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Italy vs France [R]


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Brasil weren't that defensive in 2006. They scored 4 against Japan and the match against Ghana could've easily finished something like 4-3. But Zidane was amazing in the quarterfinals. When he plays like that, France are pretty much unbeatable.

Opinions generated also have a lot to do with expectations. If a European team did what Brasil did in the first 4 games, everyone would be saying that they're a breath of fresh air. But its Brasil so people expect to be blown away each time.

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quote:Originally posted by SCF08

History has proven that time after time. Italian club teams are boring and the MNT as well. This was the best World Cup they've ever played and they were still average and they should have lost against Australia but the ref helped them out with a injury time penalty as they were being outplayed.

My folks are Italian (and thus I tend to cheer for italy at World Cups and European Championships) and I cheer for Juve but I totally support this comment.

Roma was a breath of fresh air last season because they decided to play an up-tempo attacking style. Why others don't adopt that style, I don't know.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Quite frankly, blooding young players is no excuse for playing boring soccer. The saddest part of the last World Cup was watching two of the previously funnest teams to watch as a neutral (Brazil and Holland) play such dour, boring defensive soccer.

Yeah but we didnt play boring or defensive. Holland cannot defend and if we do we lose...

Our problem lay with Wesley Sneijder who was the defensive midfielder as Van Basten ''thought'' if would be good to put him there because of his passing and creative ability. He was supposed to spread play in a area were he would not be picked like he would if he was playing in his natural position.

But we couldnt find Van Nistelrooy at the World Cup and a striker that can take a lot of touches on the ball is vital when playing 4-3-3. Van Nistelrooy was being made a scapegoat by Van Basten and was being criticised for not doing enough and therefore Van Nistelrooy didnt play a full year for Holland. It wasnt his fault because the creativity was 40 yards back and a 35 year old defensive midfielder and a injury plagued Van der Vaart was closer to him than Sneijder.

Last Saturday when Van Nistelrooy played again he was much better because Sneijder played in a more attacking role and Giovanni van Bronckhorst was the holding midfielder. Also on the right central midfield position Demy de Zeeuw was excellent in supporting the striker and winning balls.

It was just poor choice of tactics at the World Cup that made us look poor and therefore boring obviously.

But being boring is in Italians Football roots...

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

There's no point going in circles with you, SCF08. Its not my fault if you can't see through your Dutch-tinged glasses.

I'm only explaining why our performance wasnt up to par in the last World Cup. I agree that we didnt play well and we defended more than we attacked but that's simply because of failed tactics.

And Johan Cruijff once said something very approtiate about the Italian way.

''The Italians cannot beat you , but you can sure lose against them''

Thats all I had to say on this.

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How many world cups have Holland won with their beautiful and exciting style of soccer?

At the end of the day Results count and Italy are the current world cup champs.

As for people like amachper, he has no guts. He only gets tough on the computer but I would bet anything he would say the same things he does on here to anyones face. If you want to make your racist comments, at least have the stones to say to someones face.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Italian soccer is the equivalent to New Jersey Devils hockey. Boring and awful to watch in the eyes of the opponent but Italian fans view it as an effective strategy for winning.

They have enough talent that I think Italy would win as often as the other big Euro nations if they played a more open style. They play a style that you would only expect from a team that is totally outmatched (on paper) by their opposition. So as one might expect, they do well against the top nations but struggle against weaker teams.

That might bode well for Scotland.

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quote:Originally posted by Forza_Italia

How many world cups have Holland won with their beautiful and exciting style of soccer?

At the end of the day Results count and Italy are the current world cup champs.

As for people like amachper, he has no guts. He only gets tough on the computer but I would bet anything he would say the same things he does on here to anyones face. If you want to make your racist comments, at least have the stones to say to someones face.

No , thats what you think. Results are great but it doesnt give you any allure or rememberance if you play like ****.

We only won one European Championship yes but we are playing to our full potential if you look at our country and population and that's good enough for us.

We were in 2 consecutive World Cup finals and invented Total Football and every supporter from another nation loves Holland and watching us play.

Thats what counts at the end of the day. Football should be attractive for the crowd and people should have a good time and admire the lads on the pitch.

You scare people away with your style of Football and a major majority thinks it's boring and a disgrace. You cant even fill your stadiums in the Serie A who are almost half empty everywhere. Even during European Games you often see stadiums with thousands of empty seats....

And no one remembers when Italy won their World Cups and who they won it with but they do know about Johan Cruijff and Dutch Football Domination during the 70s even if we didnt win any trophies...

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quote:Originally posted by SCF08

No , thats what you think. Results are great but it doesnt give you any allure or rememberance if you play like ****.

We only won one European Championship yes but we are playing to our full potential if you look at our country and population and that's good enough for us.

