against Canadian bids. They may indeed favour US bids (though I don't think they are conspiring against Canadian bids) but until the prospective Canadian cities start putting together very strong bids I don't think there is any evidence to claim that. We have Montreal with our USL stadium that needs to be expanded and our up to now cheap billionaire owners while the city of Vancouver seems intent on sabotaging the building of a first class stadium being built with private funding. Until these two bids really get their act together we have no complaint of discrimination if the MLS decides to choose other cities.

[Trident]

I haven't seen one person from Montreal suggest we are shoe ins, unless Cashcleaner and his Boyzzz are from Montreal.

And We are sorry that Montreal will already outdraw at least 2 MLS teams for the next year and onwards(KC,SJ)

The reason SS is not MLS quality is because we are not an MLS team, we don't want to be the next Rochester, biting off more than we can chew. As always bringing up the Saputo dollars, I think if MLS ever turns down SS as a permanent home, they would be fine with us using a 17k stadium as a temp until Saputo whips up WembleyV2.00.

After all, an expanded SS is still better than SJ's current one(They have no plans for a new stadium by the way) and KC's temporary one.

Don't worry be happy, if it will happen, it will happen.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

I haven't seen one person from Montreal suggest we are shoe ins, unless Cashcleaner and his Boyzzz are from Montreal.

Taking offense at an article pointing out legitimate problems with a Montreal MLS bid certainly implies that conditions are excellent here for an MLS franchise.

quote:The reason SS is not MLS quality is because we are not an MLS team, we don't want to be the next Rochester, biting off more than we can chew. As always bringing up the Saputo dollars, I think if MLS ever turns down SS as a permanent home, they would be fine with us using a 17k stadium as a temp until Saputo whips up WembleyV2.00.

I think if the Saputos were willing to pump that much money into the Impact to build a second better stadium or to massively renovate the current one they would have built a better stadium in the first place.

quote:After all, an expanded SS is still better than SJ's current one(They have no plans for a new stadium by the way) and KC's temporary one.

This is untrue. San Jose does have plans to build a new stadium. There have been some problems in deciding where and how to build the stadium but the poor facility they will be playing in next year is in no way intended to be a permanent venue.

[Trident]

I never took offense, I just find it odd that people praise towns with no stadium at all and we have at least got one and it's a "problem".

And I do think our shot is better than say Portland, Rochester and Vegas but that doesn't mean I think it's guaranteed.

Please don't assume.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Columbus Crew Stadium isn't exactly Wembley but it is definitely a class higher as a stadium than Saputo stadium.

Have you ever been there? It's basically just a larger version of TD Waterhouse stadium in London, Ont. Very much a no frills stadium. My impression is that all MLS really care about is that a stadium looks like a major professional venue on television (having the old Olympic Stadium in the background will help from that standpoint) and that the game day revenues can be accessed so the team can operate profitably on crowds in the 10,000 to 15,000 range and that definitely appears to be the case at Stade Saputo. The smallest MLS SSSs either built or projected have about 18,000 seats so I suspect they already have the blueprints for how to get there. Not that huge a jump from 13,000 when one end has been left open and the other end that has some seats could easily be demolished and rebuilt to accomodate more.

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

An additional point I would like to make is that many people suspect the MLS of favouring US bids and conspiring against Canadian bids. They may indeed favour US bids (though I don't think they are conspiring against Canadian bids) but until the prospective Canadian cities start putting together very strong bids I don't think there is any evidence to claim that.

Garber is definitely on record as saying that they plan to expand to American cities first before looking at Canada again. TFC's exclusive territorial rights to all of Canada until 2010 means that Montreal and Vancouver were never a serious threat for #15 or #16 so that was a case of stating the obvious to a certain extent. I think the recent emergence of Miami as a contender has made entry as #17 and #18 much more problematic.

quote:Originally posted by Trident

And I do think our shot is better than say Portland, Rochester and Vegas but that doesn't mean I think it's guaranteed.

