SCF08 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Do some of you guys follow the Dutch League and what do you know about it..?? I'm quite interested to know how ''our'' Dutch league is being seen by people from another continent. This is the current League standing after 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 There is far too little Eredivisie TV coverage for me to have an informed opinion from what I have seen, it strikes me as similar in quality to Portugal's 1st divison (which I do watch weekly). The styles are a bit different (Portugal is a bit slower but there is an emphasis on creativity, the Dutch style seems a bit more "systematic" but slightly quicker paced). Regardless, it's good football. I really believe that if we took the names of the back of the shirts in all the world's leagues, there would be a rethinking of what leagues produce the best quality of play. Often, we become biased because we don't recognize the names of the players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 Both Portuguese and Dutch League are indeed quite similar. Both cannot defend properly a part from the bigger teams and the individual skill attacking wise is really good. Only differences between the Leagues is that the Portuguese smaller teams are a bit weaker than the Dutch and their stadiums are shockingly bad , and the Portuguese teams are getting more money for their players..[}] Also the Portuguese like to attack more with pace (Quaresma , Nani , Ronaldo) while the Dutch are more street-footballers (Van Persie , Babel , Robben) But both Leagues are the starting point of some of the best attacking players in the world. Holland : Romario , Ronaldo , Ibrahimovic , Van Persie Portugal : Diego , Anderson , Cristiano Ronaldo , Quaresma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I follow the Dutch game a little bit, probably a little less now than 10 years ago. At the same time, I am not sure if the quality is as good as it was 10-20 years ago. Then again, I don't get to watch the Dutch game that much anymore and not because I don't want to. On starting points, I find this issue to be very subjective (the Brazilian league could make a strong case for four of the players mentioned) but I would agree that the Dutch league and the Portuguese league are good places to enter Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje I follow the Dutch game a little bit, probably a little less now than 10 years ago. At the same time, I am not sure if the quality is as good as it was 10-20 years ago. Then again, I don't get to watch the Dutch game that much anymore and not because I don't want to. On starting points, I find this issue to be very subjective (the Brazilian league could make a strong case for four of the players mentioned) but I would agree that the Dutch league and the Portuguese league are good places to enter Europe. The Dutch league today is the strongest ever. We now have 4 Championship candidates and other smaller teams outside the top 4 are buying some wonderful players for little money that surprises the whole Dutch league. - AZ Alkmaar (Coached by Louis van Gaal) are slight favourites. They play absolutely stunning football which is very comparible to Arsenal. They should have won the League and Cup last year but on the last day of play they lost to a relegation candidate and PSV ended up Champions on goal difference , with 1 goal seperating them from ajax. In the Cup final they absolutley outplayed ajax , got a goal wrongly disallowed , hit the post 3 times and lost eventually in a 18 penalty shoot-out...Their star players are the Belgian boys Moussa Dembele and Maarten Martens along with Brazilian Ari. - ajax have sold 2 really good and important players (Wesley Sneijder to Real Madrid and Ryan Babel to Liverpool) and are in trouble a bit. They havent been firing as a team at all with new signings Alberto Luque and Luis Suarez (He has been their best player by far) and got eliminated in the Champs League qualifiers against nobody's Slavia Prague. Also the injuries of Edgar Davids and Gabri didnt help so they lost their whole midfield. They fully rely on their attack with Luis Suarez and Klaas jan Huntelaar and Jaap Stam in defence. - PSV have a very young team right now after Philip Cocu retired and Alex left for Chelsea and Kone for Sevilla but they have got good potential. They will need some time though and I dont expect them to be really good in the Champions League like they were the last few seasons. Ibrahim Affelay and Ismael Aissati are two very exciting young midfielders who came through the PSV youth academy. Affelay already has one Dutch cap with his 19 years of age... - My team Feyenoord has gone through an amazing transformation. After the Uefa Cup win in 2002 everything has