U20 WC shows problems facing Cda - Canoe.ca

[Free kick]

FIFA U-20 World Cup shows problems facing Canada as soccer nation

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2007/07/20/4355185-cp.html

By PAUL JAMES

(CP) - Some years back, the vagabond yet extremely successful Bora Milutinovic was asked whether he would be interested in coaching Canada. When he answered an emphatic no, he was asked why.

His simple answer was Canada is "a mission impossible."

While I fundamentally disagree with his assertion, at the same time I understand his perspective. A minuscule professional soccer system, very limited funds, very limited coaching development, a politically fragmented landscape, few high-level coaching opportunities and no clear direction as to where you are going as a soccer nation.

Yet if you are a national team coach for Canada, you are expected by all and sundry to qualify for world championships, win at world championships, produce world-class players, play a modern attractive style of play, cater to players' wishes just in case they disagree with the approach and all this, for meagre compensation.

Hmmm, on second thought, maybe I should agree with Milutinovic's claim.

Watching the recent performances of our team at the FIFA U-20 World Cup (exiting the tournament after three straight losses and without a goal to its credit) and then reading the various critiques and interpretations of why we were so poor and how good we should be, it in many ways highlights how really immature and naive our soccer industry is in Canada.

Unrealistic expectations, a misunderstanding of the level of play, and an ignorance of the true purpose of national youth teams has unfortunately blinded people of the true realities.

As much as we get excited about our participation rates, our women's program, our ability to host tournaments and even the invention of Toronto FC, it is clear when compared to our competitors on the world stage that we are still far behind - we simply do not have the soccer culture or system capable of regularly producing internationally competitive players.

The conclusion we should take from this particular under-20 group is straightforward and uncomplicated. The majority of players were not good enough to effectively compete on the world stage beyond what they displayed. Relative to the competition, our passing and first touch was collectively poor; the tactical behaviour of players was naive (goals conceded against Congo are perfect examples); physically some players have unrealistic fitness standards and psychologically, as a team, they could not handle the pressure - a result of a lack of experience and confidence.

It appears everyone is looking for answers, along the way blaming the coach, the players, and the Canadian Soccer Association. Yet the reality again is quite simple.

Early exposure to the day-to-day demands of training and competing in a legitimate professional soccer environment have been missing from the majority of our current players.

In other parts of the world - and for a few Canadian players - this kind of environment prepares them over a 10-year period. It fuels the motivation to train properly, it corrects technical/tactical deficiencies, sets realistic physical standards and, through tough competition, psychologically prepares players for the rigours of professional and international competition.

While it is too early to be retrospective with this particular group of players, five years on it is certainly possible with the 2001 Canadian squad that competed in Argentina.

Just compare the Brazilian and Canadian teams who met in a first-round game, with Brazil winning 2-0.

While all the Brazilian players were stationed at significant professional levels prior to the tournament, our own squad included a few minor-level university players, some unattached players (without clubs) playing nowhere (including a very young Atiba Hutchinson) and a spattering of players training at varying professional levels.

Meanwhile the Brazilian squad included, to name a few, Edu, Eduardo, Julio Baptiste, Maicon, Adriano, and Kaka - today all footballing stars of Europe. Keeping in mind this Brazilian team were knocked out at the quarter-final stage clearly gives perspective as to the true standard of play at the tournament.

From the 2001 Canadian squad, most players are not playing the game at any significant level today and in some instances not playing the game at all.

Before the tournament itself, some people suggested we should be winning our group. In hindsight, clearly a delusional assessment.

Let's review our history of this tournament with some sobering statistics: our under-20 teams have competed in seven of the 16 tournaments. In 27 games played, the teams have won four, tied five and lost 18.

Remarkably at the under-17 level, it is even more revealing. Having only qualified for four world tournaments out of a possible 11, Canada has never earned a single point. No wins, no ties. Three goals have been scored, 42 conceded.

