It's time to chill the **** out

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

Now that I have you attention…

Boys…it was an under-20 tournament. Kids. A good chunk of Europe doesn’t even care about the u-20s. In 1981 Qatar made the final. On another occasion Ghana did. It’s a nice little development tournament, but it isn’t really that important and it certainly isn’t a predictor of senior success.

Losing the way we did sucked. It was just another occasion where we, as Canadian soccer fans, had to take it on the chin from our less informed friends and our (more often than not) oblivious sports media. Canada sucks. Can’t beat the Congo. Blah. Blah. Blah.

However, as I have sat back the last few days and watched the fall-out—and there has been a fall-out—I’ve increasingly become convinced that this could be the best thing that has ever happened to Canadian soccer.

A few things to consider:

1) the MNT, the only team that really matters is as good as it ever has been. We have more depth, more flare and flat-out ability than, likely, at any other point in our development as a soccer playing nation. All those millions of kids that played u-5 YMCA soccer in the '80s are paying off now. We still aren’t developing them—for the most part European clubs are—but we still benefit from them.

2) This tournament is making boatloads of money

3) This tournament is keeping soccer on the front pages all month

4) The media, all of it, not just the old soccer standbys, is actually critically looking at the sport and our failure to be successful at it.

The thing is, point number four contradicts with point one. However, to us the fan, that’s great. We want the media to think that we are the worst soccer country in the world. We don’t want the mainstream sports media to realize that our senior national team can string two passes together. We don’t want them to figure out that the u-20s aren’t likely to figure into 2010 qualifying at all.

We want the media to keep being critical of the CSA, to keep embarrassing them. Then, maybe, the CSA will use some of that boatload of money its making to actually improve the elite development side of things (which is clearly the biggest failing of Canadian soccer—we grow great grapes in this country, but we are ****ty at turning them into wine, to use an analogy)

In the meantime we, the fans, still get to maintain some hope that the MNT can make it to South Africa. After all, we all just watched what it can do at the Gold Cup. Mitchell doubts aside, there is no reason to think (other than pure, justified, unbridled skepticism learned from years and years and years of being frustrated) that the team can’t repeat things on the WCQ stage.

To me it’s a perfect storm for Canadian soccer. Combine an underrated MNT, a suddenly semi-interested media, boatloads of money and a demand for change and, to me, you have the potential for good things. Real change. And, from that change, success.

And I’m not sure the criticism would have been the same if Canada had lost 3-0 to Chile, tied Austria 0-0 and beat Congo 1-0 before losing the round-of-16 match 3-0. The results would have been almost as bad, but people would have shrugged their shoulders and said ‘well, that’s about right.’

Instead, we got embarrassed. Next to winning thew whole damn thing (or making a run to the semis, at least) I can’t think of a better result.

Seriously.

[Gian-Luca]

Great post.

[The Beaver]

Yes, well said. Nice to see a rational, big-picture view.

Mind you, to defend all those given to histrionics at the moment, they are only going through all the normal stages of loss and disappointment ie. rage, sadness etc. I'd be more worried if our core fans were complacent.

[ken]

Amen.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

We want the media to keep being critical of the CSA, to keep embarrassing them. Then, maybe, the CSA will use some of that boatload of money its making to actually improve the elite development side of things

What money ...its FIFAs tournament..where do you get the idea the revenues are going to the CSA ?

[mcaout]

I appreciate your points, but I don't agree with you on some of them.

I'm not sure of this being good for Canadian soccer. I worry that the children and teens no doubt moved to watch the U 20 WC by the massive media blitz will see a very sad Canada and not want to play for us. They have famous examples of where you can go if you play for someone else internationally. I think this will be increased once we're finally allowed to bask in the glory of Hardgraves playing at Man U next year.

Also, you speak of the grapes we grow, yes more money to turn them elite. But under your first section you put the MNT above all else, which for me, throws half, if not more of the grapes to the bin. I'm sure it's accepted dogma here that the MNT is the most important, and I'll admit to feeling the same way. But I don't think that the CSA can shift focus away from Women's soccer or that they should pick the MNT to recieve its resources. Women's soccer already faces lots of problems with funding and supporting players. Most importantly, womens soccer is where at least half of the young players are going to. I think they might have issues with the fact their teams do not really matter.

