Interesting Article from CP re: Women's Team

[terpfan68]

How does coming in 9th in the World Cup and being ranked 9th in the world constitute failure? It's true we didn't live up to the expectations of many fans but the team did come close to advancing and had a better performance than several higher ranked teams. The team finished just about where their fifa ranking would have suggested. As to playing style, that's another issue but don't run down this fine group of women as failures.

[Vic]

Coming in 9th in the World Cup is a misnomer. It was a 16 team tournament. Placing 9-16 is pretty worthless. Half went on, half went home.

In 2007 we played seven games against the top 20 teams in the world and didn't win a single one. Of those seven games, four were against #11-#20. And in the three against the top 10 in the world, two completely anihiliated us.

Of our six wins this year, two were against teams ranked #21-30, and four against teams ranked 50th or worse.

We even lost to a team of US teenagers this year.

What would you define failure as?

quote:

Sorry to say, but I think we give them a huge fat benefit of the doubt only because they are the women, and in the end, treating them as less responsible and less mature is effectively sexist.

Queue the Mia Hamm "Coach us like men."

I hear the hockey reference used a lot lately, i.e. "if the Men's hockey team was run like the women's soccer team there would be a national inquiry..."

Well, if the Men's hockey team ever had a year like the women's soccer team just did, the coach would be gone, the manager would be gone, the players would be gone, and probably the trainers, the bus driver and even the uniforms too.

If you want respect, earn it.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Exactly, the women "failed" because they are badly coached, we have a retrograde style that denies any possible on the ball talent, and the players amazingly accept this passively, as they are character-less since the veterans were silenced.

On top of that the players themselves have behaved like a cult, in a shell, holed up in their own reality, with the captain shi-tting on the players who led them in the past and were ostracized and talking about Brownie-style unity, a big childish bubble of their own doing that burst in their own faces.

I think the players and the coach have to take some responsibility for how they play and played, and step up and be responsible. Their attitude, both the coach's and the players', reeks of extreme irresponsibility and immaturity. Come on Sinclair and company, show some leadership and stop acting like school kids.

Sorry to say, but I think we give them a huge fat benefit of the doubt only because they are the women, and in the end, treating them as less responsible and less mature is effectively sexist. Why shoud we be so soft on them, are they representing Canada or not? It is time for someone on the team to speak up and take the role that we lost when we lost the veterans.

Right on ..and too many of the posters here ...forget they are being paid as national level athletes and are not ..on the podium...the COA has to be concerned ...about the inablity to take the advantages given.. and turn it into successfull competition.

Ask athletes in other olympic sports.. what they would give for the support they have been given and what they would produce...

Its gut checking time ... and time to get some bigger hearts on the womens national team....

oh and a new coach...soon...

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Exactly, the women "failed" because they are badly coached, we have a retrograde style that denies any possible on the ball talent, and the players amazingly accept this passively, as they are character-less

Agree with both of these statements. You need to see that profile on Marta that the CBC showed during the telecast of the final game. Clearly, Marta and the Brazilian girls could only dream of having what the Canadian girls have what with the residency program. And, aside from maybe a handful of national sides around the world, so would everybody else. And yet, as poorly organized( ie.: off the pitch) and poorly funded as womens soccer is in Brazil, they still manage to paste us 7-1 and even reach the finals of the WC.

So again, I ask as well, More money? for what? Even more puzzling to me is: If one is a follower of the womens programs what is there to reproach the organizational bodies for?

[terpfan68]

Football has always looked at points earned and then goal difference to determine placement. Canada's point total and goal difference "earned" a ninth place finish. Evedently fifa thought so too because guess what they still ended up ninth unlike Denmark and China which droped position. I think there are posters on this site who were rooting for the team to go down in flames at the wc just to prove a point. Changes need to be made although I don't think I would trust anyone who posts here to make the changes, and the leadership of the CSA needs to get itself sorted out before they act too hastily.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Here is quote from a Canadian player that speaks volumes about whats wrong with the womens games in Canada. I could have selected a great number of them because any time a member of one of the women team is quoted to describe her play or that of a teammate or opponent, this same theme emerges:

From cbcsports.com. Martina Franko describes Marta

"“She’s a sneaky, sneaky player,” Canada defender Martina Franko told the Globe and Mail. “I was pulling her shirt, pulling her back. … What else do you do? I’ve never played anybody as fast as her. I’ve never seen anyone who runs as fast as you, then as soon as she touches the ball, gets faster."

Comments: The above quote rings a familiar theme in pieces surrounding womens soccer in Canada. Even members of even our national teams fail to understand what make a player good. They always seems to revert back to athletic or physical attributes of players. In this case its, Marta pace. So is it any wonder that we play a style that capitalizes on the physical elements of soccer rather than the technical sides ( ie.: dribbling, ball touches, vision, etc)? if pace is the first thing that comes to mind when describing Renate Lingor, Danielle, or Cristiane, then clearly you would think that sprinters would be the best players. Or you don't understand the game.

