Fire Dale Mitchell's a$$

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

This has to be the most ridiculously OTT suggestion I have ever seen. If the players are the ones who are to be blamed so much that they deserve to be deliberately punished in the way you are mentioning, then why are you even asking for Mitchell to be fired before he coaches a game with the senior team? How can it be entirely their fault as well as entirely Mitchell's fault?

I'm all for demanding & encouraging for improvements to be made, but this talk of punishment is ridiculous. The players, coaches & fans have all been punished enough as it is by what has happened.

As Canadian supporters we need to support Canada no matter what happens, win or lose.

I've always thought the CSA should take example on the North Korea story in 1966....I think reform camps are the only way to go with those players.....

[Natesta]

I'm not really a big fan of either Hart or Mitchell, but you can't equate the two's performances. The Gold cup for the MNT is at a much lower level than the U-20 WC would be for the youth.

And remember, Canada under Hart lost to Guadalupe!

The CSA board of directors should have had their heads out of their butts and hired expertise from outside of the country in the first place.

The biggest problem I see with firing Mitchell now is that it'll take another freaking year to hire a replacement, and that's why it'll never happen.

Lets just hope the WCQ goes well in spite of Mitchell.

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

This has to be the most ridiculously OTT suggestion I have ever seen. If the players are the ones who are to be blamed so much that they deserve to be deliberately punished in the way you are mentioning, then why are you even asking for Mitchell to be fired before he coaches a game with the senior team? How can it be entirely their fault as well as entirely Mitchell's fault?

Could not agree more.

Sorry, guys, rewatch the Chile game, Mitchell tried to play a possession game and the results were comically bad. Johnson passes to no one in particular. Nunez passes to opposing players.

A bunch of teenagers wet themselves on the 'World' stage. Its not that staggering an outcome.

There are several players on this team that will not just play for MNT, but will help MNT. Some of whom I am now less impressed with than I was (like Johnson), but I digress.

And a couple of these guys will be 50 cap fixtures on MNT, like Edgar and Begovic (and possibly Peters, though I think he will likely always be best used as a sub).

I think what bothers me most about all of this rending of flesh is that we all know these players, we have had the chance to see them play several times prior to this; we know, for instance, that Jackson and Ricketts and Peters are capable of striking fear in defenders at this level.

They just underperformed, guys, it happens. It happens far more often with teenagers. Hockey fans will remember many occassions when a great-on-paper Junior Team has screwed it at tournament time...it happens.

[sj]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

keep supporting mediocrity you are playing into the hands of the CSA.

Mitchell had over three yrs to prepare this team he did not show that he had any kind of control of how to coach this team

the same mistakes we saw towards the build for this tournament in games against C squads was evident again in those three matches.

different set of players in two tournamnet same carp on the field and it is getting worse, zero goal scored says it all.

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by sj

keep supporting mediocrity you are playing into the hands of the CSA.

I don't even know how to read this, let alone respond to it.

'Playing into' their hands? What? Now the CSA is invested in maintaining mediocrity, apparently.

Wow. You must have been bummed when the X-Files went off the air.

keep spouting over the top, vaguely conspiratorial, rants you are playing into the hands of the Smoking Man.

[sj]

quote:Originally posted by gkhs

I don't even know how to read this, let alone respond to it.

what else would call thie debacle zero points zero goals in three game

we finished dead last and the CSA hired him as head coach of their flagship squad.

[rightback]

quote:Originally posted by gkhs

'Playing into' their hands? What? Now the CSA is invested in maintaining mediocrity, apparently.

I'm not into conspiracy theories as a rule but given the results over the years, this one seems to make a lot of sense. Why else hire Mitchell for the men's team?

Re: last night's game...at least there were some laughs when Beaulieu-Bourgault was forced to play net with the big gloves. He did really well too. At least they tried in the last game.

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by sj

what else would call thie debacle zero points zero goals in three game

we finished dead last and the CSA hired him as head coach of their flagship squad.

I just find this idea that the CSA is an evil enterprise bent on keeping Canadian football in the doldrums tiresome.

I have no doubt that the people at CSA want our NTs to succeed as much as we do.

Like all things run by committees, private agendas get in the way of the most linear, effective path...that doesn't mean they are evil or malicious...just short-sighted

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by gkhs

I just find this idea that the CSA is an evil enterprise bent on keeping Canadian football in the doldrums tiresome.

