Grizzly Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Juby hmmmm, although it wouldn't be much of a perk, it would look to be a perk to newbies if I this was the only site where you could download download my canada game highlight packs, I'm guessing alot of people here are like me; likes the idea of contributing a bit but doesn't really care to get perks and whatnot, if the downloads were locked in a specific sub forum, people might think theres more there then there is on youtube (maybe I could make a guadalope comp to be original v board material and other losses, be more of a historical archive then a promotional campaign which is what my youtube is. anyway, i think the best thing to do is to keep the main forum free, and try and convince people it's the **** to be a double double platinum excelsior first class member (ahaha) ohhhh and I'd need someone to help me out with a mail option (no credit cards) I think here we would get into copyright problems. In fact, I think this highlights one of the main problems of incorporating in that we would be much more liable to litigation for a variety of reasons from copyright of videos and articles on the forum to people posting defamatory statements on the forum. If we incorporate we would have to be much more careful about how we run and moderate the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Since we now have a national soccer stadium, I am perhaps foolishly expecting some more games and taking a guess where those games might be. We the V's need to own that stadium the way the RPB and U-S do. That should be our goal, one section at a time, and to some extent those groups have paved the way for us. We need to have a section people want to be in, and grow it from there. One section a time, over years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 Don't lock up anything Don't charge anything But definitely incorporate. This needs to be an official organization to go further, and we have a long way to go. WCQ is next year and we want Canada home games. We need a contract with the CSA and ticketmaster to give us a proper supporters section at BMO and capitalize on the RPB and U-Sector. As an official organization we will find money, we don't need to charge for memberships. People will donate to an actual organization. Agree 100%! I'm also very curious as to how other national supporters groups operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 Don't lock up anything Don't charge anything But definitely incorporate. This needs to be an official organization to go further, and we have a long way to go. WCQ is next year and we want Canada home games. We need a contract with the CSA and ticketmaster to give us a proper supporters section at BMO and capitalize on the RPB and U-Sector. As an official organization we will find money, we don't need to charge for memberships. People will donate to an actual organization. Agree 100%! I'm also very curious as to how other national supporters groups operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by nolando 60 is probably a good guess as to how many of us our real regulars around here - I am damn proud to be one of them, but doesn't that number alone just say it all? Not sure what makes a "regular", but I just checked and saw that within the last week, about 200 different users made a post; about 90 posters either today or yesterday. Of course not all of those would be willing to donate, but if you include the mostly-silent lurkers (I'm one of those, I guess), then I'd guess the number of contributors / paying members could easily reach three figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by nolando 60 is probably a good guess as to how many of us our real regulars around here - I am damn proud to be one of them, but doesn't that number alone just say it all? Not sure what makes a "regular", but I just checked and saw that within the last week, about 200 different users made a post; about 90 posters either today or yesterday. Of course not all of those would be willing to donate, but if you include the mostly-silent lurkers (I'm one of those, I guess), then I'd guess the number of contributors / paying members could easily reach three figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I think here we would get into copyright problems. In fact, I think this highlights one of the main problems of incorporating in that we would be much more liable to litigation for a variety of reasons from copyright of videos and articles on the forum to people posting defamatory statements on the forum. If we incorporate we would have to be much more careful about how we run and moderate the forum. I don't agree that we would be more liable to litigation. I think we would face the same amount of liability, but the only difference is that the liability won't be assumed by one individual, as is currently the case. It's not a case of whether Jarrek (Or anyone else for that matter) is ok with assuming the liability. It's just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I think the first step is for some people to sit down and write a mission statement. This process would go a long way toward deciding whether becoming an official organisation is worth its perils. If the mission is to run a message board and show up at matches, I really don't think it's necessary to "incorporate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadasBest Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Posted May 19th on Sams Army: http://www.sams-army.com/index.php?Mlist=content_full&Article_id=212 Dear Sam's Army Supporters and Friends: Over the coming weeks, Sam's Army is going to re-launch several aspects of the club that have been dormant for a while. All is being done to achieve the "Sea of Red" we have been watching grow over the years....10 years to be exact! First, there has been a small group of individuals working to organize and incorporate Sam's Army as a not for profit entity. This will legitimize the doings of the group and will enable Sam's Army