been going downhill and one bad thing after another happened with last year being the worst season in the last 20 years. There was a terrible team on the pitch , the chairman was forced to leave , we got evicted from the Uefa Cup due to crowd trouble and we ended up with no European Football. Former Feyenoord youth player Giovanni van Bronckhorst and his agent were the ''directors'' of the comeback of Feyenoord by luring players like Roy Makaay , Tim de Cler and Kevin Hofland to come and join us alongside the manager Bert van Marwijk who was here when Feyenoord won the Uefa Cup. They paid for all these transfers by selling Royston Drenthe to Real Madrid. Feyenoord needed these ''old experience heads'' because they now have the most talented bunch of young players of Holland... (Your) Jonathan de Guzman , Nuri Sahin and Luigi Bruins are the most important ones and will all join Europe's elite clubs in the future. - Candidates for European Football are SC Heerenveen who have a true diamond with Afonso Alves. Scored 34 goals in 31 games last year and he's a regular for Brazil. And also FC Twente are candidates to end up in the top 6 with former PSV assistants of Guus Hiddink (Fred Rutten , Rene Eijkelkamp) ans their managerial duo. The final candidate could be Roda JC who have more belgians playing for them than Dutch but they are really good alongside Canuck Marcel de Jong) I think you are sort of up-to-date now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I've never heard of it referred to as the "Dutch Premier League" before. Anyway, its obviously a world-class league. Not quite as strong as it was 12-14 years ago though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by amacpher I've never heard of it referred to as the "Dutch Premier League" before. Anyway, its obviously a world-class league. Not quite as strong as it was 12-14 years ago though. If far stronger than 12-14 years ago. There was 1 team that ruled back in them days (Also in Europe) and we all know who that was [V] Now it's a great exciting league with several teams performing well in Europe apart from ajax who are completely ruining the Uefa Coefficient table for Holland by losing twice in the Champions League qualifiers... And I've changed the topic title regarding the League name.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I follow less dutch football now than before, but I always loved it I agree with SCF08. One of the problems of that championship was that there were 3-4 strong teams, 4-5 outsiders and the rest was poor. Now, the 3 bigs have AZ as company, and there are more and more serious followers. Kudos to Heerenveen that always produced very strong strikers ! And I miss teletekst The best way to stay informed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 I got into the Dutch league when I lived in that country for a year, from 2004-2005. I spent my first 6 months in a small town near Alkmaar, so I adopted AZ as my team. I didn't make it to any of their matches, however, because they were still playing in their small, old, stadium and tickets were scarce. When I moved to Amsterdam for the second half of my stay, I took in a few Ajax matches, though they were floundering at the time. What I remember most from those games were chants of "Koeman rot op!" (this was in the last days of Ronald Koeman as Ajax manager) and the fact that I found myself quietly rooting for the opposition each time. I'm pleased that AZ has continued to build itself into a strong side that plays attractive soccer, and that Feyenoord has rebounded from a few bad seasons so that there are 4 legitimate top teams that could do well in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jonovision I got into the Dutch league when I lived in that country for a year, from 2004-2005. I spent my first 6 months in a small town near Alkmaar, so I adopted AZ as my team. I didn't make it to any of their matches, however, because they were still playing in their small, old, stadium and tickets were scarce. When I moved to Amsterdam for the second half of my stay, I took in a few Ajax matches, though they were floundering at the time. What I remember most from those games were chants of "Koeman rot op!" (this was in the last days of Ronald Koeman as Ajax manager) and the fact that I found myself quietly rooting for the opposition each time. I'm pleased that AZ has continued to build itself into a strong side that plays attractive soccer, and that Feyenoord has rebounded from a few bad seasons so that there are 4 legitimate top teams that could do well in Europe. The old stadium was quite a place. AZ have never lost a home game in European Football in their history I think mainly because of that. It was one of the worst stadiums in Holland. Even Amateur sides had better... There new stadium which opened last year is really nice although they stole a bit of the design from my team Feyenoord..