Rochester's time a prime expansion contender has come and gone. They are seen as a minor league city and probably won't get in now so I agree with you there. Vegas looks like a fantasy project to me so tend to agree there but I think Portland have to be taken seriously if they can get the funding package together to convert PGE Park into a dedicated SSS and to build a new stadium for the minor league baseball team that are the Timbers' co-tenants right now.

[Luis_Rancagua]

According to this article, it now appears that Philly is now the leading bid to be awarded the 16th MLS expansion franchise right. Garber also mentions that a Canadian city (probably Montreal) was showing enormous interest, but that bid is now out of the race for now.

------------------------

'A step ahead' in MLS race?

The league commissioner hinted at a Philadelphia edge over St. Louis in landing an expansion soccer team.

By Jeff Gammage

Inquirer Staff Writer

BALTIMORE - The victor in the highly competitive contest to secure a soccer expansion team will be either Philadelphia or St. Louis, Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber said yesterday, eliminating the immediate prospects of cities such as Miami.

"Both Philadelphia and St. Louis are making progress in their plans, and one of them will be our 16th team," Garber said during a break from the league's SuperDraft, being held at the convention center here.

As for which it would be, Garber first said he did not think either was ahead of the other, then appeared to tilt toward Philadelphia, saying, "If Philadelphia is able to finalize their plan, they have been leading the charge and have a step ahead of St. Louis."

What was clear was that months of preparation, discussion and negotiations have boiled down to a two-city race. In addition to Miami, there was interest from Canada for a second MLS team, and a group was seeking a second New York City franchise.

Organizers in Philadelphia have strong ownership, but no deal to build a stadium. St. Louis has a stadium deal, but lacks what the league considers a sufficient number of wealthy investors.

Garber said the league was intent on making a decision by the end of the month, though he also said a decision could take from 30 to 45 days. Either way, the league won't wait forever. "At some point, we have to move on," he said.

He spoke during a break from a loud and energetic soccer draft, with hundreds of fans chanting and singing for their teams. "Pick St. Louis! Pick St. Louis!" a group of DC United fans chanted to the commissioner, taunting about 20 members of the Sons of Ben fan club who traveled here to cheer the Philadelphia area's prospects.

It was the first glimpse of what might turn into a heated soccer rivalry between Washington and Philadelphia, complete with the chants and songs that characterize followers of the sport around the world. Indeed, one of the appeals for MLS of having a Philadelphia team is the city's proximity to New York and Washington, and the rivalries that would engender.

The Sons of Ben were joined by a familiar-looking gentleman wearing wire-rim spectacles and a tricorn hat, and carrying a cane - J. Ward Larkin, a Ben Franklin impersonator.

"I'm a Philadelphia fan. I believe in Philadelphia completely. We should have first-class representation in every way," he said.

The group seeking the franchise plans to build a $115 million soccer stadium in Chester. Of the fans Larkin imagines coming to the games from New Jersey, he deadpanned: "I'm sad they are not going to be coming across the Ben Franklin Bridge. They'll be coming across the Commodore Barry Bridge."

Corey Furlan, a Norristown bartender, was among those cheering with the Sons of Ben yesterday. "I've been waiting 10 years for a soccer team in Philadelphia," he said. "We might be able to make this happen."

To lose out on a team at this point, he said, would be devastating.

The Sons of Ben stood among hundreds of fans who turned one side of the convention center into a cheering section, often comically insulting one another.

When New York Red Bull fans got loud, the Philadelphia group led others in drowning them out, singing "No one is listening" to the tune of "O Sole Mio."

Hundreds of fans supporting teams such as the Chicago Fire, Columbus Crew and Toronto FC came to Baltimore for the annual player draft, which had four rounds in which teams selected 56 players.

Soccer luminaries such as Cobi Jones and Alexis Lallas shook hands and signed autographs for fans. The first round was carried live on ESPN2.

The drive to secure a team for Philadelphia is led by an investment group that includes iStar Financial chief executive officer Jay Sugarman, Wilmington developers Christopher and Robert Buccini, and James Nevels, chairman of the Swarthmore Group financial advisers.

