The Fan590 Soccer Show - Sept 20 edition

[VPjr]

Hi Everyone

If you have time, tune into tonight's edition of the Soccer Show on the Fan590 in Toronto. They offer a live stream on their website (www.fan590.com)

I was interviewed by Nigel and Bob in regards to the Black Wednesday protest and what we are trying to do to create change.

I will tell you upfront that I am not totally happy with how it went simply because I did not get the chance to cover all of my 5 main points, namely:

1) Canadian Soccer deserves better.

2) The growth of the game at the elite level has been stunted for as long as most of us can remember due to the lack of leadership at the National and Provincial levels. They have been far too focused on promoting the recreational side of the sport and ignored the need for coordinated elite player development and creating a viable national league structure.

3) The CSA and most Provincial Associations have no clear direction for developing the best players in Canada. How can you reach a goal if you don't have a plan on how to get there?

4) The CSA and most Provincial Associations are totally unnaccountable and operate essentially in secret despite the fact that they receive taxpayer dollars as well as registration disbursements from clubs to fund their programs.

5) A grassroots uprising is needed. There is no other logical alternative because I can't conceive of any way that the CSA Board of Directors would ever relinquish its grip on power. We badly need a Crawford-esque independant inquiry but will this group ever allow for it to happen without applying pressure on their ability to get the funds needed to even exist? I think not.

These were the topics I hoped to have time to discuss but it was a short segment (maybe 8 minutes) and Nigel seemed incredibly intent on debating about why only 9000 fans showed up for the Costa Rica v Canada game. I was a bit disappointed that this was his main focus but I understand that its his show and he sets the agenda. I did my best to make my arguments and I think i slid in a couple of interesting facts that have been dug up recently.

I hope I did a good job of representing the average Canadian Soccer Supporter. If I misspoke, please let me know. I don't think I can make everyone happy all the time but I will do my best to continue to beat the drum for change in a way that is as inclusive as possible.

[An Old Fullback]

What's your solution? Lots of complaints, not a real solution yet. Get rid of board, ok, what's left. Get rid of provincial organizations, ok, what's left. Might as well call it a federal election, you want every club to in the country to vote. Who will even pay for the election..profits from selling black t-shirts?

As it stands now, at least what happens in the club I am in, I understand every player in Canada pays about $7 to the CSA, and depending on the province, a fee to the province as well. Will the new "football association" get money towards the national teams by telling every club to double the fees, and we will elect a guy on a bulletin board that has an anonymous name to run it. Try telling a club like Lac St.Louis with 30,000 members they will write a check for $360,000, to a new association, so that national teams can have more friendlies, and we can hire some Brazilians, or Argentinians for $1 million each.

My first guess is they would tell the new association to take a hike, we'll spend the $360,000 to build a few fields. Any good ideas out there besides kicking everyone out?

[ag futbol]

Since when has anyone been saying the plan was to double the fee? you pulled that out of thin air.

It's pretty obvious what has been advocated as a solution, it's called replacing the board of directors with a group of people that represents more than just a set of regional interests. It should represent industry, pro clubs, grass roots soccer, and national teams.

[Daniel]

Hire some PROFESSIONAL people with a BUSINESS background who will be able to go get SPONSORS (and $$$) to make the national teams and programs INDEPENDENT from the provincial associations and local clubs.

Money from the clubs should be used to run coaching, refereeing and development programs, national competitions, as well as (possibly) a portion for youth national teams.

You hit the nail on the head with the coaching example: what's good for the national team is not necessarily good for the paying clubs. As long as these clubs and their representatives (and by extension, provincial reps) decide of the direction the CSA will take for EVERYTHING, then it is very hard to move boldly forward.

Volunteers can help tremendously (we saw it with the U20 WC), but they shouldn't be the ones in charge and calling the shots.

It is also my opinion that player development should stay localised and decentralised, with collaboration with the CSA. The CSA is not a club team.

[The Beaver]

To be clear, An Old Fullback, nobody here is suggesting that the Voyageurs or any of our affiliates take over the running of soccer in this country. Our mandate is clear and always has been: We support Canadian soccer.

What we are asking for is a NEW organizational structure, one that is PROFESSIONALLY run by experienced individuals who are held accountable for their actions etc. Nobody here is suggesting that we should screw over the grassroots associations--not at all.

