What if...

[Danny Boy]

BMO is sold out.... all the fans are wearing black....

...and the MNT comes out wearing the black kit...???

[Soju]

Fans in the know will laugh at that and casual fans can read the strong anti CSA sentiments printed clearly on the black T shirts. Job of raising awareness still gets done though perhaps to lesser extent.

[CanadasBest]

Sold out? Hard to be optimistic about a sell-out crowd when I can get 4 row-2 tickets at centerfield a week before the game.

A sell-out would be a major success however.

[Danny Boy]

It was a hypothetical question...

[VPjr]

it would be interesting to see such a sea of black, that's for sure.

I am really starting to worry that the turn out at the game is going to be small....less than 10K I fear

[RS]

If it is less than 10k (and it really is starting to seem that way), then our protest - whether you agree with the methods or not - becomes that much more valid.

TFC can sell out an entire season, but the CSA can't sell out the first men's game here in 7 years?

[VPjr]

It almost feels like the CSA is purposely not promoting this game as hard as they can. How could they not be working with TFC? we had 18,000 for the Arg v Can U20 friendly (I know the tickets were part of the season ticket package but, still, that's a U20 friendly...these are the big boys, the one's we actually can see on TV from time to time).

I spoke to my local youth club and they are not actively promoting this match to their players or coaches at all. it's not even on their website anywhere. I looked at a bunch of websites for other Ontario youth clubs and saw no mention of the game at all. on the OSA site, you have to scroll halfway down the homepage to see anything about it. Very disappointing. This is the chance to expose a new generation of young players to their national team after letting the last generation of Toronto area youth never have a chance to see the Canadian team play at home. I don't know why the most basic marketing initiatives seem to be so foreign to the CSA. It should be so basic. I am convinced that many average soccer fans dont even know a game is going on.

[vancanman]

a game? I've heard people say in the past "Canada has a team?"

It may sound a bit unrelated, but the reason I'm talking about this is that OTHER teams can sell more tickets than the national team, even one individual egomaniac. Whitecaps might have a friendly with LA Galaxy if Becky can get over his boo boo before the end of the year. People are saying "Beckham is coming, Beckham is coming and the thing's sold 45 000 tickets. To see the local lads? No, to see Mr. Posh Spice. "Who is the other team?" "VANCOUVER...you know, here where we live" I have to tell them.

(I refer to Becky as an egomaniac because of his "hey it's me" tour of Asia.)

[JB_Tito]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

Sold out? Hard to be optimistic about a sell-out crowd when I can get 4 row-2 tickets at centerfield a week before the game.

A sell-out would be a major success however.

My friend bought 6 tickets behind the goal, south section, a week before the game and supporters section is not sold out not to mention central field.

[Gian-Luca]

Realistically a sell-out was always going to be unlikely. The game is on a Wednesday night and we've seen how other friendlies have done at BMO Field on a Wednesday night - the Benfica & Aston Villa games remain the two lowest-attended matches in TFC history, while I think the only league game which was announced as having just 19,000 in the stands (even though technically sold out) was also on a Wednesday night (the Houston) match. And while you can point out that this should be different because it is the first Canada match in a while, you can also turn around and point out that people actually have to go out & buy their tickets for this match, rather than receiving them as part of the season tickets package as was the case with the other two friendlies.

I mentioned before that I would be happy with 15,000 attending the match and I stick by that. Between 10,000 & 15,000 is okay. But under 10,000 would be disappointing, and frankly as much as it is the easy way out, I'm not sure we can simply blame that all on the CSA. I think the selling time for this game should have started much earlier (like when the game was announced) to allow sales to build the way they did for the U20) which is where I would criticize them. However, it was pretty well agreed here that the CSA should be marketing this game through the vehicle of TFC (rather than focusing on the soccer mom crowd), and they did exactly that. 14,000 TFC season ticket holders got word of this match some time ago, in fact they were given preferential treatment for it, and if the report from last week is true, it sounds like under a third took up the offer, which is disappointing. If the TFC season ticket holders are made aware of the game & decline to purchase tickets, that's up to them. And while it can be argued that some of the tickets are highly priced, if the cheapo-seats are still available as well then it diminishes the argument that the ticket prices are keeping people away.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

If it is less than 10k (and it really is starting to seem that way), then our protest - whether you agree with the methods or not - becomes that much more valid.

TFC can sell out an entire season, but the CSA can't sell out the first men's game here in 7 years?

Well there has been no lack of advertising. The fan has been running advertisements for couple of weeks now. It would be extremely satisfying and a resounding success to get the the kind of crowds that came out for Benfica and Aston Villa.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

However, it was pretty well agreed here that the CSA should be marketing this game through the vehicle of TFC (rather than focusing on the soccer mom crowd), and they did exactly that. 14,000 TFC season ticket holders got word of this match some time ago, in fact they were given preferential treatment for it, and if the report from last week is true, it sounds like under a third took up the offer, which is disappointing.

