Trillium Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 A ) Given we all clearly understand the need for a new Football Federation in this country what model for election of its executive do you want. 1)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, one club one vote. 2)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, one vote per team registered at the over 12 level. 3)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, club vote weighted by dollars paid to National Assocation. B Should the provincial associations be repalced by directly affliated Districts with a minimum size of 25,000 players. if so do we allow the Districts to elect the National Federation executive ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Before commenting, I'd like to hear what Linford's thoughts were/are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 First and foremost, the definition of a club needs to be broadened. In the short and medium term, you will see more and more Elite youth academies pop up, who will field their own "rep" teams. Those academies, which are usually not affiliated to any one club and who do not offer recreational play, deserve a voice at the table as well. Professional Clubs, like Whitecaps, Impact, TFC, Lynx, etc... deserve a voice as well. I am not sure how their interests are represented on the provincial or national level currently, if at all. I would prefer the 1 vote / club option. Provinces with the largest number of clubs will then have greater influence, as should be the case. IMO, having Provincial Association replaced by Districts only means that there will be more power barons, not less, although each District rep would have tangibly less individual power than the Provincial directors do now. If I had to dream in technicolor, I would like to see the whole CSA restructured as follows: - The clubs vote to elect a board of 12 trustees to oversee the CSA. Voting takes place every 4 years (right after a World Cup ideally). - Each major region of Canada (BC, Alberta, the other 2 Praries Provinces, Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada) is guaranteed 1 trustee each. - The trustees are paid an honorarium, just like someone who serves on a public company's board of directors. - The Chairperson of this board is voted on by all clubs, not simply by the board itself. To qualify to be chairperson, you must be a member of the board. - The Chairperson would be up for election every 4 years as well. - The board HIRES a President/CEO to lead the association. This is not a volunteer position. This President/CEO hires whomever they wish to form an executive team. He/She is given a 4 year contracts, the same term as the board Chair. - The Board sets out the budget that is available to the President/CEO on an annual basis. After that they stay out of day to day affairs. Every important hiring is the decision of the President only. He or she does not require the approval of the board for virtually anything, so long as they remain within budget and there are no scandals. - The President/CEO is reviewed by the Board annually. If the person is doing a good job, they continue in the role. If there is dissatisfaction, they are terminated, even if that means paying a buyout. - An audited financial statement is produced and distributed for all to see how the CSA is doing financially. Could you imagine a CSA that actually is structured in a business like manner. It seems to work for the private sector. why not for soccer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Trillium A ) Given we all clearly understand the need for a new Football Federation in this country what model for election of its executive do you want. 1)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, one club one vote. 2)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, one vote per team registered at the over 12 level. 3)Direct voting by all clubs in Canada, club vote weighted by dollars paid to National Assocation. B Should the provincial associations be repalced by directly affliated Districts with a minimum size of 25,000 players. if so do we allow the Districts to elect the National Federation executive ? Question A: Direct voting somewhere in between choices 1 and 2. Question B: Yes, provincial assoc. should cease to exist No, do not allow districts to elect national executives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosehead Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Why a chairperson and 12 member board. 12 member board seems unrully, 6 would be better. Why should it be all clubs and not elite clubs. If its all clubs you get into the same dilemma problem of what does your organization represent recreational soccer or elite soccer. Why not have each player have a vote rather than the club so that the player feels directly involved in the process of his/her development. What about the fan? Should there be votes for the fans? If a fan pays a 50.00 an annual membership fee they should be entitled to a vote as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Moosehead Why a chairperson and 12 member board. 