to grow on a national basis with a real infrastructure. From game tickets to game day events, this status will help to have all Sam's Army functions run better than they have in the past. Second, there will be a new paid membership available for Sammers. Benefits will include discounts on Sam's Army merchandise, discounts on certain game tickets, and we are in the process of working with retailers where by paid members will receive discounts when purchasing at those friendly retailers. Third, there is going to be a re-launch of Sam's Army Gear. We hope to have a survey up soon on what you would like to see in terms of Sam's Army Gear. Fourth, we are going to work on keeping the web site fresh. With new stories/articles, we will continue to utilize the web site as the main format to get information to you about Sam's Army and soccer in general. We are excited about this new chapter in the development and growth of Sam's Army. It has taken us ten years to get here and we hope this will help the group be around for another 110!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 We the V's need to own that stadium the way the RPB and U-S do. The vast majority of the Toronto-area Voyageurs (past and present) are members of the U-Sector, and as such we hold supporting the national teams in very high regard. I'd invite the Voyageurs to join us in 113/114 for national team matches at BMO Field in the future, as we've already consolidated a solid block of vocal, pro-Canada support in that area of the stadium. At the Argentina-Canada U20 friendly last month, we even deferred our regular banner space to the large "Super Canucks" banner brought by Vancouver Fan that has made the rounds across the country. It really doesn't make sense to create yet another section in the stadium devoted to the V's when most of us in the GTA will be in 113 anyways (U20 WC notwithstanding, as FIFA/CSA/Ticketmaster really screwed the pooch on that one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 If it helps the Voyageurs site to incorporate as a non-profit entity, I'd pay. I don't EXPECT some members to agree to pay anything, but since running the site costs money and there are advantages to having the NPC status, we will have to come to some realization that the costs have to be covered somewhat. And if you want the CSA, the media, or the governing sports bodies to take us seriously, well, we have to be an official ORGANIZATION. This is not a slight against anybody, but the reality is, if you're willing to pay for a $35 MLS ticket, or spend $30 for cellular service, or pay an extra $10 for GolTV/FSWC digital package ... a $10 or so member/user fee is reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Some of us are jumping way ahead of the game with what-ifs and predictions. All of that will be taken care in our Bylaws. So the first step is for someone to write a draft Constitution, which is very brief and just states our aims. Then the same person will draft our operating Bylaws, which for starters can also be very brief. There are numerous examples. We can then start making suggestions and changes to these drafts, the same way we did with our letter to the media. I think that worked well. The main benefit of incorporating is that you remove the risk of being personally liable for some wrongdoing. Right now any of us can be sued and lose your savings, your car, your house, your boat, etc. The other benefit is that we can carry out our aims better and be recognized. Somebody mentioned about giving receipts for tax purposes. That is not quite right. We can certainly give receipts but for the person paying to use that as a tax deduction as a donation, we would need to be registered with Revenue Canada as a Charitable Organization and given a Charitable number. This is a complex process with very strict rules and reporting. We would not qualified either. In summary I vote YES for registering as a not-for-profit society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 Since we now have a national soccer stadium, I am perhaps foolishly expecting some more games and taking a guess where those games might be. We the V's need to own that stadium the way the RPB and U-S do. That should be our goal, one section at a time, and to some extent those groups have paved the way for us. We need to have a section people want to be in, and grow it from there. One section a time, over years. What does this have to do with incorporating though? To my knowledge neither U-sector nor RPB are incorporated. I think incorporting only makes sense if we want to become a lobby group. I would prefer to remain a supporters group and I don't see the benefit of incorporating if that remains our aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I'm all in boys. The two suggestions I would make are to 1) keep the forum accessible to all regardless if they're paid members or not and 2) set up the official structure (directors) and resposnibilities before incorporating to make sure we have enough active people managing the organization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by redhat This is not a slight against anybody, but the reality is, if you're willing to pay for a $35 MLS ticket, or spend $30 for cellular service, or pay an extra $10 for GolTV/FSWC digital package ... a $10 or so member/user fee is reasonable. That is the rational argument for user fees, in reality they are a serious impediment. Donations & sponsorship & product sales will be the only way to raise money for nefarious projects of doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Rudi The vast majority of the Toronto-area Voyageurs (past and present) are members of the U-Sector, and as such we hold supporting the national teams in very high regard. I'd invite the Voyageurs to join us in 113/114 for national team matches at BMO Field in the future, as we've already consolidated a solid block of vocal, pro-Canada support in that area of the stadium. At the Argentina-Canada U20 friendly last month, we even deferred our