The one third number can be misleading. I will be at the game and yet I would count statistically as one of the 2/3 that didn't take them up on the offer. The window to buy, if you are a season ticket holder, was very small. The announcement came something like on a Thursday and you had to buy them by Sunday. I did get mine until later that week.

Still, if only one third of the season ticket holders took them, that means 5-6K. If you can get a walk up crowd of equal size, then thats not to bad. Not great mind you. Like you said, over 15K would be astounding. Under 10K would be a dissapointment. What we need to remember folks: This is a friendly!

The benchmark, for comparative purposes, would have to be that friendly versus Jamaica held at about the same time of the year. I would be scratching my head and at loss if it turns out that this crowd cant surpass that one.

[Cheeta]

Yeah, I was kinda guessing attendance would be along what G-L wrote depending on weather. Say 10K, maybe a bit more. Would be shocked if it got into the high teens but who knows? Some good press coverage leading up to the match combined with lovely autumn weather and you might get a enough people skipping out of work early for a decent walk up crowd.

Think Toronto is still re-learning this whole sports supporter thing, and this includes a lot of the TFC ticket holders to. After years of being used to events in Skydome football matches on the shores of Lake Ontario in autumn are going to be a real treat for some I-am-sure. It's going to take some getting used to.

P.S. Yeah, if the lads came out in the alternative black kits it would be quite a lark. And maybe the most clever (and I'd also say bold) thing the CSA has ever done. Do not see it happening though.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

It almost feels like the CSA is purposely not promoting this game as hard as they can. How could they not be working with TFC? we had 18,000 for the Arg v Can U20 friendly (I know the tickets were part of the season ticket package but, still, that's a U20 friendly...these are the big boys, the one's we actually can see on TV from time to time).

I spoke to my local youth club and they are not actively promoting this match to their players or coaches at all. it's not even on their website anywhere. I looked at a bunch of websites for other Ontario youth clubs and saw no mention of the game at all. on the OSA site, you have to scroll halfway down the homepage to see anything about it. Very disappointing. This is the chance to expose a new generation of young players to their national team after letting the last generation of Toronto area youth never have a chance to see the Canadian team play at home. I don't know why the most basic marketing initiatives seem to be so foreign to the CSA. It should be so basic. I am convinced that many average soccer fans dont even know a game is going on.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I really believe that they did it right this time. They went through TFC and they are actually running quite a few add on the radio. For a friendly, I dont know what else you can do.

I'm a big booster of of getting TO into the national team fold and I have been really critical in the past of the CSA venue selections because they completely ignored eastern canada and IMO has hurt the following and support at national level. Any national team cant ignore an area of teh cointry where 60-70% of the people live. Just like it cant totally ignore the west.

But just as I was have been critical of fan turn out Edmonton in the past, specifically for the WCQ against Honduras, I am not going to appply a double standard when it come to TO. I beleive that venue selection is important for growth of the game in canada. Too often, in my opinion we tend to make excuses. I was in Edmonton for the last qualifier and I saw an event that was quite fairly well built up in the media there. It was gorgeous Sunny day on a long weekend with nothing much else going on in town at the time. Therefore I took on the appologists in this forum, at the time, from that area who tried to justify. So I am not going to be hypocrite when it comes to TO.

I believe, as mentioned earlier, that a turn out below 10K would be disappointing all things considered. If this happens consistently ( Low turn outs) this discussion would be best helped by focusing on other reasons other than CSA, lack of promotion, etc etc. We, voyageurs, have trotted those excuses out far too often.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Still, if only one third of the season ticket holders took them, that means 5-6K. If you can get a walk up crowd of equal size, then thats not to bad. Not great mind you. Like you said, over 15K would be astounding. Under 10K would be a dissapointment. What we need to remember folks: This is a friendly!

The benchmark, for comparative purposes, would have to be that friendly versus Jamaica held at about the same time of the year. I would be scratching my head and at loss if it turns out that this crowd cant surpass that one.

Walk-up crowds on a Wednesday night are going to be minimal, I think. Maybe if we were still playing at Varsity and you could literally actually walk up to the game it might be more significant, but in this case the majority of people have to drive down & don't have a lot of time between getting off work at 5 & getting to the game at 7. Actually the starting time is another thing one could critique the CSA for, or MLSE (who run the stadium & have also had 7pm start times) or whoever is responsible, as I still don't see why they can't move it to 7:30pm to give people some more time to get there on a weeknight.

As for the Jamaica game in Montreal, that was on a weekend (or possibly Labour Day Monday, but for all intents & purposes the same thing), and weekend help with attendance - we've seen that time & time again. But having said that, I'd like to see us get above that crowd (which I think was 8 or 9 grand IIRC).

