Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Let's not forget the whole "Jesus Saves" side of Simoes. I can see why some of the Canadian players might be a little turned off playing for a religious zealot. Some of them with longer memories might also remember the controversy he caused in Toronto when Canada played Jamaica with some rather dubious comments about black athletes. The mainstream media, while largely ignoring the game itself, were all over those comments. That should easily have been huge red flag for the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Some of them with longer memories might also remember the controversy he caused in Toronto when Canada played Jamaica with some rather dubious comments about black athletes. The mainstream media, while largely ignoring the game itself, were all over those comments. That should easily have been huge red flag for the CSA. I don't recall...please refresh our memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard This is exactly the type of mentality that holds the national team back and why most people in the soccer community find it very hard to take the national team seriously or summon up much in the way of enthusiasm for it. That attitude amongst the players may have a greater effect in Canada because of the situation we are in, but the players have the same attitude that players from all over the world have, and it doesn't seem to stop the other countries from being successful. The only difference in this case is that it is not the usual case of the players souring on a coach after being coached by him for some time. This is the players souring on a coach before he even started, which I think says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I don't recall...please refresh our memories. I don't recall the exact comments he made so won't try to put words into his mouth on what is a sensitive issue, but I think it was something that he felt was complimentary to black athletes (after all he was coaching Jamaica at the time) but made a lot of people raise their eyebrows in disbelief because it heavily implied something else that wasn't so complimentary & it was about the alleged superiority of black athletes. I can remember the topic even being discussed in radio talk show programs that were non-sports related. I wouldn't be surprised the players who were in the national team program at the time (like Jim Brennan, who in fact scored the winner for Canada for that game) remembered all the fuss that was caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I suspect they would then be equally turned off if they had to have Kaka in their team because he is equally that way. These are professional players and if it meant they would win, they would play. There is far too much speculation going on about this and too little fact. quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Let's not forget the whole "Jesus Saves" side of Simoes. I can see why some of the Canadian players might be a little turned off playing for a religious zealot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I also heard from a guy who heard from a guy who heard from a guy that when Simoes was in elementary school, he used to pick his nose and eat it..... Gian-Luca, I'm not a big fan of Scolari for a lot of reasons. One being a widely reported statement he made that homosexuals should be hung. But I recognize that he is a soccer coach and not a sociologist. And despite my criticisms of him as a coach, I recognize that he is among the best. I wouldn't put Simoes in the same category as Scolari, but to paint the guy as bad choice for MNT coach for stupid comments he made, is stupid. You're hired for football reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by River City Gian-Luca, I'm not a big fan of Scolari for a lot of reasons. One being a widely reported statement he made that homosexuals should be hung. But I recognize that he is a soccer coach and not a sociologist. And despite my criticisms of him as a coach, I recognize that he is among the best. I wouldn't put Simoes in the same category as Scolari, but to paint the guy as bad choice for MNT coach for stupid comments he made, is stupid. You're hired for football reasons. Actually I had not heard the quote you mentioned from Scolari, but I think it would be incredibly stupid to hire someone who made a comment like that on record, no matter what his record was like previously. Can you imagine what a public relation disaster that would be for the Men's National team to have a headline like "Canadian Men's Soccer Coach Believes Gays Should Be Hung" slapped all over the newspapers? This is Canada remember....you think that would go down well? In any event, the point I was making is that why the players felt about Simoes would be a bad choice, since that appears to be what a number of them thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 This is where I disagree with you. Regardless of how stupid a coach off the field, his job is to produce results on the field. I'm sure the Portuguese FA had a chat with Scolari about toning down the personal opinions to the media prior to hiring him. If the CSA had such a talk with Simoes, I'm sure he would've followed suit. Back to the point you were trying to make, if the players did indeed have an issue with it, I'm sure it would have come out by now. Especially since DeRo was on the original screening committee or whatever it was. Woo-hoo....1000 posts for me and none of them at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by River City This is where I disagree with you. Regardless of how stupid a coach off the field, his job is to produce results on the field. So a coach can pretty well make any disgusting comment he wants as long was he wins (or in Scolari's case, comes reasonably close?) We'll have to agree to disagre on that one. quote: Back to the point you were