jpg75 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Why does this "discussion" about Denmark Superligaen always happen regardless of the forum? Denmark may not be a top league, but it's a decent place for players to develop and move on to top leagues. I think we should be thankful that players like Atiba, Issey etc. have been given a shot and keep improving themselves in places like Denmark...and that goes for other leagues too, like Norway for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Offcourse it's great that the league exists but enough is enough. You can't hang around more than 2 years in a place like that. You will not learn enough due to the reasons I mention above. You get an guaranteed early exit in Europe and you play **** teams week in week out. Thats not good for his development... Hutchinson needs to move quick. To either Germany , France , England or Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 It doesnt matter how many point you get in a CL season. FCK we're still bottom of their group. Odense BK same thing. They did beat Heerenveen but Odense ended 5th in the Uefa Cup group.. No ofcause Heerenveen finished 5th and last in that Group : link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 Offcourse it's great that the league exists but enough is enough. You can't hang around more than 2 years in a place like that. You will not learn enough due to the reasons I mention above. You get an guaranteed early exit in Europe and you play **** teams week in week out. Thats not good for his development... Hutchinson needs to move quick. To either Germany , France , England or Holland. Except he's actually going to get to play in Europe this fall, which is not guaranteed anywhere else he might go. Plus, he's at the mercy of FCK's demands of 6M Euros so no amount of griping is going to change that. Besides, it's his career and his life and he can do what he wants with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Except he's actually going to get to play in Europe this fall, which is not guaranteed anywhere else he might go. "Guaranteed" to at least make the UEFA Cup (who cares?!) but navigating through two rounds of Champions League qualifying as an unseeded club is far from a given. Anything less than the Champions League group stage is not worth Atiba's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Why does this "discussion" about Denmark Superligaen always happen regardless of the forum? Because ppl often seem to think of the Danish league as a very poor "one-team" league that you need to "escape" from as quickly as possible when you can. which it is quite ridiculous. The superliga is infact better than the Scottish PL if you look at the all-over technical level and at how may teams that would be able to make it in the Bundesliga, but then most ppl rate the SPL as being better because they think of Celtic and Rangers past results in Europe. Hutchinson on the other hand got it right when he says no to a move to Celtic and Rangers, because the SPL is "dead" (not only thinking of the general level, but also no doubt of his chances of moving from Scotland to something bigger). The fact is that if the Danish league was as poor as some ppl seem to think, then we would not even have a thread about Hutchinson being wanted by several foreign teams from the top 5 leagues, because then Danish league players would not attract more attention from abroad than the SPL. Fortunately, it is so that much more Danish league players get sold in each and every single transfer window to bigger clubs abroad, than it is the case for the Scottish PL or just about every other average league in Europe. The reason for this is obvious. And if it was not so, then ther would have been no Agger moving to Liverpool, Elmander to Toulouse, or in this transfer window, Lars Jacobsen to FC Nürnberg, Heath Pearce to Hansa Rostock, Kristian Bak Nielsen to Heerenveen, Tobias Linderoth to Galatasaray, Dennis Sørensen to Energie Cottbus... and so forth. This is also why Hutchinson is not desperate to move abroad as quickly as posible. He knows that if he doesnt move right now, then the interest from aborad will still be there and he will still be getting offers in 6 month or a year from now. You do not need to escape the Danish league in time. If you got the needed quality you will keep getting offers from the big leagues year after year and also get sold in the end. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Why does this "discussion" about Denmark Superligaen always happen regardless of the forum? Because ppl often seem to think of the Danish league as a very poor "one-team" league that you need to "escape" from as quickly as possible when you can. which it is quite ridiculous. The superliga is infact better than the Scottish PL if you look at the all-over technical level and at how may teams that would be able to make it in the Bundesliga, but then most ppl rate the SPL as being better because they think of Celtic and Rangers past results in Europe. Hutchinson on the other hand got it right when he says no to a move to Celtic and Rangers, because the SPL is "dead" (not only thinking of the general level, but also no doubt of his chances of moving from Scotland to something bigger). The fact is that if the Danish league was as poor as some ppl seem to