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I'll have to leave work early in order to make it down there. Its just that difficult to make it for seven PM. When the argo and jays played at the ex, CFL football games were played only on weekends and the Jays, if I am not mistaken, had 7:30 or 8:00PM start times.

[Alex]

Theres going to be 2 less tickets now, as I'll be there for my first Canadian game ever. Booya.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I'll have to leave work early in order to make it down there. Its just that difficult to make it for seven PM. When the argo and jays played at the ex, CFL football games were played only on weekends and the Jays, if I am not mistaken, had 7:30 or 8:00PM start times.

The Leafs also play on weeknights at 7:30, and they have a subway, train & go station on their front doorstep, unlike BMO Field. I just don't get it.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Alex

Theres going to be 2 less tickets now, as I'll be there for my first Canadian game ever. Booya.

Excellent - but I take it you mean "two less tickets un-sold".

[Alex]

Yeah I guess you could say that, just doing my part, trying to put fans in the stands!!!

I'll really be disappointed if theres under 10k

[SF]

I think the distribution decision was correct. The TFC approach is the right one going forward. The advertising has been decent, but not great. The real problem is pricing. The ticket prices are way too high for a friendly. Not sure who made that decision, but it was a bad one.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

TFC can sell out an entire season, but the CSA can't sell out the first men's game here in 7 years?

To be fair, selling tickets is ML$EL's line of business. Whereas thats not CSA's business. So who has the greater expertise in this field? and would it fair to expect the same level of expertise and assets from a soccer governing body run in large part by volunteers and funded but Govenments, registration fees,and teh odd corporate sponsor. Wheras ML$EL can leverage from existing customer data bases and extpertise in this field from their other business ventures.

As I have begun allude to in my posts above, if the attendance is sub par this time around, its high time that we get off that old and tired excuse of poor promotion by the CSA. I have more to say on this topic, but I'll wait and see what the outcome is before jumping the gun.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by SF

I think the distribution decision was correct. The TFC approach is the right one going forward. The advertising has been decent, but not great. The real problem is pricing. The ticket prices are way too high for a friendly. Not sure who made that decision, but it was a bad one.

In terms of getting bums in the seat you may be right. Some time ago Colin Lindford was justifying the decision to give the FIFA U20 final to Toronto on the basis that the fans in Toronto are willing to shell out top ticket prices whereas in Edmonton they were not. He also said they lost money with 50,000 in the stands for the U19 because the tickets incredibly dirt cheap. The CSA's thinking may have been that they'd rather have less than a full house paying more cash than a full house at cheaper prices if the former meant more cash in their pockets. After all, 4 people paying the $100 price is going to earn them more money than 39 people who buy the $10 tickets.

Ideally of course you want to get a full house & make a good profit. It may be that they mis-judged what the top dollar should be for a friendly. But I will wait to see what the final outcome is before making a final conclusion.

[SF]

You are correct in that we should wait for the final outcome. Pricing, at the best of times, is a difficult decision.

In this case I would argue that it would have been of first importance to fill the stadium. There hasn't been a game in TO in 7 years and, by all indications, this will be the primary location for WCQ. A higher premium could be charged for those games and, with a full house for a friendly, you've created a captive audience.

[VPjr]

I did forget that TFC sent out the early bird notice to Season Ticket holders...my bad. I actually took advantage of that early window so I'm surprised I forgot.

My question for the CSA is, once it was clear that Plan A (marketing to TFC's season ticket base) did not produce anywhere near 10,000 ticket buys, why did they not revert to a more effective Plan B. If it were my call, any Plan B I would devise would certainly include marketing to youth clubs in an effort to fill the place with the next generation of soccer fan. We have already gone 7 years without games in Toronto...why would this game not have been a good opportunity to promote to families and clubs. I know for a fact that TFC turned to many local clubs in an effort to sell tickets to Aston Villa when it became clear that they were having some trouble selling the remaining 5000+ seats that were available for the general public. My local club took almost 50 kids down to that game. Why would this game be any different? I know hardcore supporters people love the idea of a stadium filled only with true supporters but if true soccer supporters don't want to fork out the dough, or can't make it on a Wednesday night, why not actively try to promote through alternative channels. The CSA could have worked with Tickemaster to set aside sections of the stadium for families and youth clubs so that supporters don't have to worry about muffling their cheers to avoid polluting the minds of the young and impressionable.

I just think that in a GTA region with more than 100,000 people involved in youth soccer at various levels, it should not be too tough to get 5% of them to come to the game to help make the stadium look reasonably full. Just my 2 cents. Clearly I'm in the minority on this one and that's cool.

By the way, I agree with G-L...counting on a good walkup crowd is a stretch. On a Wednesday night, the people who have tickets are coming and those without are unlikely to decide at the last minute to come out. However, taking transit to BMO is a snap. It's the only way I ever go down. I'll drive on Wednesday only because I have all those T-shirts to bring down.