The Mo Situation - Should We Write A Letter

[Grizzly]

Will Dean McNulty write another article entitled "Mo's Handling of Canadian Player's Ridiculous" instead of "MLS citizenship rules 'ridiculous'"? After watching tonight's game I am really pissed off at Mo. He has hardly played the Canadians and bitched constantly about how poor and lazy they are. Yet today they performed in some cases equal to or and in others far better than the Americans and Brits they replaced. This despite most of them being among the lower paid players of TFC, (ie. maybe not the best quality of Canadians he could have got if he was not being cheap on Canadian talent) and many of them having very much game experience this year (they can only get better).

In tonight's game the only area that was lacking was finishing which was by and large the responsibility of the international starters with the exception of Lombardo (who was strong but seems to lack the scoring touch and in my opinion should start behind the strikers as offensive mid). Even saying this despite his lack of finishing Lombardo was our only dangerous striker tonight. The backline was solid and the crosses were well delivered. Ah the irony of LA starting two Canadians who also performed well with Jazic being the strongest player in LA's backline (and much better than his international counterpart Xavier). Yet Mo claims there are not enough good Canadians for him to sign.

Stama also showed he is a solid keeper (seemed more confident and assertive than Sutton) even though he didn't have many shots on him with the majority Canadian defence in front of him. At the very least he should have been signed/loaned by Mo at the beginning of the season as Sutton's competition/backup. Did any other MLS team start the season without a serious backup keeper?

I am not calling for Mo to be fired. He has been decent so far, maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10. Yet he has also made a significant number of errors. While I can accept a certain number of errors I can not accept it when the coach at the same time is blaming everyone else unjustly for mistakes of his own making. I really doubt the media on its own is going to take Mo to task for his comments. Thus I feel it is well within our mandate to make our feelings known both as Canada team supporters and a significant portion of the hardcore TFC supporters. If Mo wants to be an outspoken straight shooter then fine and good. But we and every other fan has as much right to be as outspoken and straight shooting about the mistakes he has made and our opinion about some of the comments he has made. MLSE and Mo should hear our opinion and know that the Canadian national team supporters are a force to be reckoned with.

Thus, I would like the Voyageurs to write another letter that states our opinion of the committment we expect both TFC and Mo to make to Canadian players, an analysis of Mo's performance so far (do not criticize if you are unwilling to be criticized in turn) and suggestions as to what he and TFC could do better in the future. We have heard his opinion frequently enough and it is now time he heard ours. I appreciate any feedback from other Voyageurs on this idea.

[BrennanFan]

The idea is valid, but we have to rely on facts. Position for position, Mo's decisions have not been totally baseless.

Mo's first choice team, i think, is:

Dichio Cunningham

Welsh Robinson Edu Obrien

Dunivant Brennan Marshall Wynne

The only guy who sucks in this lineup is Welsh. With Brennan being a defender now (probably his best spot at this stage in his career), there is no Canadian replacement aside from Canizalez who is really just a sub. Mo should play Canizalez more as a sub, but this is not a huge mistake, I dont think Canizalez has many MLS goals in him.

Where does Poz fit in? Left back maybe? Mo sees him as a Midfielder, and Im ok with that.

Should Braz really play over Wynne? I think so, but i understand if Mo doesnt. Wynne is pretty good.

Reda? Maybe he should play in the middle with Brennan replacing Dunivant on the left, but Mo wants Brennan, one of his best players, in the middle. Thats a valid decision. Boyens over Reda? I dont think so, but again, Boyens is a stud and may be an allstar one day, so i understand Mo's thinking. Marshall over Reda?, another close one.

as for the criticism that Mo didnt get more quality canadians, guys like Gerba, Nakajima, Hastings, Occean, Peters, Johnson would be taking significant pay-cuts to play for TFC, so they would be difficult to bring home.

What I would ideally like to see is TFC not so much bringing guys home, but just providing more canadian options. Giving guys who maybe are fringe MLS players a place to play and build their skills. Guys like Andres Arango, Marcina, Asante, Dodds from the Lynx, Gervais, Rosenlund, as well as trying to get deRo, Serioux or Harmse. Now that would have been cool. A Canadian coach would have done more.

I dont know Grizz. Mo is a bastard for criticizing players like he does, but thats his way of motivating. And today the guys he called out brought their A games, so maybe he's onto something. However, a general statement about TFC being more committed to Canadian player development would be something worth supporting.

