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Did Linford do enough?


puskas

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Linford's comments seem to imply that he is in favour of some kind of implementation of video replay, but knows that FIFA is not, and has already given up that fight.

Why would the CSA not take a principled stand and make some kind of a measured statement, in the context not just of the recent fiasco, but of the experiences of past years, supporting some kind of investigation/pilot project, whatever, water it down as much as you want, into measures like video replay, that could improve the quality of officiating and at the same time minimise opportunities for any kind of on-field corruption or match fixing.

It shouldn't be wrong to say what we think. This is not the same thing as going 10 rounds of bare-knuckle boxing with Sepp Blatter (appealing as that might be to some).

What have we got to lose? What's he going to do - have us tossed out of the Gold Cup?

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quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Guys...

What would you have him do? Honestly. We all know how much good a protest would do. Although the call was clearly wrong, upon watching it again I've realized that it was a lot closer to being offside than I thought (although that depends on whether you believe the American purposely played the ball or whether it deflected off him).

I think it's pretty clear that Atiba was on-side & that the American deliberately headed the ball. It came from too far away & with not enough pace on it for anyone to seriously that it rocketed off Onweyu's head accidentally. And you can clearly see him intentionally moving his head to the ball. In other words, it was a clear header/back pass. The only American fans who are claiming this are the extreme homers with an insecurity problem, because they'd like to believe their team won completely legitimately.

But sadly I think you are right, an appeal wouldn't do anything because they would say the whistle blew before the ball went in & would deny an appeal on that basis, if nothing else.

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What Colin seems to be missing is that the point of the protest is not to overturn the call. That's done, the final is tomorrow. The point of a protest is to let the fans, the players, the rest of CONCACAF and the whole rest of FIFA that whe are pissed off and we have good reason to be.

He needs to show the players and the fans he cares. THAT will get the team to "come together". The whole world already thinks Canadians are "nice polite pushovers" and this does nothing to keep the rest of CONCACAF from walking all over us in the future. The other post about what would've happend if that goal was called off for Mexico in Azteca raises a good point. You think that ref would've made that call in that situation? No... because he would've feared for his life. If the fans didn't get him, the Mexican officials would've had to be physically restrained. Instead we shrug and so "oh, well..."

Players and coaches get red cards and suspensions... presidents don't. He's pretty much the only one who can chuck a water bottle on to the pitch (figuratively) and not cost the team a key player in a WCQ match.

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I agree with the others that Linford needed to make a strong statement that embarrasses CONCACAF, Archundia and the Gold Cup organizers. In fact, he needed to say something so strong that it becomes a headline throughout North America and possibly even gets some European coverage. CONCACAF is not going to change on its own, it will only change if a light is shone on how it operates. We have nothing to lose by pissing them off. We are consistently getting screwed by the refs so if Linford pisses them off more and they decide to screw us again that is merely maintaining the status quo.

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Guys, I'm already convinced that with Colin Linford running the CSA, we are not going nowhere with his type poor leadership. We will remain at the bottom of the totem-poll or worst: the laughing stock of CONCACAF. Com'on, the man has proved himself that he's a whimp with NO fighting spirit. Do you want such an idiot like this to run the CSA??? Hell no. What we need is a kick-ass guy like Don Cherry that will stand-up for Canadian players. For this reason I'm waiting for the day that this goof decides for early retirement or quits.

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CONCACAF's OFFICIAL POST-GAME SHOW (http://www.youtube.com/concacaf) acknowledges and even breaks down the poor offside call.

There's people in CONCACAF who think a controversy like this is actually GOOD for the tournament. I'm pretty sure we all realize this is horrible for the credibility of the Gold Cup. There's a lot of American fans who know the game who remember times calls like these went against them...not in World Cups (which has happened), but Concacaf qualifiers before they became one of the "powers". They think it's still a load of crap that any team in CONCACAF has to put up with this.

Our qualification for 2010 is at risk if the CSA doesn't take a strong stand now. In any UEFA or CONEMBOL country, the National FA would have filed a formal protest...not to have the result overturned, but to have the officials scrutinized and denied an assignment to future matches. For example, The Italian Football Federation did this in 2002...I think we can see the results from 2006. Colin Linford's "Public Response" to this has hurt Canada, regardless of what his behind the scenes response has been.

Even Craig Forrest tonight said "We've been waiting two decades for CONCACAF referees to improve and it hasn't happened." It's time that we start demanding UEFA or top CONEMBOL officials for matches involving all of the teams in CONCACAF that participate in the group stage of WCQ and throughout the GC. I realize this means disqualifying Canadian officials from CONCACAF events for now, but until we can get FIFA to manage officials for each federation's events, it's the only way.

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quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

...Colin Linford's "Public Response" to this has hurt Canada, regardless of what his behind the scenes response has been...