12 member board seems unrully, 6 would be better. Why should it be all clubs and not elite clubs. If its all clubs you get into the same dilemma problem of what does your organization represent recreational soccer or elite soccer. Why not have each player have a vote rather than the club so that the player feels directly involved in the process of his/her development. What about the fan? Should there be votes for the fans? If a fan pays a 50.00 an annual membership fee they should be entitled to a vote as well. All interesting suggestions. - I am not really married to a specific number of board positions. I don't really care if its 6, 8, 10, 12 or 20. More seats definitely makes it more difficult to manage but sometimes there are advantages to larger boards, especially if you don't want the board to be too influential on the affairs of the organization. - I think that all clubs deserve a vote, regardless of whether they are recreational only of if they have an elite component, because even the recereational clubs have a role to play in developing the game in this country. having each player vote would be wonderful but somewhat unrealistic. Canadians barely vote in municipal elections. to expect them to vote for a CSA board of directors is not realistic, especially since 3/4 of the registered players in Canada are under 14 (or something like that) - Fans deserve a vote because, in many ways, they are more knowledgeable than the people at the grassroots levels. How you manage a fan vote is beyond my simple mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Fan vote is easy they join the national fan association .... and pay something to do it with money to the federation and a vote choice to sit a director... My gut tells me we should go with one vote one registered team, the four year cycle is okay only ..and if all positions are re elected at once...if you do the slow change constitutions they encourage an old boys network... dynamic fully democratic change must be possible. I agree about paying the elected board...and the CEO split... but you will always have boards exerting influence ... or being played by the CEO... its tough call to build structure that avoids that pitfall if you have the wrong people in place...hence the need for rapid once every four years elections ( i wonder if thùt is too long ..but its good debating point ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by squid2 Before commenting, I'd like to hear what Linford's thoughts were/are. Are you looking for him to provide leadership or in someway be involved in an articulate and articulated position ? I suspect you will wait a long time, he was the power on the inside ...he will be emotionally done and after a few weeks will be on his way somewhere else ...to lick his wounds. I suspect he wont be coming back to the OSA, that he wont turn up at the OSA AGM to make a keynote address calling for revolution ....he does not have the Che gene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by VPjr First and foremost, the definition of a club needs to be broadened. In the short and medium term, you will see more and more Elite youth academies pop up, who will field their own "rep" teams. Those academies, which are usually not affiliated to any one club and who do not offer recreational play, deserve a voice at the table as well. Professional Clubs, like Whitecaps, Impact, TFC, Lynx, etc... deserve a voice as well. I am not sure how their interests are represented on the provincial or national level currently, if at all. I would prefer the 1 vote / club option. Provinces with the largest number of clubs will then have greater influence, as should be the case. IMO, having Provincial Association replaced by Districts only means that there will be more power barons, not less, although each District rep would have tangibly less individual power than the Provincial directors do now. If I had to dream in technicolor, I would like to see the whole CSA restructured as follows: - The clubs vote to elect a board of 12 trustees to oversee the CSA. Voting takes place every 4 years (right after a World Cup ideally). - Each major region of Canada (BC, Alberta, the other 2 Praries Provinces, Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada) is guaranteed 1 trustee each. - The trustees are paid an honorarium, just like someone who serves on a public company's board of directors. - The Chairperson of this board is voted on by all clubs, not simply by the board itself. To qualify to be chairperson, you must be a member of the board. - The Chairperson would be up for election every 4 years as well. - The board HIRES a President/CEO to lead the association. This is not a volunteer position. This President/CEO hires whomever they wish to form an executive team. He/She is given a 4 year contracts, the same term as the board Chair. - The Board sets out the budget that is available to the President/CEO on an annual basis. After that they stay out of day to day affairs. Every important hiring is the decision of the President only. He or she does not require the approval of the board for virtually anything, so long as they remain within budget and there are no scandals. - The President/CEO is reviewed by the Board annually. If the person is doing a good job, they continue in the role. If there is dissatisfaction, they are terminated, even if that means paying a buyout. - An audited financial statement is produced and distributed for all to see how the CSA is doing financially. Could you imagine a CSA that actually is structured in a business like manner. It seems to work for the private sector. why not for soccer? The pro clubs should be treated as any other club.. academies if the affliate and pay a fee get to be clubs..which is really what they are...or would be in any rational new national structure. One club one vote really wont fly clubs with ten thousand members will hate the single team senior mens club having an equal vote and frankly i have to agree with them the best way is teams registered... So if your club has fifty teams formed and registered during a year ...you get fifty votes. And yes i mean any kind of team ... Beach, Futsall or 11 aside teams formed to play any other soccer like game would not be sanctioned ...so no seven asides ...etc that are outside the FIFA definition of a offical FIFA game. I