I also think this U 20 WC is as important as we want it to be. To compare its relivance to us in light of attitudes in Europe isn't necessarily fair. Europe has other compitions to take the place of this ( U 21 ), we don't as much. I think this is a big disappointment, one which hopefully forces the CSA to reform and rethink, as you say put pressure on them, but I feel we must be respectful of the right of all levels, sexes, and ages to be represented by the CSA.

[CoachRich]

Interesting points -

1. a lot of female soccer players & their supporters will disagree w/ "the MNT, the only team that really matters" Even Sports Canada would disagree w/ your statement as they give more money to the WNT team as they qualify based on Sports Canada's formula higher than the MNT.

Lindfords similar statements about "the MNT, the only team that really matters" has inflamed the WNT,a lot of the soccer community & even those that aren't soccer followers. He's got to go as he's not in step w/ the times.

2. This is FIFA's tournament. Even though CSA will get a cut the biggest bonus of this event are the leagacy facilities. Remember BMO was built w/ tax dollars from whom & how much other money the CSA got to fund this event. The CSA has no money, if they did they would make their financials public you'd think.

3. Yes, this event is got soccer in the media but it's not the first event to do so in a big way. Even Ben Knight acknowledge that this event probably would not have happen if the WNT YWC in 2002 was such a success.

4. Yes, hopefully something will come out of the media pressing the CSA for answers. The general public understand their money was used in part to fund this event. Also, as a sporting country I don't think many Canadians like having teams bombing like this.

Bottomline is getting embrassed is going to be good in moving soccer forward but I still think rather than all of us waiting on the CSA we do our part & make it easier for the kids in development programs to excel & move up the ladder.

[RJB]

I see where you are coming from, but it is a poor attitude to be ok with losing. It should never be a 'good thing' and we shouldn't treat it as such.

The only way things will change is if we remain vocal.

[rodfern2007]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

I see where you are coming from, but it is a poor attitude to be ok with losing. It should never be a 'good thing' and we shouldn't treat it as such.

The only way things will change is if we remain vocal.

Right on. As spectators and as consumers, we demand something in return for price of admission to watch our national team play. As the late Bill Shankley was fond of reminding his players that they are priveledged to play for the spectator. We must drum this mantra into their heads, both the players and the CSA (both directors and coaching staff). The CSA may have been able to get away with mediocre results in the past. But in the age of the internet, that is no longer possible, and we the fans must remind them of this.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

I see where you are coming from, but it is a poor attitude to be ok with losing.

I don't think Media Guy was trying to suggest that. I think it was just a case of reminding everyone that it isn't the end of the world, and we still have much to look forward to & to be positive about.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I don't think Media Guy was trying to suggest that. I think it was just a case of reminding everyone that it isn't the end of the world, and we still have much to look forward to & to be positive about.

However, as I have sat back the last few days and watched the fall-out—and there has been a fall-out—I’ve increasingly become convinced that this could be the best thing that has ever happened to Canadian soccer.

hmmm, then maybe I misunderstood what him.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

a lot of female soccer players & their supporters will disagree w/ "the MNT, the only team that really matters" Even Sports Canada would disagree w/ your statement as they give more money to the WNT team as they qualify based on Sports Canada's formula higher than the MNT.

Lindfords similar statements about "the MNT, the only team that really matters" has inflamed the WNT,a lot of the soccer community & even those that aren't soccer followers. He's got to go as he's not in step w/ the times.

Hmm, hate to say it, but in MOST countries the MNT IS the only

team that matters. Check out Spain, France, Greece, Argentina,

South Korea, and a few others ... the womens' team is secondary.

And the MEN'S competition (ie. the World Cup) is where the MONEY

is. This isn't just an opinion; check out FIFA's mandate to

REVIEW the women's competition to assess its future viability

after this September. A few years ago, Sepp Blatter even suggested

that women's teams should wear shorter and tighter outfits to

make the teams "more attractive". (What a nutcase.) Does this

sound to you that FIFA wants a more "equal" emphasis regarding

gender?

MediaGuy is just talking about the silver lining to the U20 disaster,

where if our MNT gets the funding it deserves towards success,

everyone (including the WNT program) will benefit.

Great post, MG ...