I have no doubt that the people at CSA want our NTs to succeed as much as we do.

Like all things run by committees, private agendas get in the way of the most linear, effective path...that doesn't mean they are evil or malicious...just short-sighted

Or severely incompetent...or blindingly partisan (ie. the provincial associations)

[gkhs]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Or severely incompetent...or blindingly partisan (ie. the provincial associations)

But not evil.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by sj

keep supporting mediocrity you are playing into the hands of the CSA.

If you don't want to support Canada, you don't have to. This however, is a Canadian supporter's site & group, so one would question what you are doing here if you don't want to support Canada. And by support Canada I don't mean not offer any useful suggestions for improvement. However it would be a strange definition of support that would encourage pro-active punishment of our players for not playing as well as they or we would have liked. Players should be selected on the basis of performance and merit, not sentencing.

I noticed at Commonwealth Stadium that when we were down 2-0 & had a midfielder playing goal & needed to score 5 goals in the last 15 minutes our supporters were still cheering the team on. That's the kind of support we need, the kind of support that will encourage our kids to learn from their mistakes & play more inspired/less nervous from the get go, which was obviously a major problem for this team (though not the only one).

[Gian-Luca]

FWIW, Mitchell's quotes in this article suggest that he is not looking to change the possession style that Canada played at the Gold Cup:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/article.jsp?content=20070708_220643_4824

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by gkhs

But not evil.

But certainly not evil...

[pulsar]

I agree with supporting your country at all costs, but i also support a superior system to the one we have in place. I am not going to rant about the CSA because, well, beating a dead horse is useless. Our boys give heart and soul out there and deserve song, cheers and chants. But, and this kills me to bring hockey into the fold, when my team (the canucks) are playing terrible...BOO! yes, that is my right to Boo my team when they suck. Everyone else does..just watch England matches. Support our teams...but if something is not working, don't mask anything. That is probably the best support we can show. I will be happy to pass petrified maple leafs through my bowls for a great Canadian Soccer Team...but i also will not hide my feelings as to when there is something not quite right.

Player selection in this country seems to be more political than talent based. I have thoughts that Dale Mitchell has no choice as to who he picks for our squad. I really have no evidence to back this up but it's just something that has popped into my thick skull. Any thoughts?

[Guest speedmonk42]

Furthermore, the key players on this team need to also be punished for their completely unacceptable performances. None of the key players, not even David Edgar, can be rewarded with senior team caps for a long time (minimum of 5 years).

---------------

Ok I understand your frustration, I feel it too. But that is pure madness.

You can't punish players in this manner, especially youth.

Many of them may grow into excellent players in the coming years.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by pulsar

But, and this kills me to bring hockey into the fold, when my team (the canucks) are playing terrible...BOO! yes, that is my right to Boo my team when they suck. Everyone else does..just watch England matches. Support our teams...but if something is not working, don't mask anything. That is probably the best support we can show. I will be happy to pass petrified maple leafs through my bowls for a great Canadian Soccer Team...but i also will not hide my feelings as to when there is something not quite right.

Player selection in this country seems to be more political than talent based. I have thoughts that Dale Mitchell has no choice as to who he picks for our squad. I really have no evidence to back this up but it's just something that has popped into my thick skull. Any thoughts?

Fair enough, but if you're using the hockey analogy, compare the

MNT to the Canadian Olympic Hockey Team or the World Championship

Team, not the Canucks. You will see similarities (political player

selections, club vs. country issues, questionable coaching tactics,

etc.) As a fan, you have every right to question or be dismayed

at your team. But IMHO, supporters have to be constructive in

their criticism in the least, and supportive of their team's efforts at the most.

Which other team do we have anyway?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by pulsar

Player selection in this country seems to be more political than talent based. I have thoughts that Dale Mitchell has no choice as to who he picks for our squad. I really have no evidence to back this up but it's just something that has popped into my thick skull. Any thoughts?

There may indeed be some politics involved in player selection which is indeed the case in every country I have lived in including soccer powerhouse Germany. Yet for all the people claiming that the selection procedure was poor, I have yet to see anyone of them name some alternate players who should have been selected. I have the program for our pre-WC tour and it has a writeup for every player called during the 2 year period preceding the WC. It is a very large player pool and yet of all of the players who I have seen in games who did not make the final team, there is not one of them I would have called to the team. While every now and then a player surfaces unexpectedly, I doubt that there are a large number of top Canadian players superior or even equal to those on the team who were not called.

