MARCEL DE JONG CHOOSES TO PLAY FOR CANADA...!!

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So you only resort to playing for the country of your birth if there is little to no hope of making it for any other country... pfffttt!

What do you suggest CSA to tell him no thanks you waited to long?

Richard you know better than that don’t be so negative. That kind of attitude is making players to stay away from CSA and CMNT.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

So you only resort to playing for the country of your birth if there is little to no hope of making it for any other country... pfffttt!

We can pick almost any country in the world to play against including the top World Cup teams and they will have players with less relationship to their country than DeJong has to Canada. Until the rules change there is no reason for Canada to be the one country that will only play players if they can pass some sort of super loyalty test. Even if the rules do eventually change for the better I still think players that are born in a country will and should have the right to play for that country. This is absolutely by the rules on both our and DeJong's part and in no way is even an example of the rules being abused like the Hargreaves, the Australian Croatian or the Brazilians playing for Arab countries examples. It would seem to me that someone who lives his life based on rules and regulations like yourself would have more understanding for this.

[Guest Ed]

Richard, any comment on Martina Franko playing for Canada in China? Or are the facts that she is on Whitecaps and was in the residency program mitigating factors on your anticipated 'ppffftt'?

[VPjr]

Grizz is bang on. Players all over the world are playing a game of national team roulette. Look at the French (how many players who suit up for France are from Africa, Guadelupe, etc...). Look at Italy (Camoranese is an Argentine who chose Italy because he had little chance of playing for Argentina). Look at the US losing that Giuseppi Rossi kid to Italy. National Teams are starting to have the feel of a club side. National team coaches are searching for players that fit the loopholes to give their teams the best chance to qualify for the World Cup because qualifying is so damn lucrative. If England didn't want Hargreaves, he would have chosen Canada too.

As long de Jong doesn't bold face lie and claim that he dreamed all his life to play for Canada, I can live with the fact that he is taking advantage of a loophole.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Grizz is bang on. Players all over the world are playing a game of national team roulette. Look at the French (how many players who suit up for France are from Africa, Guadelupe, etc...). Look at Italy (Camoranese is an Argentine who chose Italy because he had little chance of playing for Argentina). Look at the US losing that Giuseppi Rossi kid to Italy. National Teams are starting to have the feel of a club side. National team coaches are searching for players that fit the loopholes to give their teams the best chance to qualify for the World Cup because qualifying is so damn lucrative. If England didn't want Hargreaves, he would have chosen Canada too.

As long de Jong doesn't bold face lie and claim that he dreamed all his life to play for Canada, I can live with the fact that he is taking advantage of a loophole.

Well he was born here and played with our U17's & U20's in official matches so it's not really what I'd call a "loophole". Marc Bircham playing for us, now that's a loophole.

Of all the examples you list, Camaronesi is the only one that is really comparable - the others, to my knowledge, are all playing for their first choice country, or in the case of French players from Guadeloupe, Martinique and other "overseas territories", their only choice. Camaronesi chose Italy because they showed interest in him and Argentina didn't and hadn't despite many of years of having the opportunity. Proof that even the big nations can screw up when it comes to capping players.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Grizz is bang on. Players all over the world are playing a game of national team roulette. Look at the French (how many players who suit up for France are from Africa, Guadelupe, etc...). Look at Italy (Camoranese is an Argentine who chose Italy because he had little chance of playing for Argentina). Look at the US losing that Giuseppi Rossi kid to Italy. National Teams are starting to have the feel of a club side. National team coaches are searching for players that fit the loopholes to give their teams the best chance to qualify for the World Cup because qualifying is so damn lucrative. If England didn't want Hargreaves, he would have chosen Canada too.

As long de Jong doesn't bold face lie and claim that he dreamed all his life to play for Canada, I can live with the fact that he is taking advantage of a loophole.

I actually don't even think this is a loophole since DeJong is a legitimate dual citizen and thus also had a legitimate choice between two countries. Bircham and Hargreaves and the other examples I mention are examples of loopholes in which the rules are technically followed but in a way that is compromising the fairness of the international game. Yet even in cases like Bircham I think we have to take players like this. It is not up to us to be the one country that refuses to take mercenary players. We are a small soccer nation that is at a disadvantage even if we use mercenary players (we are giving up top players for mediocre ones, ie. Hargreaves for players like DeJong and Bricham) and will be even further at a disadvantage if we refuse to use such players. We should advocate a change to the system but until the top nations stop poaching and playing international mercenaries I think we have to do the same.