think, then we would not even have a thread about Hutchinson being wanted by several foreign teams from the top 5 leagues, because then Danish league players would not attract more attention from abroad than the SPL. Fortunately, it is so that much more Danish league players get sold in each and every single transfer window to bigger clubs abroad, than it is the case for the Scottish PL or just about every other average league in Europe. The reason for this is obvious. And if it was not so, then ther would have been no Agger moving to Liverpool, Elmander to Toulouse, or in this transfer window, Lars Jacobsen to FC Nürnberg, Heath Pearce to Hansa Rostock, Kristian Bak Nielsen to Heerenveen, Tobias Linderoth to Galatasaray, Dennis Sørensen to Energie Cottbus... and so forth. This is also why Hutchinson is not desperate to move abroad as quickly as posible. He knows that if he doesnt move right now, then the interest from aborad will still be there and he will still be getting offers in 6 month or a year from now. You do not need to escape the Danish league in time. If you got the needed quality you will keep getting offers from the big leagues year after year and also get sold in the end. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan "Guaranteed" to at least make the UEFA Cup (who cares?!) but navigating through two rounds of Champions League qualifying as an unseeded club is far from a given. Anything less than the Champions League group stage is not worth Atiba's time. How picky are we getting when playing in the Uefa Cup "is not worth someone's time"? Geez. He has only been at Kopenhavn for 1 year. It was a very successful year both domestically and in Europe. Even if he just plays in the Uefa Cup, the team might have a longer run in Europe where he might get the chance to show himself off to clubs like AZ Alkmar and Sevilla. Give him one more year to prove himself and we can have this argument again next summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08And I like Mikkel Thygessen optimism with Fc Midjiland so called better than Monchengladbach but they are a relegation team in Germany. Thygesen is no optimist. He just discovered that he had made a terribel career mistake by making a quick move to Monchengladbach last season, so he returned to Denmark as quickly as possible (for the same transfer fee he was sold for btw.) You do not want Hutchinson to do the same kind of mistake just to move to a bigger league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Your a big joke Ceres. The Danish league is better than the Scottish....lol Scotland has 2 major clubs and Denmark has 1 average club. That's all those 2 nations have to offer as the rest is crap. The Danish league is alright for unknown players from other continents but the top signings need to escape quickly indeed. If they adapt well in Euro football like Atiba has done you just need to get to a higher level. Who can challenge Atiba to be a better player...?? There are very little good players like Atiba in the Danish league and he's playing for the only decent team in the nation. And he is one of the best players of that team as well. In Germany , Holland , France , England are more than enough good teams and definately world class players to compete with. Name 3 world-class players in Denmark..???? It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubuntu Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Elmander is a good why it's better to move, he was one of the revelation last year in France and I think France could be a good move for him because players from scandinavia have a some succes there for example: Kahlenberg, Kallstrom link to Valencia, Tainio, Isaksson. If he wants to move he must find a better league, not Scotland! but I don't think it's that urgent to move now, anyway. By the way in the second qualifying round FC København will play against Beitar Jerusalem FC, so if Hutchinson is still there, good trip in Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I have to agree with Ceres, that from top to bottom, the Danish league is probably better than the Scottish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan "Guaranteed" to at least make the UEFA Cup (who cares?!) but navigating through two rounds of Champions League qualifying as an unseeded club is far from a given. Anything less than the Champions League group stage is not worth Atiba's time. Come on, even if they fail to make it to the UCL group stage they'll still be in the UEFA Cup. If a deal can't be hashed out it's not like playing for FCK is a gigantic waste of his time. There'll be some meaningful games this fall and he'll have a chance in the next 12 months to make a move to a larger club in a larger league. Just to clear the air, the article in french states that Toulouse never made a bid. They inquired and would have made a bid if the asking price wasn't so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 One of possible candidates for Hutch was also Werder Bremen. Although there were no official talks or negiotiations, I want to bring it up for discussion again Yesterday in a friendly game german international Torsten Frings sustained a cruciate rupture and will miss the first half of the campaign. As he is the key player of Bremen, I can not imagine that the club will not reocupy this position. So