In 1993, a Canadian team that included Paul Stalteri, Jim Brennan, Jeff Clarke and Jason Bent lost all three games, scored no goals and conceded 18.

We really need no more evidence to suggest that the level of play at this stage is beyond us. Until we accept this fact and face the reality that without improving our professional and collegiate soccer systems here in Canada, we will be limited in our progress.

While the addition of TFC is a move in the right direction, it is not enough without expansion into Vancouver and Montreal and a willingness by the clubs to be a part of the Canadian development process.

In the meantime, we should view qualifying for world youth soccer championships as significant successes, and then appearances at these events as opportunities to expose our players to the realities of international soccer, knowing that a few will one day have the opportunity to play at the senior World Cup level.

And in regards to coach Dale Mitchell, one should keep in mind that he was at the helm for two of the four wins we have attained at this level.

[strobe_z]

Just outta curiosity... who was the coach of the aforementioned 2001 team?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

most players are not playing the game at any significant level today and in some instances not playing the game at all.

That part worth repeating

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by strobe_z

Just outta curiosity... who was the coach of the aforementioned 2001 team?

Well, that was the writer of the article of course. But it still doesn't mean he is necessarily wrong

[ray]

Apparently we are wrong to have any expectations of our national teams. Canada just doesn't have the resources, coaching, talent, development oportunities, etc.. Perhaps we should just give up.

PJ does make his points but the CSA (as shown from the recent MNT coaching situation) has not been run so well that they can be absolved of any and all blame.

[An Observer]

I pretty much agree with alot of what Paul James says. Everyone blames the CSA for the lack of development of the players, proper training, good preperation, poor choice of coaches, etc. I blame them for lack of the development of a tiered professional structure in this country. Without that, all the rest is a waste of time.

I have said this before and I will said again. The CSA exec should spend a huge percentage of its time identifying potential owners for MLS and USL sides, lobbying municipal officials to support professional soccer in their communities by upgrading facilities, banging heads together at the provincial level to stamp out politics that holds the game back, and working on creating an appropriate pyramid for soccer in this country (whether or not that leverages greatly on the US system).

For example, they should have a goal to get 3 sides in the MLS by 2012 and they should actively support Kerfoot or the Canucks (or both in Vancouver); and Saputo and/or the Canadians in Montreal. But beyond that they should be identifying ownership groups in Victoria, Edmonton, Calgary, Sask, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Hamilton, Quebec City, Halifax to get them lined up for USL franchises; as well as meeting city, university or private officials that can fund stadiums in those locals. They should have goals for how many cities they want in that league by certain deadlines that meet minimum criteria. They should have a vision for a feeder system of the CSL in Ontario/Quebec; and a PCSL in BC, and perhaps a pan-Prairies league, and a maritime league backed up by local club structures. And they should have realistic timelines for these goals, and the Exec should be accountable.

Of course, the technical development of players is important. And as part of this system, one needs to think about how players are developed in this country. But without a professional structure, its an absolute waste of time if we ever think we will develop into a soccer nation on par with even a Sweden, or a Norway.

Finally, I also think that as much as I want our U20s and U17s to win, that is not important. The most important thing is to develop. So for example when our players were pressed on the ball by Chile at the back, I would much rather they attempt to pass it amongst themselves even if they give it away and Chile scores on a break away. They need to learn to keep possession when so pressured. To boot it downfield is simply a waste of development.

[Gian-Luca]

I also largley agree with what James says, although I find the article a bit cheeky on the 2001 aspect given that he was the coach and that a 2-0 loss to Brazil in the third game wasn't really the problem for that team, it was coming out and losing to Iraq 3-0 by half time (with another shot off the cross-bar & other good chances missed) of the very first game, much of which had to do with poor tactics & coaching decisions - ie. taking a midfield general like De Guzman out of midfield & playing him as a striker while Rob Friend sat on the bench & Ali Gerba (then Ngon) was cut from the team altogether after starting all the qualifiers. In other words, poor coaching can make a difference. And you can not make the same argument that those U20 players on Iraq have gone on to the same level that Brazil's team and I'd be surprised if as many of them have done as well as a lot of the Canadian players on that team.