regular banner space to the large "Super Canucks" banner brought by Vancouver Fan that has made the rounds across the country. It really doesn't make sense to create yet another section in the stadium devoted to the V's when most of us in the GTA will be in 113 anyways (U20 WC notwithstanding, as FIFA/CSA/Ticketmaster really screwed the pooch on that one). I am not suggesting we create a new section, but using the ones of RPB and US. I want an organization that can guarantee you guys get your seats for every Canada game in Toronto, and work in the long term to expand it. No screw ups on the part of the CSA and Ticketmaster. I want the V's to own the entire south end of BMO for every Canada game. Lets force all the fan boys with the identity crisis into the expensive seats and make them pay for our home games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly What does this have to do with incorporating though? To my knowledge neither U-sector nor RPB are incorporated. I think incorporting only makes sense if we want to become a lobby group. I would prefer to remain a supporters group and I don't see the benefit of incorporating if that remains our aim. Both these groups have a great relationship with a well run organization that respects them. We have to deal with the dynamic duo (CSA & TM) that seems to be happy to leave people lined up 45 minutes into the start of a game outside the stadium and have no one get fired. There is no way even the densest bureaucrat in the CSA cannot look at TFC and have enough neurons fire to say "supporters group good". God help us if they decide to do it themselves. But to deal with the CSA and provincial associations we need to be an organization with a structure these groups can actually contact when organizing and event or game. This should help us avoid "bannergate" and similar problems. This is not by any means intended to be a complete explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 The bylaws can easy specify the different classes of membership. I.e. Life members, honorary members, regular members and friends of the Voyageurs Incorporated. Friends will participate like anyone else except they will not pay any annual fee and have no voting rights. This will accommodate all who are pro and against incorporation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 If we were incorporated, our President, or spokesperson or Chairman or whaterver we decide to call him would be able to fire off a letter tonight to all media outlets regarding the Canada-USA game. In fact, it almost makes sense to have a sample letter (fill-in-the-blanks style) ready to go. You know we'll get screwed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 If we were incorporated, our President, or spokesperson or Chairman or whaterver we decide to call him would be able to fire off a letter tonight to all media outlets regarding the Canada-USA game. In fact, it almost makes sense to have a sample letter (fill-in-the-blanks style) ready to go. You know we'll get screwed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by The Ref The bylaws can easy specify the different classes of membership. I.e. Life members, honorary members, regular members and friends of the Voyageurs Incorporated. Friends will participate like anyone else except they will not pay any annual fee and have no voting rights. This will accommodate all who are pro and against incorporation. I like the idea. And after tonight I say we really need to get something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 Don't lock up anything Don't charge anything But definitely incorporate. This needs to be an official organization to go further, and we have a long way to go. WCQ is next year and we want Canada home games. We need a contract with the CSA and ticketmaster to give us a proper supporters section at BMO and capitalize on the RPB and U-Sector. As an official organization we will find money, we don't need to charge for memberships. People will donate to an actual organization. I think this would be the way to go. Keep the information free but maybe have a "Voyageur Plus" membership sceme that would have connections with the CSA to get a section of tickets to all Canada games Home and Away. I for one am considering going to all the WCQ this time round, and would love something like this. If we could line up with the CSA to get a big section for Home games, and a smaller group together for all the away games. Maybe have it so membership is capped at a certain amount. Kind of how "England Fan" works now. Use the money to fund the website, banners, etc. As I said I'd love to join. I'm a programmer by trade and would be more than happy to help with any software we might need. (For instance a ticket database application or whatever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 OK guys let's get this going highly time etc. We have a voice and that voice has to be heard and be meaningful and yes we help shape the future of soccer by consensus and at least we have a say.Some of you guys thought you had but not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 OK guys let's get this going highly time etc. We have a voice and that voice has to be heard and be meaningful and yes we help shape the future of soccer by consensus and at least we have a say.Some of you guys thought you had but not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 This is a good idea and it's about time. I really don't see how a bit of organization can hurt. Even if the elected "leader" doesn't represent all our views on what brand gloves Onstad should wear when he hits the golf course or if DeRo looks better with short hair, having one email address represent the group can put us directly in touch with the red tapers in charge and hopefully get some positive fan action going on like what speedmonk's describing. Are there any mods in favour of this who could get something organized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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