[nolando]

Changing the focus a bit - what kind of a player is this guy? I had trouble getting too excited by him and following him along until he chose for Canada, and now admittedly no very little about him. What positions can he best fill for us? Is he a projected starter for next year, or even an 18-man squad member? If so, who has he just bumped out of the running - maybe Hastings??

[Richard]

You're all missing my point. I don't appreciate it when Canada is a player's national team choice of last resort. Only when he realises he is not good enough to make any other country's team then he calls the Canadian coach, oh by the way, I am available to play for you now. What kind of attitude is that? We need players who REALLY want to play for Canada, not ones who are playing for Canada only because they weren't good enough for somewhere else. Pfffttt!

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

You're all missing my point. I don't appreciate it when Canada is a player's national team choice of last resort. Only when he realises he is not good enough to make any other country's team then he calls the Canadian coach, oh by the way, I am available to play for you now. What kind of attitude is that? We need players who REALLY want to play for Canada, not ones who are playing for Canada only because they weren't good enough for somewhere else. Pfffttt!

I'm sure Marcel is both honoured and proud to represent Canada. He played for us at the WYC, and represented us well.

Obviously it was a big decision, and he has missed little for Canada. Keep in mind he plays professionally in Holland and has to prepare for a possible backlash. What better thing to tell the Dutch fans ?! We all know his true love is the Great White North ! That is why he chose Canada.

World Cup Qualifying is around the corner, so now is the best time to decide. Mitchel will have plenty of time look at him prior to the big games.

Marcel's move is both correct, patriotic, and well calculated. Bravo !!

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Changing the focus a bit - what kind of a player is this guy? I had trouble getting too excited by him and following him along until he chose for Canada, and now admittedly no very little about him. What positions can he best fill for us? Is he a projected starter for next year, or even an 18-man squad member? If so, who has he just bumped out of the running - maybe Hastings??

He grew up in the PSV system as a left wing and tried out for the Dutch youth team as a left wing. He joined 2nd Div side Helmond Sport and was used as a left wing by them also. As was mentioned earlier he was a left mid for Canada at the U20's and scored a goal at the WYC. He then impressed Roda JC during a Cup game between Roda and Helmond, the score was lopsided and even late in the game De Jong was fighting hard so he earned a look. They bought him and early last year switched him to left back, not sure if they were forecasting him initially to be left wing or left mid.

As for how he plays, he seems to have good vision and passes the ball well. Nothing remarkable, but consistently accurate. Basically, he's not going to be giving the ball away in bad spots. He has decent speed, but he's not a speedster. He's like a less fast, more skilled Josh Simpson.

He'll likely be LB for us, but can play LM too. IMO he'll be competing with Klukowsi for the LB spot. As of right now from what i've seen, I'd be surprised if De Jong isn't included in our 18 man roster for a must-win game.

BTW, Dino, most of the French "African" players from last summers WC were in fact born in France.

[SCF08]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Changing the focus a bit - what kind of a player is this guy? I had trouble getting too excited by him and following him along until he chose for Canada, and now admittedly no very little about him. What positions can he best fill for us? Is he a projected starter for next year, or even an 18-man squad member? If so, who has he just bumped out of the running - maybe Hastings??

I would put De Jong in as a DEFINITE starter at left-back. He can also play in left midfield but at left-back he is more of threat going forward.

He is Mr.Consistent that always gets at least a 6.5 out of 10 after the game. He is very allround and adds extra to the team with his attacking skill...

I think he is one of the best left-backs in the Dutch league. Only Tim de Cler of Feyenoord is better.

I would compare De Jong a bit to a better attacking version of Paul Konchesky (Fulham / Former West Ham)

I just found another article with him today here with a couple of new quotes...

http://www.vi.nl/NieuwsItem/DeJongIsGeenYildirimEnKiestVoorCanada.htm

De Jong said..

''It was a very tough decision to make. I've been speaking to a lot of my family members , friends and people inside football. In every single one of those chats the advice was the same and that was to play for Canada , simply because I have much more chance of playing regularly''

''I simply didnt want to be a Ugur Yildirim. He was capped by Holland once and that was it. He was really disappointed with his decision afterwards and the fear for me was that it could happen to me too , I just didnt want that''

[Guest Ed]

Well that was a good one. Wise choice there for the young CANUCK!