trying to make, if the players did indeed have an issue with it, I'm sure it would have come out by now. Especially since DeRo was on the original screening committee or whatever it was. Well the players did seem to have an issue with him & it does seem to have come out now (hence the article).....and the scuttlebutt is that DeRo tipped off Hart to get the wheels in motion to ensure that Hart & Mitchell would stay & Simoes wouldn't be hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 A coach's job is to mold a winning team. Period. If he says something stupid and the media chooses to report it, then it's the Association's responsibility to handle the situation. Athletes aren't politicians chosen by the electorate nor are they religious elders who must be held to a higher standard than the rest of society. They'll say and do stupid things. It's their employers who must clean up the mess or try to prevent them. Your use of the word 'seem' renders your first line of the second paragraph a matter of personal opinion, because to me it 'seem's' the contrary. I thought the scuttlebutt was that DeRo tipped off Hart to ensure there would be Canadian coaches on board, not to get rid of Simoes altogether, something that the committee (apparently) agreed upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by River City A coach's job is to mold a winning team. Period. If he says something stupid and the media chooses to report it, then it's the Association's responsibility to handle the situation. Athletes aren't politicians chosen by the electorate nor are they religious elders who must be held to a higher standard than the rest of society. They'll say and do stupid things. It's their employers who must clean up the mess or try to prevent them. In this country, it is highly likely that their employers would clean up the mess by firing their asses for a comment like the one Scolari apparently said. Or not hiring them to begin with. quote: I thought the scuttlebutt was that DeRo tipped off Hart to ensure there would be Canadian coaches on board, not to get rid of Simoes altogether, something that the committee (apparently) agreed upon. Possibly - but I highly doubt it, especially with the other player's comments now at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Well the players did seem to have an issue with him & it does seem to have come out now (hence the article).....and the scuttlebutt is that DeRo tipped off Hart to get the wheels in motion to ensure that Hart & Mitchell would stay & Simoes wouldn't be hired. And you are comfortable with that cosy old boys club style of approach? Do you think that kind of thing typically happens in the case of countries that actually qualify for the World Cup finals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I'd rather have a good coach who makes stupid comments once in a while than Mitchell who proved himself useless with the U-20 and blamed everything on the players. As for the other palyer's comments now at hand... quote:Originally posted by loyola "There's a lot of people in the CSA that are looking after themselves," Brennan, who has represented Canada 43 times with the senior team, said . "And there are a lot of buddy-buddy [situations] in the CSA, which is a joke, and it shouldn't be that way. It should be soccer first. From reading this comment, the hiring of Mitchell is another example of the buddy-buddy system at work. quote:Originally posted by loyola However, Linford certainly wasn't winning praise from SOME of the players regarding his treatment of the men's team's coaching situation. ... "Going out and hiring a foreign coach and paying him loads and loads of money might not necessarily have been the best choice," TFC defender Adam Braz said. "I don't think that saying Dale was the wrong choice was right at all by Colin." From my understanding, this is the only anti-Linford quote in public about the Mitchell-Simoes thing. And Adam Braz' self-interest has to be pointed out here. With Mitchell at the helm, Braz has a way better chance of getting selected than if an outsider comes along and all of a sudden Braz has to compete for his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard No actually I'm not entirely comfortable with that. However, I do think it demonstrates a certain closeness, chemistry & mutual belief amongst the team & its staff that we'd be idiotic to try to destroy, rather than foster. Team chemistry & belief produces success. And yes, I do think that these traits are common in teams that not only qualify for the World Cup, but actually win it. See World Cup 2006 for further proof of that. Tell me which Gold Cup team looked better & more successful - the 2003 Edition which had half the players refuse the call up because they couldn't stand the coach & had half the other players perform without much chemistry, or the 2007 edition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by River City I'd rather have a good coach who makes stupid comments once in a while than Mitchell who proved himself useless with the U-20 and blamed everything on the players. Mitchell was pointing the finger at the development system. That's why he pointed to the fact that the talent of the 2007 team was no different most of the age groups at that level. He was pointing at the talent the system has been producing cycle after cycle. But I digress. quote: However, Linford certainly wasn't winning praise from SOME of the players regarding his treatment of the men's team's coaching situation. ... "Going out and hiring a foreign coach and paying him loads and loads of money might not necessarily have been the best choice," TFC defender Adam Braz said. "I don't think that saying Dale was the wrong choice was right at all by Colin." From my understanding, this is the only anti-Linford quote in public about the Mitchell-Simoes thing. What do you think Brennan is referring with the "There's a lot of players that didn't agree with him or what he wanted to do" comment? Do you think they were opposed to hiring a new CEO or getting more friendlies for the national team? Or, as the article is talking about, his plan to hire Simoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I prefer the 2000 edition that actually won it under Osieck and see that sort of player power as being a major problem. The last thing the CSA should have done is meekly cave into it. Osieck had to go but he should have been replaced by somebody similar from overseas and the players involved should only have got back into the new squad after apologizing and pledging that there would be no repeat performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 "For a few of us, this is going to be our last crack," the 30-year-old Brennan said. slightly OT but it sure sounds like Brennan feels like he is still in Canada's 18 man roster, a point that some here would highly doubt I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What do you think Brennan is referring with the "There's a lot of players that didn't agree with him or what he wanted to do" comment? Do you think they were opposed to hiring a new CEO or getting more friendlies for the national team? Or, as the article is talking about, his plan to hire Simoes? I'm not sure, but I'm not going to speculate as you are doing. If Brennan was indeed referring to the Simoes-Mitchell hiring decision, he would have been quoted as so. Besides, if the players main source of contention is the choice of coach, this is a moot argument. It's not the player's decision who to hire as coach. This isn't junior level soccer where the coach needs to make nice with the parents. Do you think Ronaldo had much influence on whether Capello was hired at Real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by nolando "For a few of us, this is going to be our last crack," the 30-year-old Brennan said. slightly OT but it sure sounds like Brennan feels like he is still in Canada's 18 man roster, a point that some here would highly doubt I'd imagine. He was asked to join the Gold Cup squad but turned down the offer to stay with TFC who really, really needed him. That said, I'd have taken Jimmy B over Martin Nash although Nash did not do too badly. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Some of them with longer memories might also remember the controversy he caused in Toronto when Canada played Jamaica with some rather dubious comments about black athletes. The mainstream media, while largely ignoring the game itself, were all over those comments. That should easily have been huge red flag for the CSA. Oh, i remember that article well. He was stating the future of the sport is black. That the most successful countries are black -> ie. Brasil soccer is mostly black etc. And as an Agnostic i don't like religion "in my face", that's the whole reason i'm Agnostic. I'll make my own mind up on my own beliefs thank you very much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 He was asked to join the Gold Cup squad but turned down the offer to stay with TFC who really, really needed him. That said, I'd have taken Jimmy B over Martin Nash although Nash did not do too badly. db Yeah but Nash is hardly starting 18 material himself...and when you look at our midfield at full health I don't see Jimmy anywhere near the bench even, not unless you want him over the likes of Bernier or Issey, or Hume, which I certainly don't. It's true that he would be more likely to replace someone in defense but many who follow TFC wonder if he has the wheels to catch the fastest that CONCACAF has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 I assume you haven't heard about his required pre-game prayer sessions then? I don't understand how this can be seen as an issue considering he coached Iran, who I highly doubt would have been involved in any supposed pre-game Christian prayer sessions. If there was ever a concern about Simoes pushing unwanted Christian beliefs in the faces of his players, I believe this Iranian example proves that Simoes does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by River City I'm not sure, but I'm not going to speculate as you are doing. If Brennan was indeed referring to the Simoes-Mitchell hiring decision, he would have been quoted as so. Besides, if the players main source of contention is the choice of coach, this is a moot argument. It's not the player's decision who to hire as coach. This isn't junior level soccer where the coach needs to make nice with the parents. Do you think Ronaldo had much influence on whether Capello was hired at Real? I think you are really kidding yourself if you don't think that today's professional athletes don't have an influence on who the coaches are... whether it be professional or national teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I prefer the 2000 edition that actually won it under Osieck Yeah, don't we all. Unforunately it seems likely to me that under Simoes we would seen a team resembing the 2003 version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by maccaliam I don't understand how this can be seen as an issue considering he coached Iran, who I highly doubt would have been involved in any supposed pre-game Christian prayer sessions. If there was ever a concern about Simoes pushing unwanted Christian beliefs in the faces of his players, I believe this Iranian example proves that Simoes does not. Good point. Then again, maybe he had the common sense to not overstep his bounds. I was throwing it out there as another reason some people might not be so high on Simoes. When the ordeal went down someone who claimed to have spoken to someone on the search committee mentioned his fanaticism was a point of comedy with that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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