For this reason I personally feel that Linford should step down. He has made things worst for Canada. His quality of leadership has demonstrated mediocrity. And this is certainly unacceptable.
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A protest, for the reasons cited by Gian-Luca, would certainly fail. All the same, as many have said, you don't file the protest to succeed. You file it to send a message. It's like a note on file for a problem employee. Until you have that documented history of things going wrong (officially documented), every incident that comes up can be looked at in isolation (again, officially).

By not filing a protest, when this happens again, CONCACAF can simply say that this hasn't happened before. And accoring to their files, it looks like it hasn't. If they have a file on this protest and ultimately rule that the protest couldn't stand becuase the US had stopped playing (and not because the referree was correct), then next time we have a documented pattern of behaviour. All the behind-closed-doors lobbying doesn't mean a thing, unless it's officially documented.

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I agree with the fact Linford must take a strong stand in order to show the players and fans that he is behind them.

This is my letter to Linford, I sent it to Dave Nutt as I could not find Linford's e-mail.

Dear Mr. Linford

As a longtime Canadian Men’s National Team fan, I was outraged by the offside decision of the referee during the Gold Cup semi-final game. In addition, a red card should have been given to Bocanegra for the reckless and dangerous challenge on De Guzman. These were tremendous errors that would never have occurred in a UEFA tournament, why should we have to put up with the terrible officiating in CONCACAF time and time again?

The CSA has no choice but to stand up for its players. An appeal/complaint should be filed not only with CONCACAF, but with FIFA.

As president of the CSA, Mr. Linford, you must vigorously challenge the decision and set a precedent that Canada WILL NOT be the door mat of CONCACAF.

As fans, we expect nothing less.

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No he hasn't done enough, the CSA has to be very loud and public in their protests, firstly because there is nothing to be gained by quiet back room protests and secondly the players have to know that their organization backs them.

Let's face it CONCACAF was never going to do anything about this situation. So the only thing to be gained by back room protests is some sort of advantage in some other area such as hosting a tournament or some such inducement. To accept that makes the CSA complicit in CONCACAF's dirty dealings. Better to be loudly calling for improvement than to be part of the mess that needs to be improved.

As well the players need to know that their organization is behind them, if you are JDG2 and you are trying to decide if you should play for Canada is the attitude of "these things happen" going to make you want to play for your country? How about Greg Sutton who may have lost his season? How many of the players are going to be so keen to put their careers on the line for an organization that apparantly doesn't give a damn.

Finally the other countries and refs need to know that we hold a grudge. Canada should do everything in its power to make sure that Arruchiunda(sp?) never refs a major international event again. To miss a call happens, to miss three serious game changing calls in two games is - at a minimum - incompetence. Nothing wrong with alerting everyone within hearing distance about that fact. That he sucessfully reffed the quarterfinals in Germany merely means that they were lucky that day. Besides if the other refs know that there are consequences to blowing a call in a game involving Canada maybe they will try to do better.

Linford's don't rock the boat attitude speaks of a fear that CONCACAF can hurt them in some other way, it is not leadership, it is the actions of a timid middle manager.

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I think Linfords been around long enough to know what the deal is in concacaf. its a tough situation, very different from say south america, where the countries get together to scratch eachothers back through ref assignments from their countries or refs just getting bribed. In concacaf, its corruption from the top down. Linford said there is no point, and i agree, theres no point to complaining and having it on file bc there probably is no file, no nothing. Not to mention Warner is 100% protected by FIFA as shown with being let off the hook even tho he got caught red handed in his world cup $ corruption, where others in the same situation were fired- no point in complaining there either.

Theres nothing to do, why waste time complaining, just pick yourself up, and keep going.

Linford should have said more in the press, but with the situation being what it is, he is not the one to blame, he shouldnt be our scapegoat.

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Fair enough. No one in CONCACAF cares. My hope is and remains that FIFA might intervene under media pressure to avoid embarassment at the WYC. If the CSA will not protest, then it is up to us to do so. Unfurl a protest banner at the games, picket the CSA office in Ottawa, whatever. The world media will be here, and will cover this (even while the Canadian media is busy reporting on the blue jays and championship poker).

The other major strategy is to keep the heat on the CSA until they are embarassed into demanding UEFA refs for our next WCQ cycle. We can do this through the media and also by direct protests which will in turn be covered by the media.

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Guest Jeffery S.

No way the CSA would do a formal protest with Warner having gifted them the u-20 World Cup. Are you guys politically naive? We are in the Warner camp, didn't you know?

The only value of a statement by Linford is for us, and the players and technical staff. An open statement criticising the decision and expressing outrage. That has no legal value, but it gets on record.