This time next year somebody else on the fence just might be in Spain where he has close family connections and the whole Dutch argument might go away.

Reading that story brought shivers to me. Christ, I wouldn't want to be 'UGUR YILDRIM' either although I don't have a clue who the sadly-named fellow is.

[JamesW]

Funny, but from what wiki says, Ugur Yildirim can still play for Turkey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugur_Yildirim

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Jamit

Funny, but from what wiki says, Ugur Yildirim can still play for Turkey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugur_Yildirim

The person who edited the page doesn't understand FIFA regs. The rule states that anyone playing in an "A" international is cap-tied permanently to that nation. This is what happened to Freddy Adu when he played for the USNT against Canada in Jan '05. The official game rule is for youth cap-tying only. There's no way he can ever play for Turkey.

edit: I updated Wiki

http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamBack/Eligibiliy.html

"3. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

"(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

Changing the focus a bit - what kind of a player is this guy? I had trouble getting too excited by him and following him along until he chose for Canada, and now admittedly no very little about him. What positions can he best fill for us? Is he a projected starter for next year, or even an 18-man squad member? If so, who has he just bumped out of the running - maybe Hastings??

I think Hastings should only be considered as a depth player for the centre back position for Canada. There are too many better options at the left back position.

De Jong is playing left back these days, but he also played a fair bit at the left forward position in a 4-3-3 in his Helmond Sport days (DDR's position, I suppose).

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by SCF08

I would put De Jong in as a DEFINITE starter at left-back. He can also play in left midfield but at left-back he is more of threat going forward.

He is Mr.Consistent that always gets at least a 6.5 out of 10 after the game. He is very allround and adds extra to the team with his attacking skill...

I think he is one of the best left-backs in the Dutch league. Only Tim de Cler of Feyenoord is better.

I would compare De Jong a bit to a better attacking version of Paul Konchesky (Fulham / Former West Ham)

DeJong has a lot of strong competition (Klukowski, Jazic, Brennan, Simpson, Hastings) at left back and left wing so I think he is pretty far from a definite starter. What would be really useful is if he can play left side CB, especially if Nsaliwa is not able/willing to play for us.

[Gian-Luca]

Hastings was strong at CB for us at the Gold Cup. His relative lack of skill on the ball hurts us less there than it would at LB and he is conscientous and disciplined and tough enough to play that position. I'd rather see him moved to CB full-time than try to convert the more offensively-capable DeJong.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Hastings was strong at CB for us at the Gold Cup. His relative lack of skill on the ball hurts us less there than it would at LB and he is conscientous and disciplined and tough enough to play that position. I'd rather see him moved to CB full-time than try to convert the more offensively-capable DeJong.

I would prefer to see the highest quality player at each position. Hastings did better than expected at the Gold Cup and provides us with some good depth at CB but I would prefer not having him as a starter on our WCQ team. I would rate DeJong as superior to Hastings in ability so that is why I was thinking of him as a CB. I would still rate him behind Nsaliwa though if Nsaliwa is available. I would also rate DeJong as behing Klukowski, Jazic and Brennan and about equivalent to Simpson so unless we have a lot of injuries I don't see him breaking through as a starter at left back or left wing (though of course every player deserves to the chance to win the job by his performance so he should at least get an opportunity to show what he can do).

[Cheeta]

But for the occasion gaff at centre half (and they were the sort of mistakes where fault could be in part blamed on the nature of our middle partnership and the fact Hastings was playing out of position) what exactly about Hastings performance at centre half at the Gold Cup didn't completely impress everyone?

He played that role better than anyone I've seen since BEFORE the last WCQ cycle, hands down. JDV on his best day. He was named to COCACAF'S 1st eleven for his performance for Christ's sake. What exactly do you people want or expect?

As far as I'm concerned he's played himself into the centre half role with his performance this summer and is our 1st selection for the position. Even trumping Big Kev because of his superior speed.

Back on topic, I think de Jong is a super prize and will win an endless number of caps sooner rather than later.