[}] There are already plans to expand it and maybe build a second ring because of the many applications of season tickets. They are sold out every game. And the Koeman rot op song is probably the most used Football song in Holland.. Last year at Feyenoord there were many Rot Op's for Erwin and at PSV there were a lot of singing Anti-Koeman people for Ronald.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putkaputka Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 SCF08: couple of questions, if you will indulge me: What is your opinion of the national side: is there still a divide between white/black players as I heard was some years ago. Do you like van basten as coach? When you said van persie, etc. are "street-footballers" did you mean they grew up playing in the street? When all the Dutch are getting so tall, why is Sneijder 1.70? -- just kidding on the last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by putkaputka SCF08: couple of questions, if you will indulge me: What is your opinion of the national side: is there still a divide between white/black players as I heard was some years ago. Do you like van basten as coach? When you said van persie, etc. are "street-footballers" did you mean they grew up playing in the street? When all the Dutch are getting so tall, why is Sneijder 1.70? -- just kidding on the last one 1. No , there has never been a sort of divide between black and white players. Everyone could get along with eachother but the black players back then (Davids , Kluivert , Seedorf) were a bit of primadonna's and behaved badly off the pitch. Only the managers had a problem with them but not the other players. But that's over 10 years ago around the Euro 96 time. Seedorf has really made a huge turnaround and he is the most likeable guy you'll ever meet. He's doing so much for other community's that arent quite that lucky it's amazing. Davids has improved as well but still has his bad moments but he's alright now. Kluivert is still a trouble maker and he will never change. 2. No , Van Basten is not a good manager. There has always been a ''ajax click'' around the DNT and it's a sort of disease that doesnt seem to go away. Van Basten was a youth coach at ajax before he was chosen to be the National Team Manager and had no experience at all. There were a lot of good other managers ignored. Huub Stevens , Guus Hiddink , Leo Beenhakker , Martin Jol didnt get a look... Also the fact that Van Basten keeps hanging on to a 4-3-3 system is crazy. It is the Dutch way to play and we should intent to play that system but if you dont have the proper players to play that system I think you should change. He also made crucial mistakes at the World Cup in 06 and everyone could see trouble coming. I think 90% of the nation were absolutely sick of him after the WC and wanted him to be sacked. I think the majority wants to see him sacked now as well. 3. Yes Rotterdam is the street football capital of the world. The skill you see there is aboslutely amazing. You have a lot of brick street courts filled with youth doing tricks and just trying to embarasse the opponents with playing the ball thru the opponents legs. Winning the match is slightly less important than doing to best trick... Van Persie grew up with Nourdin Boukhari (Sparta Rotterdam player) , Glenn Loovens (Cardiff City) and several other pro's. Van Persie was discovered on the street and got picked up by the Excelsior Rotterdam academy and was very quickly snapped up by Feyenoord (I think he was 12/13 or so) This is the sort of thing I mean. First 2 vids is Van Persie himself and 2nd is Royston Drenthe who left Feyenoord this summer for Real Madrid... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxsZCMfBdM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDOCJdN4ERg Van Persie also grew up with this guy. His name is Mourad Boukhari (Brother of the Sparta player) Mourad is one the best futsal player in Holland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i2WHn4z8q4 This is Rotterdam's/Holland's best street player Soufiane Touzani and possibly the world's as well (He's just doing keep-ups now however ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKLE41c5cs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD08mI2AdxA&mode=related&search= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 15, 2007 Author Share Posted September 15, 2007 Here are the results of the games today. De Graafschap vs VVV Venlo 3-2 (Will Johnson came on for DG in the 83rd min) Excelsior vs Heerenveen 2-5 PSV vs Vitesse 1-0 FC Groningen vs FC Utrecht 0-2 Heracles vs ajax 0-1 ajax got extremely lucky today. Playing against one of the weakest