Atiba could be one of the candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Come on, even if they fail to make it to the UCL group stage they'll still be in the UEFA Cup. If a deal can't be hashed out it's not like playing for FCK is a gigantic waste of his time. There'll be some meaningful games this fall and he'll have a chance in the next 12 months to make a move to a larger club in a larger league. Just to clear the air, the article in french states that Toulouse never made a bid. They inquired and would have made a bid if the asking price wasn't so high. You're not allowed into the Uefa Cup if you lose in the 2nd Qualifing round so FCK need to beat Jerusalem over 2 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 Your a big joke Ceres. The Danish league is better than the Scottish....lol Scotland has 2 major clubs and Denmark has 1 average club. That's all those 2 nations have to offer as the rest is crap. Well, FCK did not impress when they eliminated Ajax, but they later proved to be totally on pair with Celtic in the CL group stage games and I belive Celtic clearly is better than Rangers at the moment. Odense eliminated Herta Berlin, clearly were better than Heerenveen and also were heading for a win against Lens if not for a lucky punch goal to the French at the very end of the match. Brøndby eliminated Schalke 04 a few years ago and also reached the UEFA cup group stage in 2005/06 before they sold Elmander, Agger and Kahlenberg and had to start over this past season. Otherwise Danish teams usually get passed the qualifying rounds, but as unseeded end up losing in the main tournament of the UEFA cup, while the Scottish teams (besides Celtic and Rangers) usually get eliminated straight away in the Intertoto and UEFA cup by teams from Finland, Iceland, Ireland (and Denmark for that matter), despite the Scottish teams being seeded, which clearly support my point that the Danish league is better than the Scottish PL. In other words, by looking at Intertoto and EC results the past 4 years, I agree that the SPL is crap, while the Danish league is fairly mediocre, but the teams being on pair with many of the average teams you find in the German, Belgium and Dutch League (not at all impressed by the way Heerenveen were totally dismantled and lucky to escape a much bigger defeat, when they lost 0-2 at home to Odense). If you look at the EC results between danish an German teams last season, then it was 1 win and two draws to each, while the Danish vs. Dutch results is not something the Dutch [] want to remember. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Come on Ceres, you are highly over-rating the other Danish teams. The reason that Scotland is ranked higher than Denmark (10th vs 21st) is because their teams simply performed better. Seeding can't be used as an excuse (Romania has shown us that). Just take a look at this years results in the UEFA Cup: OB could only muster a 0-0 tie with Irish club St. Patrick's Athletic, and Midtjylland lost 3-2 to Keflavik of Iceland. Any league that aspires to greatness should have had its clubs easily handle both of those teams. That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that FCK will make the CL 3rd qualifying round, barring a large upset. There is no shame in playing in the UEFA Cup for Atiba. But if FCK manages to miss some of the big guns in the draw, they could sneak into the Group Stage again. Also, the Danish league is a lot better than the one in Sweden and is at least on par with Norway, two leagues that most posters on this board seem to love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ceres Well, FCK did not impress when they eliminated Ajax, but they later proved to be totally on pair with Celtic in the CL group stage games and I belive Celtic clearly is better than Rangers at the moment. Odense eliminated Herta Berlin, clearly were better than Heerenveen and also were heading for a win against Lens if not for a lucky punch goal to the French at the very end of the match. Brøndby eliminated Schalke 04 a few years ago and also reached the UEFA cup group stage in 2005/06 before they sold Elmander, Agger and Kahlenberg and had to start over this past season. Otherwise Danish teams usually get passed the qualifying rounds, but as unseeded end up losing in the main tournament of the UEFA cup, while the Scottish teams (besides Celtic and Rangers) usually get eliminated straight away in the Intertoto and UEFA cup by teams from Finland, Iceland, Ireland (and Denmark for that matter), despite the Scottish teams being seeded, which clearly support my point that the Danish league is better than the Scottish PL. In other words, by looking at Intertoto and EC results the past 4 years, I agree that the SPL is crap, while the Danish league is fairly mediocre, but the teams being on pair with many of the average teams you find in the German, Belgium and Dutch League (not at all impressed by the way Heerenveen were totally dismantled and lucky to escape a much bigger defeat, when they lost 0-2 at home to Odense). If you look at the EC results between danish an German teams last season, then it was 1 win and two draws to each, while the Danish vs. Dutch results is not something the Dutch [] want to remember. . Ceres , your just full of **** and saying that the Danish are better than the Dutch is totally laughable. But let's look again at the results.... 