Keep in mind that success at the international level--our senior men's team in particular--will translate into increased corporate sponsorship (everyone loves a winner) for the CSA--and therefore the regional associations--as well as an increase in overall interest in the game and improved player registration at the regional level, which translates into more money for the associations to build fields.

We need an organizational structure at the CSA that allows for experienced, talented professionals to develop and execute this sort of vision. Looking at what Australia has done is a great example of how we can improve in all areas.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by An Old Fullback

What's your solution? Lots of complaints, not a real solution yet. Get rid of board, ok, what's left. Get rid of provincial organizations, ok, what's left. Might as well call it a federal election, you want every club to in the country to vote. Who will even pay for the election..profits from selling black t-shirts?

As it stands now, at least what happens in the club I am in, I understand every player in Canada pays about $7 to the CSA, and depending on the province, a fee to the province as well. Will the new "football association" get money towards the national teams by telling every club to double the fees, and we will elect a guy on a bulletin board that has an anonymous name to run it. Try telling a club like Lac St.Louis with 30,000 members they will write a check for $360,000, to a new association, so that national teams can have more friendlies, and we can hire some Brazilians, or Argentinians for $1 million each.

My first guess is they would tell the new association to take a hike, we'll spend the $360,000 to build a few fields. Any good ideas out there besides kicking everyone out?

Thanks for stopping by. So, we'll see you at the next CSA meeting, I suspect?

[VPjr]

An Old Fullback....it's too bad to read your post. However, it appears that yours is a pretty typical sentiment among certain people involved in Canadian soccer.

I can easily understand why a local club is suspicious of the National organization we have now. You send the $7.00 per kid and what do you get? No Direction, No Planning, No Accountability, Little to no Success from our National Teams, etc... I could go on and on about what you don't have.

You might want to ask yourself the same thing when it comes to the money you send to your province and your district, which is actually a larger figure than the $7.00 that the CSA gets. Are we getting value for that money. Maybe, but maybe not? Maybe we simply have too many levels of bureaucracy? Maybe some of that money should be reinvested in coaching, facilities, Academy programs, etc... I've got a vivid imagination. I could think of a lot of good uses for the $25.00-$30.00 that goes to the various Associations currently.

Your's is the type of cynicism that has kept people from seeking change before. It's impossible to envision a different future so we accept the mediocre present that we wallow in. Australia proved that a National Body can be blown up and a fresh start can be accomplished without "stealing" more money from the grassroots. There just needs to be the political will at the top and the grassroots pressure from the bottom to make it happen.

And, by the way, there are no profits from selling T-Shirts...Trust me. And Mrs. VPjr ain't happy about it.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by An Old Fullback

What's your solution? Lots of complaints, not a real solution yet. Get rid of board, ok, what's left. Get rid of provincial organizations, ok, what's left. Might as well call it a federal election, you want every club to in the country to vote. Who will even pay for the election..profits from selling black t-shirts?

As it stands now, at least what happens in the club I am in, I understand every player in Canada pays about $7 to the CSA, and depending on the province, a fee to the province as well. Will the new "football association" get money towards the national teams by telling every club to double the fees, and we will elect a guy on a bulletin board that has an anonymous name to run it. Try telling a club like Lac St.Louis with 30,000 members they will write a check for $360,000, to a new association, so that national teams can have more friendlies, and we can hire some Brazilians, or Argentinians for $1 million each.

My first guess is they would tell the new association to take a hike, we'll spend the $360,000 to build a few fields. Any good ideas out there besides kicking everyone out?

I always chuckle when someone comes on ...defending the status quo.... you talk about Lac St. Louis ..maybe your from Montreal ? If so your view of soccer is based on what you see your province and the local Associations do... you may indeed be a former player...or just a parent volunteer..with little real expeirence outside your own club ...if so welcome to the site ... over time if you stick it out and begin understanding the games structure accross the country and basic structural faults as a National Sport Organisation your... isolationist view of the game may well change.

Most of the talk here over the years about the games structure has led to many of the posters begining to realize fundamental structural change is required. Hang in with us, i am sure you will get to it too... for now you might want to ask yourslef why a international city like Montreal ..only fields one ..professional team, why does Lac St. Louis with 35 thousand members not have its own semi pro or pro team ?

If i am not mistaken ten dollars per player would give a budget of 350,000 dollars plenty of seed money to run a CPSL mens team .. why is it not done ? Ask your club president ..why the club that has been so long established lacks the desire to go to the next level.