Other than that however, I agree that the main problem at proceeding far at the World Cup level is an overall lack of talent. Both Mitchell & James have pointed out that we traditionally haven't done much at this tourney, and I always took the view that when Mitchell mentioned that the lack of talent for the current U20 team was the same case as all of the previous U20 teams, that what he really was doing was pointing the finger at the system rather than blaming the players (otherwise why make the comment about how we have historically fared at the tourney) as some have suggested.

[Gian-Luca]

I also largley agree with what James says, although I find the article a bit cheeky on the 2001 aspect given that he was the coach and that a 2-0 loss to Brazil in the third game wasn't really the problem for that team, it was coming out and losing to Iraq 3-0 by half time (with another shot off the cross-bar & other good chances missed) of the very first game, much of which had to do with poor tactics & coaching decisions - ie. taking a midfield general like De Guzman out of midfield & playing him as a striker while Rob Friend sat on the bench & Ali Gerba (then Ngon) was cut from the team altogether after starting all the qualifiers. In other words, poor coaching can make a difference. And you can not make the same argument that those U20 players on Iraq have gone on to the same level that Brazil's team and I'd be surprised if as many of them have done as well as a lot of the Canadian players on that team.

Other than that however, I agree that the main problem at proceeding far at the World Cup level is an overall lack of talent. Both Mitchell & James have pointed out that we traditionally haven't done much at this tourney, and I always took the view that when Mitchell mentioned that the lack of talent for the current U20 team was the same case as all of the previous U20 teams, that what he really was doing was pointing the finger at the system rather than blaming the players (otherwise why make the comment about how we have historically fared at the tourney) as some have suggested.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

That part worth repeating

Just to see where everybody is nowadays.....

De Guzman, Nsaliwa, Pozniak, Hutchinson, Hume, Friend, Gerba, and Klukowski are all playing regularly at a significant level (in some case, the highest level possible). That's 8. Actually getting 8 players from an U20 team into regular senior team rank is pretty darn good.

Those playing at a lower level or at a significant level but not regularly would include Oppong, Canizalez, Braz, Justin Thompson (that's going on the assumption we are not considering USL Div. 1 "significant"), Terry Dunfield, Wojtek Zarzycki & Chris Williams. So probably 7 in that category.

Those who don' appear to be playing anywhere (and correct me if I'm wrong): Belotte, Mieuleman, Bernard Oussa (pulled off the field against Iraq after about 20 minutes & never seen or heard from again, unfortunately), Borsellino, Miles O'Connor, Joey Todaro. 5 in that category, unless I've missed someone).

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Just to see where everybody is nowadays.....

De Guzman, Nsaliwa, Pozniak, Hutchinson, Hume, Friend, Gerba, and Klukowski are all playing regularly at a significant level (in some case, the highest level possible). That's 8. Actually getting 8 players from an U20 team into regular senior team rank is pretty darn good.

Those playing at a lower level or at a significant level but not regularly would include Oppong, Canizalez, Braz, Justin Thompson (that's going on the assumption we are not considering USL Div. 1 "significant"), Terry Dunfield, Wojtek Zarzycki & Chris Williams. So probably 7 in that category.

Those who don' appear to be playing anywhere (and correct me if I'm wrong): Belotte, Mieuleman, Bernard Oussa (pulled off the field against Iraq after about 20 minutes & never seen or heard from again, unfortunately), Borsellino, Miles O'Connor, Joey Todaro. 5 in that category, unless I've missed someone).