I like others would have liked to have seen KOA play more in the tournament but possibly Mitchell was afraid to play him because of his age. Haber was a real weak spot but CB was a weak spot in all of the pre-WC games we played. After Edgar, none of the CBs looked good and Haber did appear to be the best of the group.

[sj]

we did someone like Haber come into the fold?

2+ yrs before the tournamanet you take one yr to look at players and the second one to mold the players into a team.

Mitchell was still fiddling with the team.

Chemistry will compensate for shortage of talent wont turn you team into a graet one but at least average and this team did not have the chemistry needed that is the main reason why this team was below average.

Mitchell was using those tune up games to look a players instead of working on team cohesion and chemistry.

It does not take long for a good coach to know if a player has the technical level required before wasting valuable tuneup games on him.

while there is a tournament just around the corner.

[pulsar]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Fair enough, but if you're using the hockey analogy, compare the

MNT to the Canadian Olympic Hockey Team or the World Championship

Team, not the Canucks. You will see similarities (political player

selections, club vs. country issues, questionable coaching tactics,

etc.) As a fan, you have every right to question or be dismayed

at your team. But IMHO, supporters have to be constructive in

their criticism in the least, and supportive of their team's efforts at the most.

Which other team do we have anyway?

Using a club team isn't far off, but your are right, i should have compared National team to national team......criticisim should always be constructive. But passions flare and it's sometimes hard to contain.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Mitchell is not going to be fired. So just leave it. We are completely at his mercy, and here's hoping that with Hart at his side they do a bit better.

Let's also hope that he calls in more or less the best players for WCQ and they coach themselves into the HEX. Meaning they decide how to play, ignore Mitchell if he is being dumb, and get the results in spite of him. Which is what I think they did at the Gold Cup to a certain degree. Or are you going to tell me that Hart trained that style of play?

Big risk with Mitchell as with Yallop: call in the kids because they are young and don't talk back, while with the senior guys they won't take any ****. And you are so weak and insecure that you need allies in the squad, including ones who are not ready to be there. That is the risk. Here's hoping Mitchell can pull his tail from between his legs and show he's a man and call up our best guys to play the kind of football we are capable of.

I think Mitchell is our coach until WC qualifying ends. If we make the HEX and don't make the WC2010, then possibly he could continue. If we don't make the HEX a new window will open for us. Not sure what that means as we don't know who will be running the CSA. If Hart qualifies us for the U20 WC in 2009 he will continue there too. I am fond of the tournament, really am.

That said, I never favoured Dale Mitchell as national coach, I have no faith in him and think he is not even honest, which is on top of being technically very rough; he's like a decent 4th division coach, in Spain he'd make 2500 Euros a month coaching a fourth tier team before 1200 fans. He is not expert in absolutely anything, and he coaches his teams badly.

[rodfern2007]

I don't want to sound like a pessimist or anything, but the way things are beginning to unfold, I don't see Canada progressing beyond the preliminary rounds of World Cup qualifying, much less qualify for South Africa 2010. I hope I'm wrong but from where I'm standing things are in complete disarray. This is especially disheartening given our recent performance at the Gold Cup where Canada put on a good display of soccer, the best I've seen in recent years.

On another topic, I read somewhere the the next Gold Cup will be held here in Canada. If anyone can confirm this, I would really appreciate this. And if it really is the case, then I would suggest the team forget about trying to qualify for 2010 (as it is obvious the most people that they have no chance of qualifying) and instead concentrate their efforts on that competition (Gold Cup) and try to restore our team's confidence by putting a better performance than our U-20 team did. From there we might finally be able to set the ship right and try our luck for 2014, wherever that World Cup will be held.

What do you say folks.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by rodfern2007

On another topic, I read somewhere the the next Gold Cup will be held here in Canada. If anyone can confirm this, I would really appreciate this. And if it really is the case, then I would suggest the team forget about trying to qualify for 2010 (as it is obvious the most people that they have no chance of qualifying) and instead concentrate their efforts on that competition (Gold Cup) and try to restore our team's confidence by putting a better performance than our U-20 team did. From there we might finally be able to set the ship right and try our luck for 2014, wherever that World Cup will be held.

What do you say folks.