[An Old Fullback]

Some good comments, thank you. As for the doubling of fees, yes, picked that out of the air. Maybe triple would be better? I only suggest that because of the comments about having many more games and preparation for national teams, just spend the money, but where will it come from. I can't imagine gate proceeds, ie Costa Rica, to warrant taking gambles on that. Yes, sponsorships would be better, all for it. Maybe some oil companies must jump it, and give it a shot. Having BMO on board, one of the largest financial institutions in the country, certainly isn't solving financial issues.

I honestly don't know the answer but what type of fees does the grassroots pay in England, France, Brazil, or the US? What does hockey pay here in Canada? I've asked some hockey people, didn't get an answer yet. However, I can see pro -clubs in countries mentioned, and their much bigger revenues helping out elite programs, but unlike them, and hockey here, we don't have that for soccer in Canada.

And VPjr, I know you aren't making on the tshirts, I've done enough for tournaments to know better. I believe my view about fees is the heavy majority, as I have heard it at every club AGM I've attended. I don't think that changes in clubs across Canada. Club president's don't like writing checks to anyone above, district, province or national.

And Mediaguy, can't see myself going for all that excitement, but if you are buying the drinks, well, rum and coke it is. Will keep it simple.

[Cheeta]

I think it should be mentioned as well that very likely there isn't a country in the western hemisphere where the Mens National Team isn't a cash cow. A money generating machine.

Does anybody really know exactly how much money the England brand is worth to the FA? What USA NT matches are worth to the USSF? Just two examples, never mind what is happening in the rest of Europe, Mexico and the world at large.

I'm sure if given an intelligent effort the MNT (and the WNT) could become a self substaining entity. Through gate revenue, targetted sponsorship and property rights.

There is no reason the senior national teams can't become at least self financing entities costing the card carrying players at the amateur level in Canada not a single cent.

In fact, a self financing senior program would free a million(s) of the taxes collected from card carrying players for other CSA programs.

But the amateur and the senior international bodies have to be seperated at the functioning level entirely.

The provincial bodies can carry on such as they are in whatever fashion which the grass-roots supporters for the amateur and various U20 and other national programs decide upon, but the senior programs would operate independent, generate revenue and seek funding seperately. Run by professionals in the manner deemed best.

It'll take time and some more money to develop. The senior programs are a neglected if not abused property so some real work is ahead of anyone who wants to take on the project but for a start we've got a stadium, a market to focus on, and fixed international dates to promote.

How is that for a start to a solution?

[Cheeta]

P.S. Rye and ginger for me...

[An Old Fullback]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

How is that for a start to a solution?

Cheetah, that is a great start. As far as the property rights, when I find a NT scarf, tshirt, or hoody, I'll get one, or two. The Winners sponsorship may be the start, but how much does the NWT command in the market. Did they get $100k, which wouldn't fund the team for a month, or enough to get them to a tournament or two? I will pass on a thank you the next time I go into a Winner's store, and ask that it be passed on to the manager. I already do my banking at BMO, although I never thought to thank them for the banking charges yet.

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by An Old Fullback

Some good comments, thank you. As for the doubling of fees, yes, picked that out of the air. Maybe triple would be better? I only suggest that because of the comments about having many more games and preparation for national teams, just spend the money, but where will it come from. I can't imagine gate proceeds, ie Costa Rica, to warrant taking gambles on that. Yes, sponsorships would be better, all for it. Maybe some oil companies must jump it, and give it a shot. Having BMO on board, one of the largest financial institutions in the country, certainly isn't solving financial issues.

I agree with you that player fees should not be funding national teams. If anything we should be working on cutting back what we are taking currently.

In order to improve our results we need to make more efficient use of the money we have, rather than beg for more.

quote:I honestly don't know the answer but what type of fees does the grassroots pay in England, France, Brazil, or the US? What does hockey pay here in Canada?

I can only speak to France. My brother did an exchange in Toulouse for one year and payed as a U18 player for a mid league club (something like 8th division out of 20). For one whole season (which mirrored the time of European club play) the registration fee was around 70 euros and it included various free give aways such as team track jackets. Apparently the government sponsors it heavily.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

I think it should be mentioned as well that very likely there isn't a country in the western hemisphere where the Mens National Team isn't a cash cow. A money generating machine.