FYI

I did not exactly capture the quote that I wanted when I did the cut and pasted. the quote that I responded to had nothing to do do with the 2001 U20. Rather it was a general statement about wher our players are playing. I I have deleted the first 4-5 words

[putkaputka]

No talent? –Sorry, that is B.S, covering up the fact that we were thoroughly out-coached. You can compare this self-righteous rants of how talentless we are with the Congo coach who basically went from village to village in a worn-torn country, took 50 “Endugos” -- who prolly some nice family from Chatham, Ontario is sponsoring somewhere and maybe Jack Nickolson was reading their letters -- coached them for a few years, and yet they beat us.

Tell me one guy from any team that has scored a goal on Man U in an EPL game! Sorry, don’t buy we were the most talentless team. Far from it, it was just that the players stepped out unmotivated, scared, and without confidence.

[An Observer]

Here is where the German side are currently

STARKE Tom 03-18-1981 Goalkeeper MSV Duisburg (Bundesliga 2)

2 PREUSS Christoph 07-04-1981 Defender Eintracht Frankfurt (Bundesliga 1)

3 FICKERT Christian 02-10-1981 Defender SV 1916 Sandhausen (Regional South)

4 LAPACZINSKI Denis 09-26-1981 Defender TSG Hoffenheim (Bundesliga 2)

5 ZEPEK Michael 01-19-1981 Defender SV Elversberg (Regional South)

6 GEMITI Giuseppe 05-03-1981 Midfielder Udinese (Seria A, Italy)

7 DOGAN Huzeyfe 01-01-1981 Forward unattached, recently released by Paderborn (Bundesliga 2)

8 BALITSCH Hanno 01-02-1981 Midfielder Hannover 96 (Bundesliga 1)

9 AUER Benjamin 01-11-1981 Forward VfL Bochum (Bundesliga 1)

10 TEBER Selim 03-07-1981 Midfielder TSG Hoffenheim (Bundesliga 2)

11 BURKHARDT Thorsten 05-21-1981 Forward SpVgg Greuther Fürth (Bundesliga 2)

12 MIKOLAJCZAK Christian 05-15-1981 Midfielder FSV Frankfurt (Regional South)

13 JONES Jermaine 11-03-1981 Forward FC Schalke 04 (Bundesliga 1)

14 TIFFERT Christian 02-18-1982 Forward MSV Duisburg (Bundesliga 2)

15 KLING Stephan 03-22-1981 Defender 1. FC Saarbrücken (Regional South)

16 HINKEL Andreas 03-26-1982 Defender FC Sevilla (La Liga, Spain)

17 JUNGNICKEL Lars 08-31-1981 Forward Dynamo Dresden (Regional North)

18 SCHLOSSER Jan 09-27-1982 Goalkeeper Bayern Munich (Bundesliga 1), although he doesn't seem to have played.

What is interesting is that very few have made much of impact and only a handful are playing regularly at the top level. Now some may take this as the fact that James is wrong. In my mind, it just proves the fact that we need a professional structure as only a tiny few of U20s on the national team will develop into top rate professionals. If there is not another layer of players underneath that in professional systems, than you lack the numbers to fill the gaps when some youth internationals fall away.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

What is interesting is that very few have made much of impact and only a handful are playing regularly at the top level. Now some may take this as the fact that James is wrong. In my mind, it just proves the fact that we need a professional structure as only a tiny few of U20s on the national team will develop into top rate professionals. If there is not another layer of players underneath that in professional systems, than you lack the numbers to fill the gaps when some youth internationals fall away.

Yes I would agree with that. My only point with the 2001 team is that it shows that even a very unsuccessful U20 team at the World Cup can produce a significant number of players that will help Canada at the World Cup level. There were a number of people on this board & others that have suggested the future of Canadian soccer is bleak because the players this U20 are unlikely to be of any help to the national team in years to come. Which I think is nonsense.