Linford seemed to want to start so well, and we have given him so much leeway and benefit of the doubt, and he is squandering it away so quickly. C'mon Colin, didn't you know we were with you, you had us on your side, all you had to do was keep a few promises and not be so weak and lame.

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One thing that occured to me was that even if Linford didn't file a formal protest with CONCACAF or FIFA he should be screaming bloody murder in every Canadian news media outlet that will listen to him.

Media types love controversy and would surely pick up on a theme of "Canada got SCREWED". Getting people interested and (gasp!) TALKING about Canadian soccer is a GOOD thing - especially with the incredible segway into the U20 World Cup.

This point was illustrated to me when (wonder of wonders) my co-worker actually asked me about the game, what happened, and wanted to see some highlights. Now, he's a huge soccer fan... who's only interested in Barcelona... or when Spain or Brazil play in the World Cup. He ridicules me all the time for being a supporter of the Canadian team.... and HE's asking me about the game.

There's no such thing as bad press...

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quote:Originally posted by strobe_z

This point was illustrated to me when (wonder of wonders) my co-worker actually asked me about the game, what happened, and wanted to see some highlights. Now, he's a huge soccer fan... who's only interested in Barcelona... or when Spain or Brazil play in the World Cup. He ridicules me all the time for being a supporter of the Canadian team.... and HE's asking me about the game.

There's no such thing as bad press...

Similarly, my wife and I were at a wedding reception last Saturday and

when the topic of discussion became soccer, they were asking me about

THE GAME and the blown call. And these weren't soccer fanatics, but

they even heard the CBC interview with JdJ2's dad!

As for the Linford issue, I think with all the publicity with

the U20s and the CSA coaching controversies, he should have publicly

protested, even it were just for PR purposes, regardless of the

result.

As for him resigning, I don't think he should, for reasons of

sanity and the fact that I would fear who would replace him.

Probably a guy more out of touch than currently. (And the CSA

is already in such disarray.):(

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quote:Originally posted by Ivan

Huh? Interview with JDG2's dad? Is that posted or summarized somewhere?

I never heard it personally, but these guys were talking about it.

Also there was a thread on this, as johntv was with the De Guzmans

when the CBC was filming or something.

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Why are all CONCACAF nations created equal when it comes to officials, but not when it comes to calls ? There have been too many years of this; usually it is Honduras (I can think of three times in WC qualifying alone).

I agree we have to make a tougher stand. Warner loathes us anyways. Next time out we will get a one eyed ref from St. Kitts and Nevis.

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quote:Originally posted by redhat

I never heard it personally, but these guys were talking about it.

Also there was a thread on this, as johntv was with the De Guzmans

when the CBC was filming or something.

It was on the Current Wednesday, June 20.

You can find the Real Audio download of that segment here:

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/media/200706/20070620thecurrent_sec2.ram

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quote:Originally posted by hectorj

Next time out we will get a one eyed ref from St. Kitts and Nevis.

Wow....a one eyed ref would be an improvement, but I believe it costs more than a Mexican ref that is only half biased. Either way, the CSA can't afford it.

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My statement from the women's forum edited applies to this as well.

The word "conspiracy" only demonstrates that the people who use it generally are naive, weak people who cant handle the truth and wouldn't defend themselves or anyone else. Quite similar to what we get from Colin and the CSA now. Look face the facts there has been corruption in every level of all sports high and low worldwide. Referees,directors and owners become greedy or corrupt. And unfortunately you get some that are just plain not able or incompetent to do their job.

Yes, on the other hand their are nut jobs and people claiming conspiracies to a ridiculous point. You have to be able to decipher. Anyone with any common sense will defend themselves and ensure that they have been treated fairly. Anyone who will not and cries "conspiracy" to hide their fear is not someone I want walking beside me anywhere.

Look at the actual facts. Colin did not defend us. Pellerud, Kerfoot and the CSA all participated in an extremely poor action. They all manipulated and ruined an excellent scenario with the women's team. Regardless if you think Hooper was at fault this should of been handled a millions times better than that.

Pipe was a disaster a lot of you defended him and called people who pointed out that he was incompetent "crazy" or contributing to a "conspiracy" theory. The fact is, you did not bring it up, you did not defend yourself or your team or our sport.The CSA has not presented a budget for years and you did not bring it up, you did not question it.

The fact is the CSA has not presented a budget, this is unacceptable and a actual fact of incompetence. As you can clearly see how can you continue to discuss and interact with an organization that does not present a budget.

One idea of whatever is plausible or feasible in this vein is, for all soccer organizations in Canada withhold all of their fees in an escrow account until the budget is accounted for and the people responsible are removed for not presenting one.

This is not a time to splinter and debate over these smaller petty issues but to unite and defend our sport in the serious issues that exist.

Now Colin is continuing in the same pattern and you need to see this as a time to change and defend our sport.

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