So again, Its when I see this that I start to wonder ( some times) if Pellerud is doing nothing more than just playing the cards that he is dealt.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

To be fair perhaps I am exagerrating a bit, and I feel badly about hitting so hard at Sinclair, since she is obviously a great player. But I do think her comments were rather poor especially since she was a big talker before and during the tournament and has been silent since; and as captain she has to show a lot more, and that sometimes means not being a cheerleader and speaking out for what is right. And she is not there yet unfortunately.

Why is there not a single player on the team who has made a decent attempt at self-criticism? Noone there to challenge the crap that Pellerud is making them play? Maybe when you are u-19 that is understandable, but at this age? I mean, even Kara is a big enough girl to have some sort of standard she might be willing to refer to. That reeks of something, like corporativism or the like, they hide in their shell and get their backs up and act like a sect. Not good, ladies.

[terpfan68]

Yes it reeks of team solidarity. Do not air your problems in public. You have to respect them for that.

[Richard]

Charmaine Hooper tried the opposite strategy with the WNT and look where it got her, frozen out for good.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Yes it reeks of team solidarity. Do not air your problems in public. You have to respect them for that.

Perhaps misdirected solidarity. Latham and Nonen showed solidarity and got them suspended and never recalled.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Yes it reeks of team solidarity. Do not air your problems in public. You have to respect them for that.

More like do not have a clue what your problems are in public or private, unless otherwise demonstrated. And thus far not demonstrated. One thing is to be a conscious team player, another is to be a pack animal with no self-initiative. The latter is not leadership, not individual identity, and it is not elite athletes at work either. Everything missing on the field is missing off as well.

[terpfan68]

Yes, and those of us with the least information are making the most noise.

[Vic]

quote:

Yes it reeks of team solidarity. Do not air your problems in public. You have to respect them for that.

...

Charmaine Hooper tried the opposite strategy with the WNT and look where it got her, frozen out for good.

I seem to remember the Latham and Hooper emails attempting to build team solidarity by contacting the players in private. And maybe I'm wrong, but despite a World Cup year as castouts and a number of derogatory comments from some of the players in the program towards them, I can't remember anything from any of the three towards anyone other than Pellerud. I don't even think Latham and Nonen ever said anything in public.

quote:

the fact of the matter is it's not 2004 anymore. ... It's 2007, and I think you have to live in the present. And you can't live by big names. You can't live in the past. It doesn't matter what somebody did in an Olympic gold medal game in the Olympics three years ago. Now is what matters

To me, that's the quote of the year. I realize you have to suspend someone for saying it, but I wish I had 18 players who had the guts to say it in public, and I would do everything I could to get them back on the field quickly.

[Jon Que]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

My question is why do we need more money? To do what exactly? We have played a lot of games prior to the tournament (only 3 teams played more) and we had a residency program for half the year.

That question needs to be asked of the national team coach? Not anonymous posters on a soccer forum. Voyageurs seems to have some kind of interview show, sounds like a good topic. How much money do you require to make Canada competitve (medal capable) and what exactly would you spend it on?

Now, if I was the new national soccer coach in charge of the entire Women's program and off the top of my head had to make some decisions this is what I would do.

Part 1. Development.

I want a full time under 17 coach.

I want the team to train for 2 years leading up to the worlds.

I want a ton of international matches beforehand to get them used to all that international competition requires.

I want a full time under 20 coach.

same as above

I want a part time under 23 coach who will coach the team at the Nordic cup. This will give all the college players that aren't good enough to make the senior team a chance to stay motivated on the path to the senior team. This a probably a last chance for Late bloomers to make their case.

I want a part time under 15 coach to start identifying and training the future under 17's. Get them some international competition in a canadian uniform. Teach them about nutrition, weight training, conditioning, etc. Build the dream young. I want a large pool of player that may be capable of one day making the National team. I would tell these girls Canadians can go down to the NCAA play against some of the toughtest competition (best USA players + top internationals) and be considered the best player (twice).

The dual goal here should be to produce players that can play on the national team one day and to win world championships. and I mean win, not just show up. If we have to spend more money to put them in a residency then do it.

I also want better, more extensive scouting. Where do all these good youth players from Quebec and London go to anyways?

Part 2: Senior team only (to come)

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

So again, Its when I see this that I start to wonder ( some times) if Pellerud is doing nothing more than just playing the cards that he is dealt.

How long has Pellerud had some of these player though? And from what age? A lot of these players were playing U-19 at 16 or earlier. And why do the players who play with some skills, some vision, end up dropping by the wayside? Maybe for a 30ish player like Franko, they are what they are, but there are a lot of players who are quite young, have been with the program for a number of years, and many of whom play(ed) in US college programs that have a more technical style than Canada. Mr. Pellerud believes in the long ball...that is the style all of his teams play.

Do you recall Kristina Kiss dropping out of the program a few years back because she did not like the style foisted upon them?

And if it is so difficult to change to possession ball, why were the men able to do it once they had a coach committed to doing so? Why have countless women's teams with far fewer resources and athletes been able to do so, and in some cases catch or surpass Canada? Nah, this sits solely on the shoulders of the Coach. I think, like the Men's team, the women's players are capable of playing a different style and with similar or better results and greater long term upside.