In addition to his odvious skills De Jong has impressed me with the on-field materiety he's showed above and beyond his years. The lad has the tools and the head to play this game at a very high level and I'm absolutely giddy that he's come on board. Maybe he's feeling a little bit Canadian.

Will Johnson. Marcel De Jong. Gawd, we have to field those two with Birch and some as yet unknown right winger who was born in Flin Flon but raised in Mexico for at least one friendly against Trinidad and Tobago next year. Absolutely have to.

[Ian Kennett]

I wonder how many of us have actually seen de Jong play. A couple? Maybe SCF08 knows best about Marcel's ability, certainly more than I do. Don't get me wrong! I love all of our opinions and the lively debate. The fact that de Jong is a starter at 20 years old for a top division Dutch side is a very good thing for Canada's national team now and in the future. It is fabulous that we now have another quality player in the mix to strengthen our national team player pool.

Welcome to the Reds, Marcel (or, welcome back!)! It's great to have you on board!

Cheers!

[Ian Kennett]

I wonder how many of us have actually seen de Jong play. A couple? Maybe SCF08 knows best about Marcel's ability, certainly more than I do. Don't get me wrong! I love all of our opinions and the lively debate. The fact that de Jong is a starter at 20 years old for a top division Dutch side is a very good thing for Canada's national team now and in the future. It is fabulous that we now have another quality player in the mix to strengthen our national team player pool.

Welcome to the Reds, Marcel (or, welcome back!)! It's great to have you on board!

Cheers!

[Soju]

I echo Cheeta's comments on Hastings, he was truly the biggest surprise of the tournament for me.

[Andrew W]

These are indeed heady days. It doesn't seem that long ago that we were searching for guys from the Tuesday night men's league to play positions, now we can honestly say we have four or five potential left backs, all playing in the top leagues in the countries where they ply their trade. It's nice to have options.

To me that doesn't even take Hastings into consideration. To me he's a centreback now. His athletic dimension at that position was a huge plus for how well Canada did in the GC. Besides he has provided me with two of the greatest thrills I've ever had as a MNT supporter. Obviously the goal versus Mexico back in the day, and of course the never-to-be-forgotten flattening of Landon Donovan in the GC semi.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

I would prefer to see the highest quality player at each position. Hastings did better than expected at the Gold Cup and provides us with some good depth at CB but I would prefer not having him as a starter on our WCQ team. I would rate DeJong as superior to Hastings in ability so that is why I was thinking of him as a CB.

Without any experience at CB & not all that much at LB I wouldn't put DeJong at CB ahead of our other candidates when qualifying begins. It's one thing to convert Brennan or Hastings to that position with 10 years or more experience at playing a defensive LB but DeJong doesn't have that. I'm also not sure that his superior skills in crossing & passing are going to come in handy at CB as they might elsewhere on the field.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Without any experience at CB & not all that much at LB I wouldn't put DeJong at CB ahead of our other candidates when qualifying begins. It's one thing to convert Brennan or Hastings to that position with 10 years or more experience at playing a defensive LB but DeJong doesn't have that. I'm also not sure that his superior skills in crossing & passing are going to come in handy at CB as they might elsewhere on the field.

I thought I remembered him playing some games at CB though if I am mistaken you may be right that there probably isn't enough time to convert him before WCQ.

Regarding Hastings I was one of the few here in favour of calling him up before the Gold Cup and he exceeded everyone's expectations. He showed that he can be a serviceable CB if we need to use him. On the other hand CB was still our weakest spot in the Gold Cup and Hasting's skill set is still pretty mediocre by international standards. I also am sceptical that he can consistently perform at the level he did towards the end of the Gold Cup, ie. was this the tournament of his career or is this his consistent playing level. The CB position on both sides is where I would most want to upgrade our starting lineup. I admit there are not a lot of choices superior to Hastings but this is due to lack of talent in that area rather than Hasting's abilities. If DeVos is still playing at his former level I think he would be an upgrade on one side. Since DeVos the only two players that have impressed me playing in this position are Nsaliwa and Hutchinson both of whom are currently midfielders with their clubs and offensive ones at that. It could be argued that both of them would have their skills somewhat wasted playing at the back but since we are weak there we may not have a choice and at the moment I would put Nsaliwa there and keep Hutch forward. Of course, were JDG2 to play for us this would free up some options for moving our midfielders around to where we may need them.