We were in 2 consecutive World Cup finals and invented Total Football and every supporter from another nation loves Holland and watching us play.

Thats what counts at the end of the day. Football should be attractive for the crowd and people should have a good time and admire the lads on the pitch.

You scare people away with your style of Football and a major majority thinks it's boring and a disgrace. You cant even fill your stadiums in the Serie A who are almost half empty everywhere. Even during European Games you often see stadiums with thousands of empty seats....

And no one remembers when Italy won their World Cups and who they won it with but they do know about Johan Cruijff and Dutch Football Domination during the 70s even if we didnt win any trophies...

I think you are blinded by your love for Holland again. Argentina has surpassed and replaced Holland and Brazil as the team neutrals love to watch.

Really, to say that Italy has no memorable players is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I think you are blinded by your love for Holland again. Argentina has surpassed and replaced Holland and Brazil as the team neutrals love to watch.

I've always liked Argentina more than Brasil. I'm also quite certain that I'm still in the vast minority. In fact, recently Brasil have been beating the Argies like a drum and as long as that continues, glory-hunters who want a South American team to cheer for will opt for Brasil.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I think you are blinded by your love for Holland again. Argentina has surpassed and replaced Holland and Brazil as the team neutrals love to watch.

Really, to say that Italy has no memorable players is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum.

That's not what I said MassiveAttack. Offcourse Italy has got memorable players but they are only known for their performances at their clubs and not in International Football.

No NTplayers of Italy has written real history and is remembered worldwide. Even at the last World Cup there is nothing to remeber them by and that look back on with smile on your face. They've got the trophy...That's all.

But all the recognition and glory went to Germany who were a joy to watch and Klinsmann who was a breath of fresh air.

That's what I meant.

You're right that Argentina are one of the most exciting teams to watch now but that doesnt mean we're not exciting as well only because we played 1 bad tournament.

We will be back in Euro2008. We didnt start to well in the Qualifying campaign but game after game the play is improving and the game against Bulgaria last Saturday was pleasing for the eye..

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Um, Baggio didn't leave his mark in 1994? Give me a break.

The reason no single player stood out for Italy in '06 is because they gave one of the greatest overall team performances in World Cup history. They played like a real team. Not a bunch of primadona, over-rated superstars like most of the other big name teams (England is a great example).

If anything, 2006 will be remembered more for Zidane's stupidity than the great play of Germany.

Nice try though. But your extreme bias still shows.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Um, Baggio didn't leave his mark in 1994? Give me a break.

The reason no single player stood out for Italy in '06 is because they gave one of the greatest overall team performances in World Cup history. They played like a real team. Not a bunch of primadona, over-rated superstars like most of the other big name teams (England is a great example).

If anything, 2006 will be remembered more for Zidane's stupidity than the great play of Germany.

Nice try though. But your extreme bias still shows.

Yeah Baggio did leave some memories with missing a penalty. I'm sorry but if you pick Baggio over superduo Bebeto/Romario or Hristo Stoichkov then you just want to be right...

The only Italian ever to come close to world-wide rememberance is Rossi who played to only 6 good games of his life at a European Championship and was never to be seen afterwards...That's the one and only good story you can tell about the Italians..[8D]

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Paolo Rossi, Golden ball in 1982, silver ball in 1978 and WC winner? This guy you're talking about?

I'm a big dutch fan, this is my team after Canada but I'm not blind like you. Cruijff is the only dutch player to ever have been named among the top 3 players of a WC while Italy have a at least 6 since 1978.

BTW, Italy performance in 2006 was a complete TEAM performance which was nice to see. people are blaming Italy for playing defensive but they were still attacking in stoppage time against Australia and Germany.

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quote:Originally posted by SCF08

Yeah Baggio did leave some memories with missing a penalty. I'm sorry but if you pick Baggio over superduo Bebeto/Romario or Hristo Stoichkov then you just want to be right...

The only Italian ever to come close to world-wide rememberance is Rossi who played to only 6 good games of his life at a European Championship and was never to be seen afterwards...That's the one and only good story you can tell about the Italians..[8D]

I'm finished discussing any issues with you because its obvious your bias makes you blind.

I never said that Baggio was better than those other players. I was just saying that he left his mark on the tournament. This is obvious to anyone who watched the event. You're attempts to nitpick my comments are weak.

The bottom line is that Italy played much more exciting soccer than your beloved Dutch did in 2006. Just get over it. It must hurt you a lot to admit the truth.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

Paolo Rossi, Golden ball in 1982, silver ball in 1978 and WC winner? This guy you're talking about?

I'm a big dutch fan, this is my team after Canada but I'm not blind like you. Cruijff is the only dutch player to ever have been named among the top 3 players of a WC while Italy have a at least 6 since 1978.