[Grizzly]

I could accept your points if Mo wasn't unfairly criticizing Canadian players in the media and calling for the MLS to change its import rule. I think this is the last thing Canadian soccer needs as far as the general public's perception and I think if anything we need stronger import rules (and with that a coach who knows how to work with them). It was only one game and at that against a poor team. Yet some of the players who have hardly played showed themselves as good as the more expensive foreign players who always play and a few them seemed to be better.

Mo has every right to play who he wants. Yet if his selections don't perform he has to take responsibility for it and not blame others, particularly a certain group of players. Can you imagine the outcry if he said my black players are technically inferior and lazy? There is no reason he should be able to say this about the Canadians especially since today's performance did not back up his opinion. Coaching decisions are coaching decisions but shooting your mouth off is another matter entirely.

I strongly dispute that these comments were a motivating technique. Were it a motivating technique he would single out certain underperforming players regardless of ethnic background and particularly those players who were playing and not those who he has seldom played. I think these comments mostly show the prejuidices that Mo has. In fact, the one Canadian player he seems to like is probably due to his playing in England previously. I also don't think the Canadians you mention would be taking pay cuts if Mo was willing to pay them what he is paying Brennan let alone Welsh and Robinson.

As much as we criticize the CSA I think they are in a politically difficult situation to criticize Mo. It is really the role of the media to do this but I doubt we have enough knowledgeable and brave reporters to challenge Mo on this point. Thus, I think there is a lack of a body that is able to challenge Mo on his comments and that is where we fill the gap in my opinion. As you said Mo is entitled to sign and play who he wants but must also accept responsibility for the results. When he decides to shoot his mouth off and shift responsibility to others for his mistakes then he opens himself up to legitimate criticism. I think if his comments are indicative of the way Canadian MLS teams will be managed in the future that this is a bad omen for Canadian soccer. I think we have to draw a line in the sand and say this is not acceptable behaviour as a Canadian soccer coach. We have been quiet too long about similar issues and it is time we start speaking our mind.

[Canuck Oranje]

First off, I am not sure about the idea of writing a letter. My view is that the rules are given and I doubt that changing them where Americans and Canadians are treated equally will do much differently in a positive or negative way for Canadian soccer.

However, I do feel Mo has a distorted view on talent and ability. The fact that it seems the only time he has gone outside the UK or MLS to find a player was when he was forced to find a Canadian would suggest that he does not consider other leagues when trying to find players. It is also a well known fact in soccer circles that UK-based professionals get paid more for their relative talent than anywhere in the world. Choosing to sign UK-based players (other than Canadians playing there) means you are likely overpaying relative to the rest of the world. If Mo overpays (relative to the rest of the world) for UK talent, it also means that he has less budget available to bring home Canadians (who would more likely be predisposed to accepting a salary discount to play at home). Players like Andre Hainault, Josh Simpson, and Richard Hastings, I doubt, are making the salary of Carl Robinson in Europe and probably closer to what Brennan is making in the MLS.

I would also encourage those who disagree to take a look at MLS rosters and identify former UK-based British players currently playing in the MLS. From my scan, it seems that Toronto FC is only team that is actively signing UK-based players. I am not opposed to signing British players. I am opposed to paying more for their talent than you would have to pay if you got that talent from elsewhere. That includes talented Canadian players playing in other leagues around the world.

[Gian-Luca]

I think if Mo is serious about wanting rule changes then a letter would be warranted. But Jeffrey S. was reporting that MLSE told him that Mo was misquoted on that point, so it's difficult to tell if he is, and I'm not sure a letter is warranted if Mo is just whining. Given the signing of Stamatopoulos & how quickly it happened after they decided to get another keeper, I don't think Mo has much of a leg to stand on with respect to demanding rule changes & I think it would be very poor for him to take a job knowing what the roster requirements were & then try to change them mid-way through to suit his own preferences.

I think writing a letter to Dean McNulty or other members of the media that try to promote Mo's cause (not just reporting what he says, but agreeing with them) would be a good thing to do, should it happen again. I won't be doing so this week as I'm out at a cottage until Friday, so best of luck to whatever you guys decide.

[amacpher]

Yes, clearly us arm-chair fans know more than Mo.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Yes, clearly us arm-chair fans know more than Mo.

When did you become Richard?

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Yes, clearly us arm-chair fans know more than Mo.

