Teams - Nouveau Riche? / Down now but later maybe?

[Canuck Oranje]

In one of my inner soccer geek moments, I set out to uncover some interesting stories about professional club teams around the world.

In this thread, I thought it would be interesting to focus on two types of club teams. Please share if you have any teams in mind.

1. The Nouveau Riche: Club teams that through new investment have the potential to become a top level regular. In this case, I am thinking of examples similar to Wigan and Fulham except that they have not yet reached the top level.

Gremio Barueri (Brazil): This is a club that I have followed for a few years now. It currently is positioned in the top half of the Brazilian second level (Series . This is its first year at that level. While in the third level (Series C) last year, it was ranked in the top 20 teams Brazil in terms of revenue. It was also the only team in 2006 to turn a profit without selling players. On top of that, the city it represents is ranked as Brazil's 20th largest municipal economy by GDP. That is not that impressive until you realize that Barueri only has a population of 265,000. Strangely, the club is controlled by the city (which is criticized by other clubs as unfair). The team also plays in a new stadium (phase two still under construction) that will have a capacity 40,000 when completed in 2009. The team is still within range of promotion for 2007 but will likely remain in Series B for another year. Should the city eventually choose to sell its interest in the club, there are enough billionaires/multimillionaires in Barueri/Santana de Parnaiba to have an auction.

2. Down and Out but Maybe Later: Club teams that have a history in their respective countries but fell on hard times. To refine further, I would also add that they also have the potential ability to make a come back sometime in the future either through local economics, new money, or continued loyal fan support. To make the challenge a little more difficult, I looked at teams below the top two levels in their league. However, if you have an interesting story that doesn't fit the last criteria, please share.

Some teams that come to mind.

TSV Fortuna Dusseldorf (currently in the Regionaliga Nord in Germany)

- appears to be recovering from financial difficulties.

Nottingham Forest (currently in England's League One)

- continues to have massive fan support

Botafogo of Ribeirao Preto (currently in the Paulista A2 league)

- based in the middle of sugarcane/ethanol country (economy is getting stronger fast) and owns its own 50,000 seat stadium (but it needs some work).

Post more as they come to mind.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

1. Villareal. Small town, wealthy owner with his huge ceramic factory in it. Absolutely no tradition. Modest stadium. Good youth system, strong signings. Rival Castellon, in 2nd Division, is the neighbouring town.

All along the Valencia coast into Murcia and Almeria there is new, speculative money, no culture or tradition to spend it on, so it goes into the sport circus: football, but also futsal, basketball, volleyball.

2. In Spain there are plenty of clubs with a lot of history, but two of the founders of the Spanish 1st division in 1929 are lower division. Real Union de Irún on the border with France, is in 2B, third tier, while Europa, in the Barcelona neighbourhood of Gracia, is in 3rd (4th tier). Only the former, a Basque club, has a remote chance of some day finding its way into a higher division or even, a long shot, into top flight. Another founding club of the league, Arenas de Getxo, no longer exists.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

PS. Later can we do a whole thread just for teams with names of flowers in their names? Please?

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Nottingham Forest (currently in England's League One)

- continues to have massive fan support

I think Leeds United will get to the Premiership before Forest do. Talk about massive support! Forest is located only 400 yards from Notts County's ground, but Leeds United have their city pretty much to themselves if I'm not mistaken.

In the more distant future, look out for FC United of Manchester, a club which was founded a few years ago. They've got a big urban base to draw fans from. Man City just moved to a new stadium in a different part of town which kind of left their fan base somewhat disjointed. Man United have never been that big in Manchester. Also FC Utd of Manchester are owned by their fans, much like Barcelona and Real Madrid, which might make them a more attractive bandwagon for locals to jump on if the team ever gets even remotely good.

[Guest Soccrman]

[quote

Man United have never been that big in Manchester.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Soccrman

are you nuts!! MUFC are massive in M/C... not just the rest of the world!!

What I mean is that they don't have deep roots in the community. They were never any more popular than Man City until they started winning (hence the famous chant "Who the f*ck are Man United?...").

Of course winning brought on a lot of bandwagoners but those people can also jump-off at any time. And that was my point - that if FC Utd of Manchester ever got to be half-decent, they wouldn't have trouble attracting local support. At least it will be easier than if they were based in, say, Liverpool.

By the way, for those interested, FCUM currently lie in second-place in the Unibond first division (8th tier). They should get promoted yet again this season, before things get a lot tougher.

[Guest Soccrman]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

What I mean is that they don't have deep roots in the community. They were never any more popular than Man City until they started winning (hence the famous chant "Who the f*ck are Man United?...").

Of course winning brought on a lot of bandwagoners but those people can also jump-off at any time. And that was my point - that if FC Utd of Manchester ever got to be half-decent, they wouldn't have trouble attracting local support. At least it will be easier than if they were based in, say, Liverpool.

Not so at all - MUFC have real fans - check attendances in the 70's when they went to (old) div 2. They averaged over 50000. More than L/pool who won (old) div 1 that year!! I know b/cos I was there!! Thats how old I am:(

The bandwagon jumpers are the rest of UK/world who have jumped on with the growth of the game b/cos MUFC are entertaining as well as winners!!!