This is a good point, but people are so used to the status quo that they can't appreciate it. The CSA if it were professional and if the clubs and youth were more demanding of it, would be generating its own resources, through sponsors, tv rights, merchandising and gates for national team matches all over the country. So the sentiment that the little guys and girls are carrying the weight is understandable, as it is really the fault of the amateur nature of the CSA itself, which feeds off the super-amateurs in clubs like the one referred to.

In Spain, because the Spanish federation is in court over financial wrongdoings and has not fulfilled requirements regarding financial reporting, their government funding has been withheld for the last 2 years. I am not sure if all, or a part, in any case it is pretty significant. But the Federation runs perfectly well on its own funds and other sources (tv, merchandising, rentals of facilities).

[VPjr]

Originally posted by ag futbol

I agree with you that player fees should not be funding national teams. If anything we should be working on cutting back what we are taking currently.

In order to improve our results we need to make more efficient use of the money we have, rather than beg for more.

[L.T.]

Did you guys know that we give the CSA more money through player registrations that the USSF gets from their registrations? Not per head, TOTAL!!!

I remember noting this at the Canada Club Soccer Symposium when the USL rep that was there talked about what their players remit to the USSF. I can't remember the numbers, but they have 10x as many players yet make due with less funding from registration fees.

I don't think we should support fee increases - it makes the governing bodies lazy. Instead of looking for alternate revenue streams, they always fall back to the fee increase option when they need money...

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

P.S. Rye and ginger for me...

When we win this battle, I'll be happy to buy all that contributed a drink. I know, I'll toss back a couple--I'm more of a beer man, though. I like the honey browns.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by L.T.

Did you guys know that we give the CSA more money through player registrations that the USSF gets from their registrations? Not per head, TOTAL!!!

I remember noting this at the Canada Club Soccer Symposium when the USL rep that was there talked about what their players remit to the USSF. I can't remember the numbers, but they have 10x as many players yet make due with less funding from registration fees.

I don't think we should support fee increases - it makes the governing bodies lazy. Instead of looking for alternate revenue streams, they always fall back to the fee increase option when they need money...

I agree with L.T.

What does the CSA do to earn the guaranteed $4-5 million per year in registration fee remittances? What can they point to as having been accomplished with that money?

Has the men's national team competed in a World cup? Nope (and please don't use the "our women's team made their World Cup because we know that it's not the same thing)

Do we have national league of any kind in place, even if only a U21 "major junior league"? Nope

Do we have a technical director? No..he quit...he knew it was a fruitless exercise

Do we have an experienced CEO? nope, the one they wanted to hire, then decided to fire has decided to sue.

Is there a plan, a roadmap for the future? I'm not aware of one.

They take alot of money out of the grassroots levels and its hard to find any positive examples of what they've done with that money. And yet they need more, presumably to cover U20 loses (if that story is true), to pay off Nykamp (if he wins his suit) and to bid for the 2011 WWC, which will likely lose even more money than the U20 because it is a lower profile event.

So...anyone starting to see why we need to get active at the grassroots level?

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by L.T.

Did you guys know that we give the CSA more money through player registrations that the USSF gets from their registrations? Not per head, TOTAL!!!

<snipped>

I don't think we should support fee increases - it makes the governing bodies lazy. Instead of looking for alternate revenue streams, they always fall back to the fee increase option when they need money...

I agree with this completely, we need to ween the CSA off of player registration fees. If I had the ability to restructure the CSA single handedly I would have them on a 5 year schedule that saw fees reduced substantially annually and then entered into the constitution that fees collected could be no more than a specific percentage of the fees charged by the province with the lowest overall registration fees (something that would equate with $1 or $2 per player on current fees). Concurrent with that would be a considerable reduction in the influence of the provincial organizations on operations of the CSA.

A reformed CSA has to be accountable for results, both on the field and on the financial front - sponsorship, turning the national team brand into a profit centre etc. etc. As long as we have to rely on squeezing more dollars out of little Johnny and little Sally we will see no meanigful change in operations or results.

[Guest Ed]

I would keep the fees the same (or less) and put them directly into the CSA(Amateur) wing responsible for amateur soccer - liason with the provincial orgs, national competitions, CSA coaching and referee training, youth training materials, etc.

I would go after an entirely separate revenue source in a number of sponsors who contribute DIRECTLY for the men's and women's team for the CSA(Elite) wing, responsible for national teams at all levels.