Luis_Rancagua Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Guys, Please try to understand that, through this post, I'm not trying to promote the removal of Dale Mitchell as national coach of the Canadian men's senior world cup team. However, after his $hit performance as coach of the U-20, I'm starting to express serious concerns as to whether he's the right man for the job. Should he be fired or should the fans give him one more chance??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rujulus Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I'm good with fired. Maybe we can get BMO or some sponsor to cough up the cash to pay the salary of Rene Simoes or some quality manager. "Mesdames et messieurs, presenting your _BMO_ National Team Coach... Rene Simoes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Loome Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 After sitting through that ****e performance tonight, in which they showed all the heart, guile and passion of an in-grown toenail, it is abundantly obvious this man is not a motivator. Dreadful. We should've walked all over that Austrian team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Jose Pekerman or Guus Hiddink. We need to start playing Dutch style Total Football. It would be the best and quickest way for Canada to develop. It did wonders for South Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hopefully TFC's youth academy emulates Ajax's and promotes Dutch football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarnCherry Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I'm not defending Dale Mitchell, I haven't been a fan of his since his Vancouver 86ers were up 3-0 to Minnesota in the first leg of the playoffs in 2000 and promptly went into Minnesota and lost 0-3 losing it in extra time. However how big a bunch of pussies does this team have to be to need Mitchell to motivate them during a world cup tournament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 There's alot more talent in Canada than what the U-20 side shows. That's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dale Mitchell has a lot to prove. He had a lot to prove before this World Cup, however now he has so much more to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imusic Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 You guys are hilarious. You have a coach who in the just concluded Gold Cup had Canada playing the best football in their HISTORY yet you want to get Simoes? A so called big name coach would do very well to have Canada playing to that sort of standard far less for improving it. And he would cost a minimum 10 times more to boot. The CSA has no clue and you guys are proving to be just as clueless by your comments on this issue. Maybe the CSA and their fans are a match made in heaven. You certainly deserve each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by imusic You guys are hilarious. You have a coach who in the just concluded Gold Cup had Canada playing the best football in their HISTORY yet you want to get Simoes? A so called big name coach would do very well to have Canada playing to that sort of standard far less for improving it. The CSA has no clue and you guys are proving to be just as clueless by your comments on this issue. Maybe the CSA and their fans are a match made in heaven. You certainly deserve each other. Dale Mitchell didn't coach the Gold Cup team, Stephen Hart did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imusic Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by striker Dale Mitchell didn't coach the Gold Cup team, Stephen Hart did. I know. I was referring to the calls for Simoes, Hiddink and Pekerman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 So, let's go with Hart ! (That wasn't the case with Mitchell and his U 20's...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rujulus Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by imusic You guys are hilarious. You have a coach who in the just concluded Gold Cup had Canada playing the best football in their HISTORY yet you want to get Simoes? A so called big name coach would do very well to have Canada playing to that sort of standard far less for improving it. And he would cost a minimum 10 times more to boot. The CSA has no clue and you guys are proving to be just as clueless by your comments on this issue. Maybe the CSA and their fans are a match made in heaven. You certainly deserve each other. I'm not saying it has to be Simoes, but if you are crying about the bill that is footed by every other successful team then either you have to invent another formula for success or else you're not likely to succeed. Maybe Hart could be the guy, maybe not. He doesn't have the pedigree, but I was warming up to him at the Gold Cup. There haven't been a lot of other opportunities to follow his decision-making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 With the U20 performance Mitchell lost the MNT job. With the Gold cup performance Hart earned the MNT job. It might not look good but fair's fair. Will be interesting to see what the CSA does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by imusic Oh, so you were suggesting we should get Hart to coach the team instead of those three. I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Bertuzzi44 With the U20 performance Mitchell lost the MNT job. With the Gold cup performance Hart earned the MNT job. It might not look good but fair's fair. Will be interesting to see what the CSA does. Agree with the first sentence. As for the second, I hope the CSA will do the right thing by removing DM as the MNT coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imusic Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by striker Oh, so you were suggesting we should get Hart to coach the team instead of those three. I misunderstood. I have no real objection to Dale Mitchell as MNT coach. On the surface, CSA did the "sensible" thing. Mitchell had the "results". Hart didn't. I believe the players on the MNT wanted Hart as coach but not unhappy with Mitchell and glad both of them will be there. I do know that Mitchell will not have the team playing the same way as Hart did. He's much more defensive. Whether that will be good for the team or not remains to be seen. My point is....if Mitchell isn't coach....why look to a "big name" coach WHO THE CSA CANNOT AFFORD, when you already have a coach who has the team playing their best ever football. That "big name" coach isn't guaranteed to have them playing to that standard or better. Both the CSA and Mitchell are in an uncomfortable position. Mitchell, with the performance of the U 20 team thus far must be even more on the hot seat with the MNT, and the CSA wondering if they hired the wrong man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Mitchell is not looking good. He had these guys for the most preparation of any CDN team ever and produced shi te football at home. Im not saying fire the guy, but if things dont look good in friendlies and at the beginning of WCQ can him and bring in Hart at minimum or just switch their roles and have mitchell be the assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I think Mitchell should be given a chance. Evaluating his coaching abilities on the basis of two disappointing youth