[brodycheese]

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but straight from a company working with the CSA and fifa at the tournament, anything over 500,000 tickets sold is profit to the CSA. I don't think I have to remind you how many have already been sold. In addition, each city had companies bid on promotion and running the sites, ottawa is actually run by the CSA VOLUNTEERS, another way to make a lot of money. Don't be naive and think that there isn't a lot of money going the CSA's way because there is.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by brodycheese

Sorry to burst your bubbles, but straight from a company working with the CSA and fifa at the tournament, anything over 500,000 tickets sold is profit to the CSA. I don't think I have to remind you how many have already been sold. In addition, each city had companies bid on promotion and running the sites, ottawa is actually run by the CSA VOLUNTEERS, another way to make a lot of money. Don't be naive and think that there isn't a lot of money going the CSA's way because there is.

Good. Now it remains for them to use it wisely & prepare our men's team properly for World Cup Qualifying.

[maccaliam]

I would hope that all of the profit from this tournament will then go straight into the National teams.

While I don't see why it would go anywhere else, this is the CSA after all and rational thought is not their strong point.

[ken]

quote:Originally posted by maccaliam

I would hope that all of the profit from this tournament will then go straight into the National teams.

While I don't see why it would go anywhere else, this is the CSA after all and rational thought is not their strong point.

Bidding on the next womens world cup.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

I see where you are coming from, but it is a poor attitude to be ok with losing. It should never be a 'good thing' and we shouldn't treat it as such.

I think if you read between the lines of my post, you will see that I'm hardly "accepting" of the losing attitude that far too often infects Canadian sport.

To spell it out clearly, the point I'm making is that I'm sick of that attitude and have been for a long time. However, as it relates to soccer, I've never held much hope that we could eliminate it.

I think the results at this tournament will do more to kick-start that badly needed attitude chance than 1,000 angry e-mails from us folks ever would.

I have tickets to the final. Two weeks ago, I was hoping against hope that I might get to see a Canadian Cinderella story that day. Trust me, I'm not happy that I've been made a fool again for having the adacity to hope for something out of a Canadian side.

However, if we were going to lose I'm glad we did it the way we did. As I said in the original post, a mediocre tournament wouldn't have caused the reaction that this has. And since I never want to see a debacle like that again...I'm, after the fact, glad the ball knocked Andrea Lombardo down.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by ken

Bidding on the next womens world cup.

How much would a bid cost? I think the success of this tournament has all-but assured that the '11 WWC is coming to Canada--FIFA likes its money after all and we have a strong argument to make that we can make them more of it than anywhere else.

When it comes to the WWC, North America should be thought of in the same way that Europe is thought of with the WC. It should be held in NA more often than other regions because its popularity is greatest there.

A word about the women. I cheer for them (as I do any Canadian team in any sport). I hope they do well. However, when it considering what would provide the most benefit to Canadian soccer, a Women's World Cup win (like, the whole thing) would still provide less benefit than would the men simply qualifying.

I know it's not PC to suggest that the men should get the lion's share of funding (and if you don't like it then you probably don't want to hear my theory on paralympic funding...), but, well...

[CoachRich]

quote:

Hmm, hate to say it, but in MOST countries the MNT IS the only

team that matters. Check out Spain, France, Greece, Argentina,

South Korea, and a few others ... the womens' team is secondary.

And the MEN'S competition (ie. the World Cup) is where the MONEY

is. This isn't just an opinion; check out FIFA's mandate to

REVIEW the women's competition to assess its future viability

after this September. A few years ago, Sepp Blatter even suggested

that women's teams should wear shorter and tighter outfits to

make the teams "more attractive". (What a nutcase.) Does this

sound to you that FIFA wants a more "equal" emphasis regarding

gender?

MediaGuy is just talking about the silver lining to the U20 disaster,

where if our MNT gets the funding it deserves towards success,

everyone (including the WNT program) will benefit.

Great post, MG ...

This is Canada & BOTH teams matter here just like they do in the USA.

We all understand where the Golden Rainbow for the MNT is but like Sports Canada they dole out the money based upon the results. W/ the MNT they are trying but it's been a long wait since '86.

FIFA's mandate w/ respect to Women is expanding the number of teams in the Olympics which they have done w/ a view of doing the same for the next WC.

Sure Blatter is on somedays a clone of Linford but what do you expect when they are so out of touch.