BTW, Italy performance in 2006 was a complete TEAM performance which was nice to see. people are blaming Italy for playing defensive but they were still attacking in stoppage time against Australia and Germany.

Attacking in stoppage time against the Aussies. They were being completely outplayed by the Aussies and from the one counter they got the most ridiculous penalty which was the game winner. The Aussies deffo deserved to go through.

Maybe I'm exaggerating (sorry for the spelling) but I still feel I'm mostly right. No Italian National Team player has the status of the likes like Cruijff and very very little have the status Van Basten , Bergkamp , Gullit.

Then I'd pick Rossi for sure as the only one who is in that category.

Baggio was great as well but a player that misses the final penalty in the final can't be picked. That separates the good from the great...

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

I'm finished discussing any issues with you because its obvious your bias makes you blind.

I never said that Baggio was better than those other players. I was just saying that he left his mark on the tournament. This is obvious to anyone who watched the event. You're attempts to nitpick my comments are weak.

The bottom line is that Italy played much more exciting soccer than your beloved Dutch did in 2006. Just get over it. It must hurt you a lot to admit the truth.

I already admitted that several times. I've already said that we were poor in the WC etc. I also said that the WC06 was their best tournament ever but still their level was average all-round which offcourse is till better than poor as we did.

Maybe I'm not so blind but you are just reading the things you want to read.

In the History of World Football the Italian NT has been boring and the Dutch have been exciting and loved all-round. That my point.

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quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack

Um, Baggio didn't leave his mark in 1994? Give me a break.

The reason no single player stood out for Italy in '06 is because they gave one of the greatest overall team performances in World Cup history. They played like a real team. Not a bunch of primadona, over-rated superstars like most of the other big name teams (England is a great example).

One of the biggest problems with the World cup is that it produces naive views like this.

Lets face it, these tournaments are pretty much crap-shoots from the quarterfinals onward (or you could say every match not involving an Asian or CONCACAF minnow). Lets not over-analyze beyond that.

There's a reason Italy didn't do anything in 2002 and 2004 and one of "the greatest overall team performances" still required the individual event of PK's to win. It's the same reason why, in 2004 Totti was the primadona, overhyped idiot wearing goat-horns while Rooney was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The reason: It's mostly a crap-shoot! Plain and simple.

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quote:Originally posted by SCF08

Attacking in stoppage time against the Aussies. They were being completely outplayed by the Aussies and from the one counter they got the most ridiculous penalty which was the game winner. The Aussies deffo deserved to go through.

Maybe I'm exaggerating (sorry for the spelling) but I still feel I'm mostly right. No Italian National Team player has the status of the likes like Cruijff and very very little have the status Van Basten , Bergkamp , Gullit.

Then I'd pick Rossi for sure as the only one who is in that category.

Baggio was great as well but a player that misses the final penalty in the final can't be picked. That separates the good from the great...

Italy was playing at 10 against 11 vs the Aussies on a very very suspect red card but they were still attacking at the end and were not being outplayed (how many great chances did the Aussies have in that game? 1?). BTW, the Neil grabbed Grosso's foot on the play, it was a correct call (but I'm not gonna discuss this here).

Your argument about Baggio missing a PK is the most stupid I've ever heard, by the same logic Zidane isn't a legend due to his headbutt....One play never defines a player, it's the overall play that counts and Baggio by scoring 5 goals in the knockout round had a terrific 1994 WC. Certainly even better than the bulgarian who didn't win his semi-final game while Baggio did...

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I have to get my 2 cents in on this one. Italy has had many dominant and memorable players.....Paolo Rossi...yes..but lets face it...it was only the stellar play of Bruno Conti that got Rossi the recognition he was bestowed. IMHO, not even Zidane could change a game like Baggio could. Zizou had skills but not the total vision that Baggio had.

As for the "dive", i think it was embellishment....that penalty would have been called no matter where or when.Yes it was harsh but Australia was being schooled before the red card And that is the answer i gave before I almost got my a$$ glassed by a bunch of crazy aussie fans while in Poland last year.....

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by SCF08

I've seen it now several times in a replay and it's surely looks like a dive..

[8D];)

I'm also sick of this discussion. I'm gonna bury my words and get on with more important matters ;)

Boring jingoistic thread. Still, that looked like a right penalty call when I was watching the game and it still does to me. If they hadn't called it it would have been a total scandal.

I think some people here have never played the game, you take on someone with a dribble and they flay in front of you feet forward you either try to get past or get creamed. What was the Italian player supposed to do, stop out of courtesy or try to follow the ball forwards? Good call, tough on the Aussies, but the right call for me.

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