matches is unfair. He had done reasonably well with the U-20s in the past and we have to realize we are still an underdog in world soccer even at the U-20 level. Let's not forget that Hart has been almost completely unsuccessful at the U-17 level and also was very unimpressive as interim coach until the Gold Cup which was after the coaching decision was made. Evaluating both coaches based on two games in Mitchell's case and one sucessful tournament in Hart's case is not fair. That being said I am disappointed in the tactics Mitchell has employed so far. Yet it is also possible that we have overrated this team and the players are simply not as good as we thought. There is no doubt that the team is very unbalanced with some players getting first team professional action and others unattached or playing college ball. We have a couple of speedy strikers but don't seem to have a striker who can consistently score at this level. The amount of preparation is not really relevant to his abilities if the quality of players is not good. Plus much of the preparation was done with many starters unavailable because of club committments. Hart seemed to lack any type of tactic at all during the games he coached before the Gold Cup. Was the Gold Cup improvement due to him learning how to coach better quickly or the players coaching themselves? Regardless if he could consistently get results like this it wouldn't matter whether it was because of his coaching abilities or the players coaching themselves. However, we do not know if he can consistently get results like this or whether this tournament was a one-off. Regardless he will be Mitchell's assistent and if he is such a good coach as some believe will have a significant influence on tactics and player selection. If Mitchell does not perform well as head coach there will be someone who has coached the team waiting in the wings to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Agree with the first sentence. As for the second, I hope the CSA will do the right thing by removing DM as the MNT coach. Never going to happen. I firmly believe that the main factor in the timing of the Mitchell appointment was to do with the fact there was a slight high of some pretty good results vs other U20 sides and the hosting the U20 world cup this summer. The CSA wanted to hire him before he had a chance to prove to everyone what a donkey he is by actually not being a very good coach, as he has shown in the last 2 tournaments. I think the CSA thought if Hart tanks at the Gold Cup and Mitchell at the U20's, they are screwed for options and may have to go expensive and foreign, so appoint Mitchell now and then they have excuses later if he fails. At the time, Mitchell was a better choice than Hart, so the CSA jumped at the chance to get their cheap, homegrown man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaliam Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Let's not forget that Hart has been almost completely unsuccessful at the U-17 level and also was very unimpressive as interim coach until the Gold Cup which was after the coaching decision was made. I agree with this point and hope to God that Mitchell can make a just as successful jump to the big boys as Hart's was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 A further point is that we also have to watch what we are comparing. Hart has failed to advance his U-17 teams in CONCACAF competition (which like Mitchell may be due to poor coaching, inadequate players or both), had a mediocre record before the Gold Cup against mediocre teams and then achieved his best results against CONCACAF competition not World Cup competition. Hart's biggest achievements are victories against Costa Rica and Guatemala (both teams with a similar level of talent as we do) and a loss that should have gone into extra time against the US. Mitchell has usually advanced his team against CONCACAF competition. The lack of success is coming against World Cup level competition, ie. the best teams in the world. Hart has not had to face any opponent so superior to us as Chile were in the U-20. I imagine Gus Hiddink might have devised a better strategy for us against Chile than Mitchell but I still doubt we would have won this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Hart had nothing to do with our success at the GC other than picking a good squad. Tactically, he just got out of the way and let good, mature players play the game the right way (rather than the typical canadian way). He fielded the best group of midfielders in that tournament and, shockingly, we did well and should have gone to OT against the US. Mitchell has 2+ years to prepare for this tournament and what does he do...he builds a team devoid of midfield talent (Peters is a pacey, tricky player but he is not a midfielder that makes others better). Plus, his back line is slow and unable to close down defenders (other than Edgar, most of the time). In today's game, if you don't have quality in the middle of the park, you might as well book your ticket home early. And speed on D is critical. Our quickest D have sat on the bench for 2 games...great move coach. Neither of these men are the right choice to lead our senior team but the right choices will never bother with Canada because success is simply not possible. Good Coaches are winners and you can't win in Canada. The CSA is ultimately not structured to produce champions at any level and winning is not an expectation. For example, while the US won't win this tournament, their players told anyone who would listen that they expected to be a contender to win the tournament. We are the host country and threw more resources at this team that we have ever thrown at any MNT program and what do they aspire to...just getting out of the group stage and maybe to the Final 8. Please...that's pathetic. I would love to hear what is said in the dressing room tonight. If paint doesn't peel off the walls, if Mitchell doesn't jam a figurative broomstick up each players butt, he simply doesn't deserve the job of senior team coach because he and his players embarrased the whole country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Macksam Hopefully TFC's youth academy emulates Ajax's and promotes Dutch football. I contacted Paul Bierne and informed him that I know a very high profile dutch caoch who wanted to come to Canada asap.He has more credentials than even Hiddink and all Paul said is,we don't need a coach. Quite amazing. So forget about it.However it would have been a fantastic move and amazing way to start a TFC youth program under this guys guidance, But I guess Paul is not really fully aware yet the who is who or what yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 As one of the few people who wanted hart over mitchell when the hiring was going on, I still think we have to lay in this bed for at least a year, if hart didn't have a year as interim he probably wouldn't have been so successful in the gold cup. Mitchell is still a good choice and we have to let him fail the MNT before we fire him from the MNT, it would be brutal to fire him before he starts his job, he's at the very least acceptable and deserves his chance with the MNT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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