Delaware County officials have agreed to contribute $30 million toward construction. The investors say they need $45 million from the state to proceed.

Nevels has said he believes legislators will grant the funding because they see that a $45 million investment can reap $500 million in new development, along with jobs and tax revenues. The stadium and surrounding development - to include stores, restaurants and housing - would be on the waterfront in Chester.

MLS strives to place teams in new soccer stadiums seating 20,000 to 25,000 people, usually located outside city centers in areas where land is cheaper. That's why the Los Angeles Galaxy plays in Carson, Calif., and the Chicago Fire in Bridgeview, Ill. Through the stadiums, teams control of millions of dollars from parking, food, souvenirs and luxury suites.

MLS recently signed seven-year television contracts with ABC Sports/ESPN, Fox Soccer Channel, Univision and HDNet, reaping income and exposure.

The league's growth plan has met setbacks. MLS started with 10 teams in 1996, grew to 12 in 1998, then contracted to 10 in 2002. It added two clubs in 2005 and this year Toronto became the 13th team - and the first to sell out every home game. A San Jose, Calif., team begins play next year, and Seattle recently was awarded an expansion club.

Contact staff writer Jeff Gammage at 610-313-8110 or jgammage@phillynews.com.

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

I still say it'll be Stl not Phi. The MLS acts like other leagues over here. They want to spread the teams for maximum geographic coverage even at the expense of viewership. In Phi you have a sportscity that has a bigger pop. density and a more intense sports atmosphere. Personally speaking, I can see rivalries and away games with Phi. Stl is the gateway to the west= too far away for me to go. I'm also sure the atmosphere would be far more rowdy in the city of Brotherhood than the city of little league and indoor soccer. Furthermore, I don't even mention the Canadian cities because the MLS have their Canadian exposure and won't thinl of Canada till both Stl AND Phi are in.

[Luis_Rancagua]

MLS delays decision on team again

By Tom Timmermann

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

Tuesday, Jan. 22 2008

Major League Soccer has again pushed back the timetable for naming its 16th

expansion team, and while St. Louis continues to battle with Philadelphia for

the spot, with each day it's more likely a team won't play here before 2010.

MLS Commissioner Don Garber said in November that the league would decide by

Jan. 31 as to whether Philadelphia or St. Louis would join the league for 2009.

In interviews last weekend in Baltimore, site of the MLS draft, Garber said a

decision was expected in the next 30 to 45 days.

That could mean a decision might not come until March 1, but even if a decision

is made by mid-February, it would be difficult for the planned stadium in

Collinsville to be built in time for the 2009 season.

Though Jeff Cooper, the East Alton lawyer heading the expansion bid, has

everything in place for the stadium to be built, construction will not begin

until the league grants St. Louis a team. In the past, he has said construction

would need to begin by the end of January for completion in time for a 2009

kickoff, though the team could buy some time if it played its first month or so

of the season on the road.

"If it's at the front end of the 30-day period, we can still do it, but the

longer we go on, the more difficult this gets to make it for 2009,'' Cooper

said Monday. "2010 is going to be more comfortable, no question. We are hoping

for 2009, but it's starting to get to the point where it's more difficult."

Garber said Friday that it would come "down to the wire" between St. Louis and

Philadelphia for the 16th team. The league would prefer Philadelphia, the

nation's fourth-largest television market, but won't put a team there unless

plans and funding exist for a soccer-specific stadium.

A group there wants to build a stadium in Chester, Pa., near the Philadelphia

airport, but it needs financial aid from the state to make that happen. It's

not certain the group will be able to get the full $45 million it is seeking.

The Pennsylvania Legislature is in recess until Jan. 28.

Cooper is continuing to look for investors to add to his ownership group. The

league wants to make sure its new franchise operators have deep pockets to keep

up in a league that needs to start spending more money. Cooper said he remains

"very confident" that St. Louis will get a team.

"We've got folks that we've been talking to,'' Cooper said. "Obviously, we're

willing to talk to anyone who's interested, but we've got folks who are very

interested. It's looking pretty good."

ttimmermann@post-dispatch.com