[Richard]

Of course they are quite capable of playing a different style, just look at the 2006 W-League championship edition of the Vancouver Whitecaps which shared many of the same women as were on the team that went to China. Granted playing W-League opposition is not the same as a world cup but my point stands.

[terpfan68]

What teams have surpassed Canada? In the fifa rankings Canada has continued to go up right from the beginning. Canada is the team catching the other teams. Even Australia which had a fine tournament needed an injury time goal to TIE Canada, otherwise we advance and everyone has to eat their negative comments till Brazil eliminates us.

I do think we need to increase the numbers of players in the program at each team level though. That would definitely take more money. Nothing improves a team like competition.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

What teams have surpassed Canada? In the fifa rankings Canada has continued to go up right from the beginning. Canada is the team catching the other teams. Even Australia which had a fine tournament needed an injury time goal to TIE Canada, otherwise we advance and everyone has to eat their negative comments till Brazil eliminates us.

I do think we need to increase the numbers of players in the program at each team level though. That would definitely take more money. Nothing improves a team like competition.

Bold is mine

That is a novel view with some merit. But when I look at a 4th place in 2003 WC to a 9th place in this years WC, I am not sure who are we catching up to. I think 2003 was our peak and since then we are just coasting The Peter Principle.

[terpfan68]

The 4th place finish was a bit of a fluke. No way were we the fourth best team in that tournament. We got a good result against China and there we were. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. Football can be a cruel sport. The better team doesn't always win, just the one that scores the most goals. Look at Scotland against France in European Qualifing. As the French coach said "Scotland got full value for their one shot."

[ANC2]

Did the team not play in the Pan Am games in Brazil?

Almost all the players from the WC played in that Tournament.

I would be fired talking about my employer that way!

What about your tactics Mr Pellerud. The same tactics used by every female team. Look at the state of the U20 team in Russia.

For once I would like this man to come out and talk about his tactics.

If every team is looking for big strong players that boot the ball far, then obviously the technical players will not be developed for the WC Team

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Yes it reeks of team solidarity. Do not air your problems in public. You have to respect them for that.

Thats really a questionalbe...statement ..Canada has had mens realy teams... that were um... how to describe ...not unified they aired it all in public and ... put it together on the track to win.

By the time you get to national team ..or a successfull professional team you ...should be able to do your job on the field and comment off about ..whats right or wrong.

I have grave...misgivings when a womens team ..keeps things inside and does not open up and talk.

see Anson Dorrance for what can happen.

[Jon Que]

"Why do we need more money?"

Part 2. Senior team only

Games, (home)games and more (quality) games.

I want to see this team play from coast to coast. I want all those young girls from 4 and up to go and see their Senior team play and also see the talented players from other countries play. This will not only help with the development in Part 1 (huge inspiration), but will help with future sponsorships (out of sight, out of mind).

Playing home games gives a boost to the home team (usually providing an extra man advantage) and will help with confidence before going to a tournament on foreign turf. I believe hosting the Pan Am's helped the Brazilian Womens team take it to another level at the W.C.

If you only play away games you have to take what you can get, but if you host the game you can invite who you want to play.

I want to see them play lots of high quality opposition. Norway, Sweden, France, Brazil, North Korea and Germany,etc. This is absolutely necessary especially in a World Cup year. I haven't really checked into that table of teams and games played this year, but the first team I thought of was China. 27 games played this year according to Fifa. Honest omission I suppose. But I don't really care that much if we are 3rd, 4th or 5th in quantity, but why not 1st in quality (and quantity if that is what it takes) of games. Why can't we give our teams an advantage for a change. It's not cheating you know. For that table to have any real significance I would want to see a break down of home/away and quality of opposition.

It seems Women's soccer is exploding globally, if we ever hope to join the big 3 then we need to invest more money now. What coaching philosophy we use and how we obtain more funding are different questions.

Vote for me and Canada will also be kicking some USA butt's (except with class)

[terpfan68]

How do we know that the women's team are not talking? Why should they talk to us? I'd bet that they have done a lot of talking among themselves and have reached a consensus as to how to go about improving the team. We can have opinions as to how we think the national teams should play but we have absolutely no standing in the decision process. It is not like a political issue where we can write our MP or even stand for office unless we run for Provencial associations and then try to affect change within the CSA itself. If someone would come up with an actual plan that could actually be implemented to reform the CSA then I am sure that members of this board would support it. Right now it's all talk and no one important is listening.

[The Ref]

Based on what some players, the coach and the CSA have said in interviews, it is clear they are aware of what they have been criticized for. So they are listening and it is having an impact to the point they feel necessary to justify it. I don't think that we will see any changes in the WNT until there is a new coach. Changes in the CSA look even less likely.

[The Ref]

Based on what some players, the coach and the CSA have said in interviews, it is clear they are aware of what they have been criticized for. So they are listening and it is having an impact to the point they feel necessary to justify it. I don't think that we will see any changes in the WNT until there is a new coach. Changes in the CSA look even less likely.