side in the league they created no clear chances and Heracles hit the bar and missed a penalty. But then ajax have Huntelaar who produces something like this... http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff277/raymaniagifjes4/0-1Huntelaar.gif Tomorrow are some more matches and the big one is Roda JC vs Feyenoord which will see Marcel de Jong compete against Jonathan de Guzman. Both players will be face to face as De Jong is left-back and JDG2 right-wing. EDIT : This are Sunday's results. Roda JC vs Feyenoord 1-3 (Goals 2x of De Guzman are in the Canadians Abroad topic) NEC vs NAC 0-1 Sparta Rotterdam vs AZ 2-2 Willem II vs FC Twente 1-3 And this is the new League Standing : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 Something that has always drawn my attention is how many goals are scored in Holland. When I watch games, which is not often, or highlights, I get the sense that defending is soft, that the ball is not pressured in the middle and the backs mark loosely. The technique on the ball is great, but I can't get over the weakness in marking close and tackling hard in defence. Since Dutch players make the jump up to a higher level with relative ease, I am not sure this is a big problem. But just thought I'd ask you if you think I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Something that has always drawn my attention is how many goals are scored in Holland. When I watch games, which is not often, or highlights, I get the sense that defending is soft, that the ball is not pressured in the middle and the backs mark loosely. The technique on the ball is great, but I can't get over the weakness in marking close and tackling hard in defence. Since Dutch players make the jump up to a higher level with relative ease, I am not sure this is a big problem. But just thought I'd ask you if you think I am right. Defending could definately be much better. Goalkeeping probably as well even though since last year the quality of goalkeepers has really improved a hell of a lot. In Hollands youth academies there is not a lot of attention to the physical part of the game and basic defending. Defenders in Holland need to be just as good on the ball as a full-back or midfielder even. Defenders in other countries simply dont have to think attacking wise and can fully concentrate on defending. In Holland the defenders are the first station to start a attack. But the attackers/strikers also have a part in this in being really good. (Ibrahimovic - Inter , Kuyt - L'Pool , Kalou - Chelsea , Van Persie - Arsenal , Nistelrooy - Real Madrid , Ronaldo - AC Milan. Almost every big team in Europe has a player in their starting XI that has played in the Dutch League so that says something of the attacking power of the Dutch League. So Defenders arent as good as they should be and the attacking nature of the Dutch League doesnt do them any favours as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyranger Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Question, Has Lensky cracked his first Team over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 But the attackers/strikers also have a part in this in being really good. (Ibrahimovic - Inter , Kuyt - L'Pool , Kalou - Chelsea , Van Persie - Arsenal , Nistelrooy - Real Madrid , Ronaldo - AC Milan. I'm still not sold on Dirk Kuyt. But Ryan Babel looks like he'll be a star in Liverpool for many seasons to come. Also, four Dutch attackers were on the pitch at the same time for Real Madrid yesterday in their champions league match against Bremen, and they looked real good together. Bremen were clueless about how to stop them! The rest of La Liga should be worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Johnnyranger Question, Has Lensky cracked his first Team over there? Do you mean if he had his debut yet..? The answer to that is Yes. He was in the starting line-up last year away to FC Twente. Since then he suffered a lot of injuries and he played 45 mins yesterday for the reserves (45 mins was agreed before game) and he did well. He played a lot as a sub as well during pre-season at left back. But he can play anywhere down the left side of the pitch and he's good with both feet. quote:Originally posted by amacpher I'm still not sold on Dirk Kuyt. But Ryan Babel looks like he'll be a star in Liverpool for many seasons to come. Also, four Dutch attackers were on the pitch at the same time for Real Madrid yesterday in their champions league match against Bremen, and they looked real good together. Bremen were clueless about how to stop them! The rest of La Liga should be worried. That was a great moment for Dutch football yesterday...How often do you see 4 foreign players from the same nation in the best club team of all-time. They really give Real Madrid something