[Marc]

Pieter Meulemann:

http://www.milestonesdurhamregion.com/notice.php?nid=22946&category=Wedding

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by putkaputka

No talent? –Sorry, that is B.S, covering up the fact that we were thoroughly out-coached. You can compare this self-righteous rants of how talentless we are with the Congo coach who basically went from village to village in a worn-torn country, took 50 “Endugos” -- who prolly some nice family from Chatham, Ontario is sponsoring somewhere and maybe Jack Nickolson was reading their letters -- coached them for a few years, and yet they beat us.

Tell me one guy from any team that has scored a goal on Man U in an EPL game! Sorry, don’t buy we were the most talentless team. Far from it, it was just that the players stepped out unmotivated, scared, and without confidence.

Nope. I no longer buy the constant blame the coaches line. There was a time and place for that and I did agree with it often in the past. But not any more. This U20 tourny and the last one, proved it. its the basic skills.

TFC has a hard time finding Canadian offensive talent to fill out their roster to the extend that they needed some rules exemptions in regards to the status of canadians as far as league rules. Most, if not all, of the USL players in canada playing offensive roles are foreigners. So are you going to blame those coaches as well?

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I pretty much agree with alot of what Paul James says. Everyone blames the CSA for the lack of development of the players, proper training, good preperation, poor choice of coaches, etc. I blame them for lack of the development of a tiered professional structure in this country. Without that, all the rest is a waste of time.

Exactly, and we can blame them for that, as they abadoned the CSL in 1992, opting for the easy-out, and merging our strongest teams with the APSL.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Nope. I no longer buy the constant blame the coaches line. There was a time and place for that and I did agree with it often in the past. But not any more. This U20 tourny and the last one, proved it. its the basic skills.

TFC has a hard time finding Canadian offensive talent to fill out their roster to the extend that they needed some rules exemptions in regards to the status of canadians as far as league rules. Most, if not all, of the USL players in canada playing offensive roles are foreigners. So are you going to blame those coaches as well?

There is certainly talent issues, but canadian coaches are not absolved either: from the grassroots level right up to the Head Coach. Mitchell was still wanting in this tournament talent aside.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by An Observer

I have said this before and I will said again. The CSA exec should spend a huge percentage of its time identifying potential owners for MLS and USL sides

I think it is now the case that the potential MLS owners have been identified, unless you are talking about going past 3 MLS teams. I think that won't happen for some time, and the immediate focus should be to identify owners for USL sides, especially as the USL might be in trouble as a league if it loses to of its stronger franchises in Montreal & Vancouver without any teams in other good soccer markets to replace them. And there is a possibility that Seattle and/or Portland might "move up" to MLS as well.

[Winnipeg Fury]

And that was exactly what Kevan Pipe stated in the interview. The pyramid of professional development only makes sense with MLS, if we have enough USL sides producing Canadian talent.

And we need approximately 3 USL First Division sides to produce the Canadian talent for one MLS side.

[An Observer]

I agree that it seems that MLS ownership has been identified in Vancouver and Montreal. This being said, the CSA should continue to expend effort on behalf of these groups. The CSA can help with local authorities, provide logistics support, keep the spotlight on Canadian expansion with MLS executives and the media, reiterate in the US that a strong Canada is good for US soccer as well, etc. They need a blueprint and need to stick with it over the next 3 to 4 years.

That being said, I completely agree that USL First Divsion sides need to be developed as a matter of urgency. For example, you see the whitecaps just announcing their residency program. We need 6 to 10 USL first division sides around the country with owners with deep pockets who would run residency and Super Y league programs, and have good stadiums of 8 to 10k. Imagine if Canada had 3 MLS sides, 8 USL first division sides, all with 20 kids in a residency programs (some spread around leagues in Europe). That would give us about 200 players to choose from for our U20 side, and about 50 prospects a year coming through for national team considerartion. It also provides a great amount of competition for development between all these programs. Whilst I believe that we should have some national standards, and at the national team level encourage a style of play, the real development would be done by the club sides as in Europe. The best programs will rise to the top. That is why all the crap about improving coaching and technical standards is fine, but the best way to do that is to create a competitive pyramid based structure (and the development will then largely take care of itself).