I know you intended this to be a sarcastic remark, but Mo's managing resume to date would suggest the a more literal interpretation is correct.

[BrennanFan]

I guess some criticisms could include the following, especially taking into account the stated role of TFC in developing Canadian soccer:

- Mo did not adequately scout Canadian players (we dont know this for sure)

- Mo underpaid Canadian players compared to the rest of the roster

- Mo overpaid for UK players who have proved to be only average, instead of signing Canadians in the same price range

- Mo undermined the Canadian players he did get with the equal if not lesser players like Welsh, Wynne and Marshall

- Mo has never given a real chance to either Reda or Braz

- Mo has harshly criticized these players without giving them a chance

- Mo wants the Canadian player quota removed

A big drawback to our argument would be the signing of all the U20s to the reserves, this should be recognized but framed as not enough, and the less than minimum wage salaries given to these players should also be criticized.

[putkaputka]

BrennanFan -- check, check , check, and check, and with respect to the U20s reserves, we all saw how terribly they performed at the u20, and despite everything that Dale did wrong, a substantial part of the the blame ought to fall back at the club level where you have to wonder how these plyaers were being developed.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by putkaputka

BrennanFan -- check, check , check, and check, and with respect to the U20s reserves, we all saw how terribly they performed at the u20, and despite everything that Dale did wrong, a substantial part of the the blame ought to fall back at the club level where you have to wonder how these plyaers were being developed.

I agree with Brennan Fan's points and they are pretty much the ones I would make. However, I don't think we can blame TFC for the performance of their U-20 players. Most of these players had only been with TFC for a couple of months before the tournament so any lack of development would be the responsibility of their previous training environment.

[jpg75]

Mo was asked how the players he called out last week responded and he had nothing but praise for Braz and Reda. He felt they stepped it up and that the team as a whole responded well last night and they deserved to win.

[jpg75]

Also, Don Garber was asked during halftime whether the rules would be changed vis-a-vis the Canadian quota and he said the rules would be reviewed based on merit and not because TFC were having a tough time with injuries.

He also said he's spoken to prospective ownership groups in Vancouver and Montreal. The league is set to expand to a target of 16 teams by 2010 and 18 teams by 2012.

[RJB]

Our job as Voyageurs is to support and promote Canadian talent for the betterment of the National Team. I certainly feel that this is an issue that we could be vocal on. It's tough however, because we don't want to be critical of Mo's team selection(that's his job, not ours), but we would be doing that very thing.

[putkaputka]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

Our job as Voyageurs is to support and promote Canadian talent for the betterment of the National Team. I certainly feel that this is an issue that we could be vocal on. It's tough however, because we don't want to be critical of Mo's team selection(that's his job, not ours), but we would be doing that very thing.

YEs, and we also have to end apartheid, for one. And slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

It's tough however...

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

I guess some criticisms could include the following, especially taking into account the stated role of TFC in developing Canadian soccer:

- Mo did not adequately scout Canadian players (we dont know this for sure)

- Mo underpaid Canadian players compared to the rest of the roster

- Mo overpaid for UK players who have proved to be only average, instead of signing Canadians in the same price range

- Mo undermined the Canadian players he did get with the equal if not lesser players like Welsh, Wynne and Marshall

- Mo has never given a real chance to either Reda or Braz

- Mo has harshly criticized these players without giving them a chance

- Mo wants the Canadian player quota removed

A big drawback to our argument would be the signing of all the U20s to the reserves, this should be recognized but framed as not enough, and the less than minimum wage salaries given to these players should also be criticized.

The Canadians who got to play yesterday were not bad but dont discount how absolutely horrible the Galaxy played on Sunday. They were as bad as TFC was the week before. The Canadians hustled (Poz and Lombardo impressed me most), especially in the first half. The finishing just wasn't there.

I would rather have Wynne back patrolling the right side than Braz anyday. You can't teach Speed and Wynne is quicker than Braz even if he had 1 leg tied to the other.

I will judge Mo's ability to identify talent after year 2. I think there are very few Canadians on this roster that deserve to have their spots on the roster guaranteed for 2008 (Brennan, Sutton/Stama, Lombardo, Pozniak). I could care less about any of the other Canadians on the senior roster. They are not important to the future of the MNT so why keep around just because they are Canadian (unless he's forced to in order to meet quota)? I would rather see young guys like Joey Melo or Lumley on the senior roster and getting the chance to develop than let Canizalez, Braz or Reda keep the bench warm. The Canadian quota needs to be reduced or the salary cap needs to be increased. Otherwise, TFC will always be a team cursed with minimal bench depth because we can't afford to bring in the better Canadian talent playing abroad and there isn't enough young talent to make an immediate contribution.