would suspect the new Federation would collect its fees based on team formation not player registratoin ... so you register a team directly to the National body to be sanctioned to play in a league, all leagues having to join the national body ...with no voting rights. Regional districts get to do discipline ... and referee training. Districts dont get to run player development only the National Federation does that directly. Clubs organize teams, enter leagues or play freelance games, build fields and give player training ... academy etc... The clubs clearly become the backbone of the Federation and do the hands on with players ... no provincial So all stars... I suspect the clubs will end up being defined by being : recreational only, competitive only , or non amateur. This so the developmental movement of player is clear from rec..to competitive to non amateur... i.e. teams playing in semi pro leagues and pro leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Folks, the only way to even start talking about this is to first get some examples of how other nations do it, and then compare. And then, if you find something you think will work, you have to see if it is legally viable for a national sport association in Canada. Meaning everything else is moot until we do that. I can give an inkling of what happens in Spain, but first it has to be said that the vast majority of countries have a national federation and a national league, and they are often working in parallel, often at odds, sometimes working together quite closely (Cups sponsored by the federation not the league, for example). That is not the case in Canada, there is no league that operates as a counterpoint to the CSA, no league president as powerful or more than the CSA president, no double source of income (league and federation sources, both with gates, fees, tv rights, government funding and sponsors of their own). I think one thing can be said about the Canadian structure: the provinces have an inordinate amount of power, I seriously doubt we could see such an imbalance anywhere in the world. In most national associations you have voting coming in determined blocks of votes representing players, clubs, coaches, refs and, if they exist, regional or provincial federations. But they vote in an executive, and the executive then has executive power, executing the budget and the mandated programs and activities. I seriously doubt anywhere in the world you have a soccer association/federation with a majority of voting members of the board representing regions or provinces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Folks, the only way to even start talking about this is to first get some examples of how other nations do it, and then compare. And then, if you find something you think will work, you have to see if it is legally viable for a national sport association in Canada. Meaning everything else is moot until we do that. I can give an inkling of what happens in Spain, but first it has to be said that the vast majority of countries have a national federation and a national league, and they are often working in parallel, often at odds, sometimes working together quite closely (Cups sponsored by the federation not the league, for example). That is not the case in Canada, there is no league that operates as a counterpoint to the CSA, no league president as powerful or more than the CSA president, no double source of income (league and federation sources, both with gates, fees, tv rights, government funding and sponsors of their own). I think one thing can be said about the Canadian structure: the provinces have an inordinate amount of power, I seriously doubt we could see such an imbalance anywhere in the world. In most national associations you have voting coming in determined blocks of votes representing players, clubs, coaches, refs and, if they exist, regional or provincial federations. But they vote in an executive, and the executive then has executive power, executing the budget and the mandated programs and activities. I seriously doubt anywhere in the world you have a soccer association/federation with a majority of voting members of the board representing regions or provinces. Jeffery..you really can do anything you want the incorporation of federation ... will be overseen in terms of legal entity status by Industry Canada..for reporting etc. and by Revenue Canada if non tax status is sought. It no use looking at other countries Federations when our problems are mostly unique due to our nature as confederation politically the most ... simalar for many reasons is Brasil with its state leagues and associations then a national C, B, and A round robin competitions. That said most soccer nations dont have clubs with such large volumes of registered players our structure is unique it requires a newly honed made in Canada solution in my humble opinion. Do people want to actually move forward or do we just want to find excuses to not do anything ... let some concrete ideas flow maybe the politicians in the provinces the soccer ones will start to see a new way... god know Colin had a change of heart from his OSA days...he called for the CSA to die... lets make sure as it does the vacum is not left unfilled or worse filled by a new crop of ill informed sport politicians... ( and note i said ill informed ) which is true of many in the provinces and at the district levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 http://www.hockeycanada.ca/6/8/4/3/index1.shtml By-Law 7, Voting, Page 51: http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.cfm/ci_id/25220/la_id/1/document/1/re_id/0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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