2006/2007. No Danish team past all the group stages 2005/2006. No Danish team past all the group stages 2004/2005. No Danish team IN the group stages. 2003/2004. Best result a 3rd round of Brondby in Uefa Cup. 2002/2003. Only 1 team in 2nd round Uefa Cup 2001/2002. 2 teams in the 3rd round Uefa Cup. 2006/2007. PSV QF Champs , AZ QF Uefa Cup 2005/2006. 2 teams in 2nd Round Champs 2004/2005. PSV Semi's Champs , AZ Semi's Uefa Cup 2003/2004. PSV QF Uefa Cup 2002/2003. Ajax QF Champs 2001/2002. Feyenoord winners of Uefa Cup , PSV QF Uefa Cup I guess who's got the better league..?? Compare the results of the Danish League to the Scottish , German etc and you see the same. Being unseeded is not an excuse for poor results. You have to be a proper team to be seeded and Danish teams are crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 Ceres , your just full of **** and saying that the Danish are better than the Dutch is totally laughable. But let's look again at the results.... I don't think you are even reading what what Ceres is writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I don't think you are even reading what what Ceres is writing. I read it correctly but you cannot say that the danish league is stronger because so called head to heads are in favour of Denmark (which I seriously doubt it is). You can tell the league strength on how all of the nations team fare in the European cups against all teams , instead to comparing head to heads. It would have been better if I had put this up in my earlier post but I didnt come to think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Considering there are quality Danish players leaving the league and walking comfortably into higher levels, it makes no sense to argue for the quality of Denmark teams on the basis of UEFA results. Especially since in an even quality league no one team will stand out, as is the case here. The quality is there in the football, the only question is money above all, to develop players, to keep them, to bring in top level foreigners. Scotland would be happy to have players of the quality that Denmark has produced in the last 15 years. That said, I still think that going to Toulouse would be a disaster of a decision, he has to go from here to a top league, unless he goes to a top club in a medium level league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Considering there are quality Danish players leaving the league and walking comfortably into higher levels, it makes no sense to argue for the quality of Denmark teams on the basis of UEFA results. Especially since in an even quality league no one team will stand out, as is the case here. The quality is there in the football, the only question is money above all, to develop players, to keep them, to bring in top level foreigners. Scotland would be happy to have players of the quality that Denmark has produced in the last 15 years. That said, I still think that going to Toulouse would be a disaster of a decision, he has to go from here to a top league, unless he goes to a top club in a medium level league. If the quality is in the football , why dont they perform better than other European teams..?? The best teams from Europe are in the CL / Uefa Cup so the best Danish teams as well. The fact that Danish teams dont reach QF/SF etc is because they have a poor league. Fc Kopenhagen is the stand out team in Denmark and they dont get very far either in Europe. And it's not all about money. Why do Romania do so well in Europe..?? They have nothing to spend on players and play mostly with at least 9 Romanians in the line-up. Even Bulgarian teams sometimes manage to reach a QF in Europe.... Even last year 2 Israeli teams were in the 3rd round and 1 managed to get to the last 16. You could keep making up excuses but if the Danish league would be strong there would be at least 1 team per year who has a realistic chance of a QF. But now they can't even get past a third round and a 3rd round spot is already considered special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 You're not allowed into the Uefa Cup if you lose in the 2nd Qualifing round so FCK need to beat Jerusalem over 2 matches. I am aware of that...the chances of them losing to Jerusalem is about the same as beating Ajax...oh, wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 I am aware of that...the chances of them losing to Jerusalem is about the same as beating Ajax...oh, wait Losing is a real possibility. Beitar have got a proper little team with players like Idan Tal (Bolton last year) , Toto Tamuz , Derek Boateng , Romulo and Christian Alvarez. It always depend on the away form of teams like that. If FCK can get a 2 goal advantage at home than they have good chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC76 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 quote:That said, I still think that going to Toulouse would be a disaster of a decision, he has to go from here to a top league, unless he goes to a top club in a medium level league. So you'd take a team like say Anderlecht or Olympiakos over a team like Toulouse then? Sounds alright to me. I guess it beats going to Wet Spam United Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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