I'd say you are nuts. No offense, but that's about as crazy a suggestion as the one that we should ban the current U20 team players from any senior team appearances for a minimum of 5 years. The current U20 team will have little to no bearing on the qualifying for 2010 (and not because they will be banned) - only a few of the players will be involved in qualifying for 2010 and fewer still are likely to take a central role as a key starter until we make it to the Hex, if we do.

To qualify for the World Cup we have to face off against other Concacaf teams, not the teams that have made the World Cup from the other regions.

Qualifying for the World Cup in 2010 is a very realistic goal, the performance of our senior team at the recent Gold Cup with many potential starters missing should mean that we are more encouraged about our chances, not less. And I'd say our senior team is pretty confident right now, I don't their confidence has been shattered by the U20 failure any more than the recent failure of the U17 team to qualify for the U17 World Cup. Unless you think Dale Mitchell is a one-man wrecking crew that is going to ignore everything his Assistant Coach has started to develop, I can't see what basis you would say that we have no chance to qualify for 2010.

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I noticed at Commonwealth Stadium that when we were down 2-0 & had a midfielder playing goal & needed to score 5 goals in the last 15 minutes our supporters were still cheering the team on. That's the kind of support we need, the kind of support that will encourage our kids to learn from their mistakes & play more inspired/less nervous from the get go, which was obviously a major problem for this team (though not the only one).

Gian-Luca, I've got to disagree with you here. You can still be a supporter yet show your displeasure. The fans at Commonwealth should not have been cheering at the end of last night's game. Our team should have been booed of the pitch. That doesn't mean that we don't like them or we don't want them to do well. It just shows that we are not going to accept unsatisfactory performances.

[rodfern2007]

In response to your statements Gian Luca, first off, I never suggested that we ban the current U20 team players from the senior team. Certainly if they are capable of securing a spot on the senior squad then they ought to be included, by all means. In fact there are several players who are more than capable. That said, we should bear in mind that under a more experienced capable coach, these players could possibly become the kind of players our country so desparately needs. I just don't see that happening with Mitchel. His record as the U20 coach doesn't inspire confidence.

Second, I am well aware that we do have to face off against other CONCACAF teams to qualify, not teams from other confederations. At least give some credit for knowing that fact. It is afterall common knowledge. And while it is concievable that qualifying for 2010 is realistic, I hope you will bear this in mind. Back in 2000 when Canada won the Gold Cup, all the pundits in Canada assumed that this would be a prelude to qualifying for Japan/Korea 2002, which of course did not happen. What people do not realize that the 2000 Gold Cup victory occured under miraculous circumstances, when we beat Mexico 2-1, courtesy of a Golden goal which by the way has been scrapped by FIFA, coupled with the fact that the USA was also eliminated the same day, thus removing any possible obstacle (other than Colombia which they met at the final) on their march to the final. Had that (golden goal) rule not been there at that particular moment and the game allowed to continue, it is quite likely that Canada could have ended up losing that game. But based on that performance, every assumed - incorrectly as it turned out - that this was a precursor of better times ahead and an automatic berth in the 2002 World Cup, never realizing the reality of the situation with Canadian soccer and that over time the other teams in CONCACAF would eventually recover and bring their A game in time for the World Cup qualifying campaign - which they did.

Finally, your assumption that Mitchell would ignore everything Hart did, let me just say this; no two individuals are alike. Like any other coach, Mitchel will inevitably make his stamp on the team. That much is a given. Otherwise why would we have hired him in the first place if all he's going to do follow his predessesor's rule book. And that is what worries me most. If he couldn't achieve the desired results with the U20 team, what makes you think he will do any better with the senior team? Again I hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't know. I just don't know.

If somehow Canada qualifies for the 2010 World Cup, I would hope they put in a decent performance and most importantly, score a goal. Even one goal, will make me happy, ... , for a little while. But beyond that, we have to address the problems that are inherent within the organization and try to build from that, and not repeat the same mistakes. Until that happens, we will still be miired in mediocraty.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by masster

Gian-Luca, I've got to disagree with you here. You can still be a supporter yet show your displeasure. The fans at Commonwealth should not have been cheering at the end of last night's game. Our team should have been booed of the pitch. That doesn't mean that we don't like them or we don't want them to do well. It just shows that we are not going to accept unsatisfactory performances.

I disagree.

I'm not one to boo anyone off anything, but I think it would have been justified after either of the first two matches. But yesterday the boys out played Congo, played their hearts out and left it all on the pitch. I don't it accomplishes anything to make kids feel bad about themselves after giving a great effort.