Also, while I think its sad that MLS mandates such low salaries for developmental players, its better than playing for gas money. These young players get to train in a professional environment, not some half arsed NTC. Mo might be a tough coach and may not respect Canadian players the way we want him to but maybe he's been around the game long enough to know what is too much. Last I checked, I dont think there are too many ex-internationals/ex-Celtic/ex-Rangers players posting on this forum. Mo has just a wee bit more experience than any of us, me-thinks. The fact of the matter is that Canadian kids are coddled in every facet of life. If these boys want a professional career, its better to get their butts kicked early. It will prepare them for the next level of intensity that they will face if they ever head to Europe or graduate to TFC's senior squad.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

I would rather have Wynne back patrolling the right side than Braz anyday. You can't teach Speed and Wynne is quicker than Braz even if he had 1 leg tied to the other.

Wynne is fast, sure, but he often seems to forget what position he is supposed to be playing.

[Canuck Oranje]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Mo might be a tough coach and may not respect Canadian players the way we want him to but maybe he's been around the game long enough to know what is too much. Last I checked, I dont think there are too many ex-internationals/ex-Celtic/ex-Rangers players posting on this forum. Mo has just a wee bit more experience than any of us, me-thinks. The fact of the matter is that Canadian kids are coddled in every facet of life. If these boys want a professional career, its better to get their butts kicked early. It will prepare them for the next level of intensity that they will face if they ever head to Europe or graduate to TFC's senior squad.

Last time I checked, it wasn't a requirement to be an international, ex-international or pro or ex-pro player to have an opinion on this forum.

My main point is not an opinion though. Toronto FC is the only MLS team that has actively recruited players in the UK in recent years. The MLS rosters show that clearly. The reason for that is that the UK player market is the most expensive market in the world for a given talent level. That is not good management of a budget and has nothing to do with how well one once played the game.

I have no problems with being tough on young players if it produces results. If it doesn't, I haven't got any problems with fans criticizing the Coach. And if it takes two years of mediocre results before criticism is warranted, we are far more tolerant than any Celtic or Rangers fan would be.

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Wynne is fast, sure, but he often seems to forget what position he is supposed to be playing.

no you cant teach speed but you also cant teach toughness, and braz brings the pain, just ask landon. and you can teach positioning and crossing, but i guess wynne was trying out for the track team on those particular days. id take braz over wynne any day, and he needs to be playing bc who is going to play in WCQ when stalteri throws another water bottle at the ref? i trust braz more than ledgerwood anyway.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

- Mo undermined the Canadian players he did get with the equal if not lesser players like Welsh, Wynne and Marshall

You obviously have not seen Wynne play.

[john tv]

There is no way you can influence or tell Mo anything at all. You have to know these Scots.

Good luck.

I guess the only thing that will help in the future is his exposure to Canadian soccer players. He is still quite new in this market and I am sure he has these preconceived ideas. Just give him time.Nothing will change him any other way.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

Last time I checked, it wasn't a requirement to be an international, ex-international or pro or ex-pro player to have an opinion on this forum.

My main point is not an opinion though. Toronto FC is the only MLS team that has actively recruited players in the UK in recent years. The MLS rosters show that clearly. The reason for that is that the UK player market is the most expensive market in the world for a given talent level. That is not good management of a budget and has nothing to do with how well one once played the game.

I have no problems with being tough on young players if it produces results. If it doesn't, I haven't got any problems with fans criticizing the Coach. And if it takes two years of mediocre results before criticism is warranted, we are far more tolerant than any Celtic or Rangers fan would be.

I have no problem with you expressing an opinion...forums are democratic. Your opinion is as valid as mine. My point is that someone who has lived and breathed the game is going to earn my respect and I'm willing to be patient to see his vision through. I'm not one to jump down someone's throat after less than 12 months. It's been an adequate season on the field and a great season in the stands thus far. I will give Mo 1 more full season to build this team. If the team continues to move in the right direction, I'll be happy. If not, then we need to go in a different direction.

I do agree with you that Latino players can be had less expensively and I am sure 1 or 2 South Americans with the proper skill set can help this team tremendously, and at a better price than a UK based player.