[putkaputka]

I agree that it seems that MLS ownership has been identified in Vancouver and Montreal. This being said, the CSA should continue to expend effort on behalf of these groups. The CSA can help with local authorities, provide logistics support, keep the spotlight on Canadian expansion with MLS executives and the media, reiterate in the US that a strong Canada is good for US soccer as well, etc. They need a blueprint and need to stick with it over the next 3 to 4 years.

That being said, I completely agree that USL First Divsion sides need to be developed as a matter of urgency. For example, you see the whitecaps just announcing their residency program. We need 6 to 10 USL first division sides around the country with owners with deep pockets who would run residency and Super Y league programs, and have good stadiums of 8 to 10k. Imagine if Canada had 3 MLS sides, 8 USL first division sides, all with 20 kids in a residency programs (some spread around leagues in Europe). That would give us about 200 players to choose from for our U20 side, and about 50 prospects a year coming through for national team considerartion. It also provides a great amount of competition for development between all these programs. Whilst I believe that we should have some national standards, and at the national team level encourage a style of play, the real development would be done by the club sides as in Europe. The best programs will rise to the top. That is why all the crap about improving coaching and technical standards is fine, but the best way to do that is to create a competitive pyramid based structure (and the development will then largely take care of itself).

that's a good vision. I think the Universities have to step up with sports scholarships not only for soccer but for all sports.

[whyalla63]

I'm sick of Canadian coaches always saying the players aren't good enough while letting themselves conveniently off the hook for tactical ineptitude and poor player selection.

In some cases, it is definitely true that some of the players quite simply weren't good enough-ie Haber getting burned for 4 goals, Nunez and Bourgault too slow and overwhelmed in midfield against Chile and O'Connor refusing to run past the halfway line against Austria while having acres of space in front of him.

In my opinion, Edgar and Johnson would have been at least more effective in defensive midfield roles with Bourgault dropped back to central defence to replace the outgunned Haber.

Unfortunately, it also is true that Dale Mitchell's tactics and player selection also weren't good enough. Kennedy Onwu Ansah (forgive the spelling) was so much better than Miles O'Connor, I'm still puzzled as to why KOA sat on the bench the first two matches.

Against Austria, when Canada desperately needed a target man to work with the forwards, Mitchell kept Lombardo on the bench until late in the second half. Once he was on the field he created two immediate chances with flick ons. Unfortunately, Dale Mitchell subbed Keegan Ayre who was our best crosser of the ball up to that point in order to bring on Lombardo thereby successfully limiting Lombardo having an even greater impact. Why not take off someone else so that you pair the best crosser with the best target forward. This is basic stuff folks.

From what I've heard, Dale Mitchell is a very nice person, but as a coach who can get the most out of the players at international level he had available, he has shown himself to be found wanting.

romurra

[Macksam]

Why are we beating a dead horse? We know the youth system is flawed, everybody knows that. Let's just hope the CSA fixes it.

[john tv]

It is all about that effen media. As long as we are treated as a minority who will become interested in soccer. TFC has proven what the media can do. Next step is Montreal,Vancouver and others in the MSL. Below that structures for lower leagues etc. Player developments across Canada. But if we want to be on a world level in order to produce these players through a logical system, we must be recognized as a truly Canadian sports body. No such thing no such success. Over the years that media has repelled against soccer and as long as that happened we will never ever reach the high standards as are demanded.

How could we be one of the world powers in soccer while in our own country we are treated as a visible minority.?

[Macksam]

If we get the Women's World Cup in 2011, Canada should do what Germany did when they won the rights to host the 2006 World Cup. When Germany was preparing for the World Cup, the country ambitiously started a program of new stadium projects to get ready for the tournuement. Hopefully Canada does that for the Women's World Cup as I don't want to see Swangard, the Big O or Commonwealth stadium being used.