Yes, MG's central theme that this is a wake up call for soccer in Canada to shift gears in attitude is spot on & something I totally subscribe to.

I think all of us want changes at every level but the biggest change has to come at CSA. The number of posts written on the subject is a telling story of an era that needs to be replaced.

[nedved9]

I too am pretty pissed off on how the U20S went for Canada. But how it goes sometimes. At least our seniors mens team is improving that is nice to see. I totally agree with mediaguy this might be a good thing at the end of the day. People are talking about it now and they are pretty pissed not just Soccer fans but even your ocassional fan. Were I think 10 years ago no body would not even cared. With all the extra critiscm from many sources hopefully the CSA will start changing thier ways and believe it might be a big cost at the end of the day but I think it will be worth it.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

Addendum:

I'm not making the argument that the Women's team has no importance. I'm simply suggesting success by the men's national team has the potential to do more good for the game in this country than that of any other program.

However, if the women were to go to China and do something really special it would continue to increase the profile of the sport here and it would, of course, be something worth celebrating.

But for a real, lasting breakthrough we need to get to South Africa.

that said, if you were to amend my original statement to just read that the "senior teams are the only teams that matter" then I could live with that.

And is Kara Lang really 20? God, that makes me feel old.

[CoachRich]

Hopefully after the U20's there will be more money for all programs as the women only have the senior team now.

Kara is 21 in October. It's hard to believe she has been on the scene for 5 years now. At the UBC practices she is like a senior player as there are lots of younger players coming up that are 89-92's.

[VPjr]

One of the major reasons that people are so upset with the results of the U20 team is that Mitchell is now moving over to coach our senior team.

Our Senior team is right now as talented as they have ever been. Somehow, I am sure Mitchell was able to convince the board he has had a hand in this. The reality is that Mitchell was given more resources than any other national team coach has ever had to put together a competitive team for a tournament held at home and not only did the team fail miserably, he has spent the past 3-4 days making all kinds of ridiculous excuses to try to deflect responsibility away from himself.

If Mitchell resigns, I will write this tournament off as bad of our U20's but good for soccer in general in this country. If the CSA is indeed going to be rolling in money due to the success of this tournament, spend the money on:

a) regional residency programs staffed by the best coaches this country has.

Hiring the best coach and TD available for the Senior MNT (rather than the best we can afford).

c) working with and providing seed money for all the various parties involved to create a national soccer league for U25's (or maybe just U23). basically my vision is to have a single league that is split into up to 4 regional divisions (West, Central, East and Maritime) that play within their region only for the regular season and then have an end of season playoff to name a national champion. All the regions would play by the same rules, with an emphasis on developing young players.

[RJB]

I refuse to find the silver lining, because I've been looking for the silver lining since 1994, when we lost to Australia. I'm sick of hearing that any coverage is good coverage, and that "at least people are talking about soccer." Voyageurs of all people should no better.

I was perusing the CBC online archives last week, and saw a special on the 1986 World Cup team, and how no one cared, and how all the Cafe's were full of people who didn't like Canadian soccer but would do anything to watch their country of origin. That special was from 1986, and nothing has changed.

The U20's got spanked all over the park, and the coach's excuse is that we just weren't good enough. That is unacceptable considering that they are good enough. No one thought they'd win it all but by all means they should have come out of the group. But for Voyageurs to turn around and say that this is ok, because soccer is getting popular, I shake my head as hard as I can knowing that this is the same old line on the same old topic.

We need to demand better. We shouldn't be happy that the papers are talking about soccer during the U20 World Cup, we should be barely satisfied. When this tournament roles out of town, we should continue to be the voice of the team, and the accountability check that the CSA needs.

I cannot be happy losing, and I refuse to see the silver lining. This is not good enough, and we should be demanding answers and explanations.

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by CoachRich

Interesting points -

The CSA has no money, if they did they would make their financials public you'd think.

Can't agree with this logic, I'm afraid. The typical move in publicly funded/amateur athletics in Canada is the opposite. 'Look at our books, everyone, see how little we're getting?'

Especially, especially after a huge public failure of a program. Its in the handbook for all Canadian sports agencies...Emergency Action Plan A: Cry Poor.

The fact that CSA hasn't cried poor after this debacle suggests, to me, that they were better funded, at least for this event, than usual.