that they havent had for years... They made a great start in the league as well and midfielder Sneijder has already scored 4 goals in 3 games there. And 3 were absolutely stunning as well... And you share the opinion of a lot of people over Dirk Kuyt who havent seen him play a lot or followed him constantly. He became a pro quite late and at every transfer he made people didnt think he was going to make it big. But he became a crowd favourite everywhere (Utrecht and my Feyenoord) and he is one at Liverpool as well. His work-rate is something special and he sets up goals and attacks but his finishing in England could be better. He was leading the goalscoring and assist chart at the same time in Holland but he ''only'' bagged around 12 goals or so in his first season. But I believe he will be fine. He's a warrior who just cannot fail. He's already scored 3 times now in the Champions League so thats good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyranger Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 I asked of Lensky as he is a local(To us in Vancouver) boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 19, 2007 Author Share Posted September 19, 2007 + quote:Originally posted by Johnnyranger I asked of Lensky as he is a local(To us in Vancouver) boy I didnt quite know what you meant by ''cracked his first team''...[|)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted September 19, 2007 Share Posted September 19, 2007 Hey, thanks for the response on my defending comment. This is what I thought but I really was not sure. About Kuyt, he's a guy you have to watch play live. He is very impressive, but perhaps he just lacks that spark that enables him to score more. So what is the role of an attacker who does not score? Move him into the midfield perhaps? But he is a fascinating player to watch, great off the ball, but being a second striker or playmaker does not really favour the impression folks may have of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Here is the weekly round-up again. VVV vs NAC 1-3 Willem II vs Roda JC 1-0 Sparta vs Heracles 1-1 Vitesse vs De Graafschap 0-2 AZ vs ajax 2-3 PSV vs Feyenoord 4-0 Heerenveen vs FC Utrecht 2-3 Excelsior vs FC Groningen 1-3 FC Twente vs NEC 3-0 And the League Standings : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 The draw of the 3rd round of the Cup has just taken place and this is the result... Heracles Almelo - FC Omniworld MVV - FC Dordrecht Feyenoord - FC Groningen (Jonathan de Guzman and Jacob Lensky) Fortuna Sittard - FC Den Bosch FC Zwolle - Go Ahead Eagles Cambuur Leeuwarden - Excelsior (Brandon Bonifacio = Cambuur) FC Eindhoven - HFC Haarlem ADO Den Haag - Jong SC Heerenveen (Josh Wagenaar = ADO) De Treffers - NEC Deurne - UNA HHC Hardenberg - AGOVV Apeldoorn Groene Ster - Quick Boys Roda JC - De Graafschap (Marcel de Jong vs Will Johnson) Sparta Rotterdam - NAC Breda Ajax - SC Heerenveen RKC Waalwijk - BV Veendam AZ lost away to Brandon Bonifacio's Cambuur Leeuwarden which is one of the most surprising upsets in recent years. ajax were really close to getting the biggest upset ever in Dutch Football but they were extrmely lucky to beat amateur side Kozakken Boys after extra-time. PSV won against the youth team of Heerenveen but fielded an player that was suspended so they got evicted from the cup tournament. It's not the first time that this sort of thing happened to PSV. It happened to them once before and they also forgot 3 times to list players for their Champions League team (Ruud van Nistelrooy , John de Jong). I'm absolutely loving this offcourse as a Feyenoord fan haha.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 It's been Afonso Alves day in Holland. He broke the record set by Johan Cruijff and Marco van Basten by scoring 7 goals in one game. The old record was 6. Even with Heerenveen using all of their subs the manager decided to bring him off in order to give him a standing ovation. Heerenveen therefore had to continue with 10 men but with 9-0 ahead it doesnt make a huge difference does it.. Here are all the results and the league table. VVV vs FC Utrecht 1-2 PSV vs Willem II 3-0 NAC vs De Graafschap 1-0 Excelsior vs NEC 2-0 Sparta vs ajax 2-2 Vitesse vs Feyenoord 0-1 AZ vs FC Groningen 2-2 Heerenveen vs Heracles 9-0 And the new League Table : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 This week-ends results. Very little amount of goals this week..[V] De Graafschap vs Sparta Rotterdam 4-0 (Assist Will Johnson) ajax vs NEC 0-0 PSV vs VVV 3-1 Feyenoord vs Excelsior 1-0 Roda JC vs FC Utrecht 1-1 Heracles vs Vitesse 2-2 FC Groningen vs FC Twente 1-0 AZ vs Heerenveen 0-1 Willem II vs NAC 0-0 The League Table : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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