Also hope FCUM do well as it would be cool to see!!

[Canuck Oranje]

Don't know if you knew this when you posted this comment but the name Barueri means "Red flower that amazes" in Tupi Guarani (the local aboriginal tribe)

It should also be pointed out that while the city itself is not that big, it does fall inside the greater Sao Paulo area so team attendance should not be a problem going forward.

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

PS. Later can we do a whole thread just for teams with names of flowers in their names? Please?

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Soccrman

Not so at all - MUFC have real fans - check attendances in the 70's when they went to (old) div 2. They averaged over 50000. More than L/pool who won (old) div 1 that year!! I know b/cos I was there!! Thats how old I am:(

The bandwagon jumpers are the rest of UK/world who have jumped on with the growth of the game b/cos MUFC are entertaining as well as winners!!!

True! Although if you took the 30 biggest clubs in England back in the 70's, together they must've averaged around 40,000/game in attendance.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Manchester is a small town with a massive metropolitan region. I lived in Rusholme, which along with it's poor and rich neighbors Moss Side and Fallowfield, is Man City territory. Contributing to this is the fact that the majority of the population in this area are students (there are two massive universities more or less side by each on outskirts of Rusholme.) Nobody who grew up supporting West Brom or Doncaster Rovers is going to start supporting United. Man City is the adopted club of the people. Granted, as alluded to above, the new ground and new ownership has likely changed some of the culture there. Can't be the same without Old Maine Road.

I think what amac is trying to say is that a large bit of United's support comes from Droylsden, Oldham, Wigan, Bolton, Rochdale, Bury, and the other surrounding areas.

I don't think this Man U supporters club will ever replace City though. Especially now that they're challenging for Europe!

[youllneverwalkalone]

Bristol City are an early season challenger for promotion to the Premiership, only one year removed from League One.

[amacpher]

How about Ebbsfleet United?? They've just been taken over by 20,000 computer geeks!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gravesend_and_northfleet/7089473.stm

I imagine the creator of this website is laughing all the way to the bank! Poor Ebbsfleet United though. They're heading for disaster now, I imagine.

The club is currently 9th in the Conference. Lets see how badly this effects them.

[Bxl Boy]

1. Lyon, big city but traditionnally top second division, bottom first team. With their new president Aulas, they win championship after championship in France but struggle on their european ambitions.

2. Union Saint-Gilloise. One of the most traditionnal teams in Belgium and an historic rivalry with Daring (now, after lots of fusions, called Brussels) even with a theater show about it (Bossemans & Coppenolle). Have a record of 60 games in a row without a loss (that team was called Union 60), a loss against... the Daring, of course ! Now, Union is a mid-table second division team in Belgium, but for years played in third. If they one day come back in first, they for sure will have lots of popular support.

Saint-Etienne, France. Even if they now play for a spot in UEFA Cup, it's not anymore “Les Verts” (the Greens) from their great period, mid-70's, with players as Platini, Rocheteau, etc. that went to the C1-final. Even with some seasons in second division, they always had great public support. With Marseille, this is the most legendary soccer club in France.

[jpg75]

Union Berlin and Dynamo Dresden are two former East German 1st Division teams that have fallen on hard financial times since the Iron curtain lifted. Union was playng in the Oberliga last year and promoted to the Regionalliga.

PSG have been doing crap on the field in recent years, but they're what you'd call a nouveau riche team. They were formed in the 70's and picked up a big following in Paris...they inherited playing at was then the French national stadium Parc des Princes.

Speaking of France, Stade Reims used to have killer teams in the 50's. The great Argentina turned Spaniard Di Stefano played for them at one point. I believe the club made it to the European final only to lose to Real Madrid. They're now in the lower divisions...my grandma used to tell me about some of the games she'd watch in Rouen and how Reims was always a big game and how she hated one of their defenders cuz he was a big, dumb ox.

[Guest Ed]

BFC Dynamo Berlin (formerly Dynamo Berlin) was the biggest club in Berlin (Union Berlin were not at the same level). The club, infamous for its Stasi connections, is also now in the Oberliga Nord/NordOst (4th div). The former Liepzig club Lokomotiv Liepzig was also very big. Grizzly would have more to add on that. One rather prominent fellow in Cdn soccer development was a pro youth coach with Dynamo Berlin from 1984 to 1992.

[Desigol]

Further to the Manchester/Liverpool debate;

Those two Cities once had the same Sectraian Divide as Glasgow. Catholics in Liverpool supported Everton due to the fact that Liverpool were formed by a member of the Orange Order. United were the Catholic Team of Manchester, few in Northern Ireland supported United prior to Geroge Best's arrival at the club. Catholics in Ireland were at the time Anti-Soccer, it was viewed as a 'Garrison Sport'.

Alot of Dubs started following English Soccer in the 1950's/60's. The team of choice was Leeds, mainly due to Johnny Giles. The League of Ireland wasn't realy well supported until very recently, mostly young kids in the Dirt Poor Estates (Such as Ballymun and Tallaght). Most kids in Dublin support Celtic, just because they saw Catholics in the North support them; Monkey See, Monkey Do. Celtic fans in Dublin are known as 'Barstool Republicans'.