Gordon Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 As posted by CanuckFan (Ed) on Bigsoccer: Also reports today out of Denmark that both VfB Stuttgart or Werder Bremen (top clubs in the Bundesliga 1) are eager to sign Atiba Hutchinson. Either club would be a great opportunity for Atiba (looking at a transfer fee of 5 to 6 million euros). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelownaguy Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 would love to see it happen. I think Atiba will prove to a lot of us at this Gold Cup that he is our top all around player. (solid defender but shows a lot of skill when he pushes the ball forward) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I would love to see Hutchinson and Stalteri at Werder Bremen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 What we've heard over and over since he's signed at FCK is that FCK is not a "selling" club, and actually one of the richest in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC76 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 lol Daniel. I wouldn't be surprised if København didn't let him go, though. He's that damn good. I heard from a friend of mine in the Netherlands that Dutch contenders AZ Alkmaar are also interested. I would go nuts though, if Atiba signed with Werder. I LOVE WERDER! Wouldn't be crying if he went to VfB, either. Next thing you know we'll be hearing that Martin "I Love Canadians" Jol wants him in the lilywhite of Spurs [] quote:I would love to see Hutchinson and Stalteri at Werder Bremen. I would love to see those same two at the White Hart Lane lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Reading in the German press, Kopenhagen's manager has confirmed interest from both Bremen and Stuttgart but no concrete offer as of yet. Apparently Glascow Rangers made a bid for him at the winter break but Hutchinson turned it down because the Scottish league is "dead" and he didn't want to play in this league but he is interested in playing in the Bundesliga. 5.4 million Euros is being discussed as a possible transfer fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Reading in the German press, Kopenhagen's manager has confirmed interest from both Bremen and Stuttgart but no concrete offer as of yet. Apparently Glascow Rangers made a bid for him at the winter break but Hutchinson turned it down because the Scottish league is "dead" and he didn't want to play in this league but he is interested in playing in the Bundesliga. 5.4 million Euros is being discussed as a possible transfer fee. Quite right, some German teams seem interested, but ther are no negotiations going on... and to be honest, then German teams usually do not want to pay transfer fees in the area of 5-6 million €... FCK are heading for an expected turnover of more than €100 million that most surely will make them enter the list of the top 20 richest clubs in the world this season, they have also made a ½-season Net Profit of more than €10 million, so I'm sure ther is not going to be any negotiations over the transfer fee... FCK are going to put a price tag on Atiba and then foreign clubs can 'take it or leave it'. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 What is your source for this €100 million turnover figure? Given the Danish league do not have a lucrative satellite contract similar to that enjoyed by Premiership clubs (worth noting even the bottom placed Premiership team will be getting close to €100 million for TV money alone so top 20 is unlikely on that basis) and FC Kobenhaven average similar crowds to Toronto FC that seems somewhat unlikely to me. It is worth noting that the half year profit you mention would probably have been based on their one off participation in the Champions League group stages, which probably wasn't budgeted for. Given Denmark are ranked 21st in the UEFA country coefficients two qualifying rounds have to be negotiated for that to be repeated next season. The fact is Denmark is even more of a backwater than Scotland who are ranked 10th. The only reason FC Kobenhaven can cash in on Hutchinson in a big way is that he signed a 4-1/2 year contract in January 2006 so they don't have to worry about losing him for nothing on a Bosman at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I can't vouch for any exact figures but I do know they made a bundle merchandising all over europe this year from their champions league campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard What is your source for this €100 million turnover figure? Given the Danish league do not have a lucrative satellite contract similar to that enjoyed by Premiership clubs (worth noting even the bottom placed Premiership team will be getting close to €100 million for TV money alone so top 20 is unlikely on that basis) and FC Kobenhaven average similar crowds to Toronto FC that seems somewhat unlikely to me. It is worth noting that the half year profit you mention would probably have been based on their one off participation in the Champions League group stages, which probably wasn't budgeted for. Given Denmark are ranked 21st in the UEFA country coefficients two qualifying rounds have to be negotiated for that to be repeated next season. The fact is Denmark is even more of a backwater than Scotland who are ranked 10th. The only reason FC Kobenhaven can cash in on Hutchinson in a big way is that he signed a 4-1/2 year contract in January 2006 so they don't have to worry about losing him for nothing on a Bosman at this point. Ceres has posted a few times on this subject quoting and linking reputable sources on this site and, I believe, Bigsoccer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 The club has invested their income wisely so that they have a renewable source of income apart from the team. FCK runs a bunch of non-soccer properties inlcuding real estate, fitness centre and some other stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 For a club's finances, you have to look at a number of different things. One consideration, on the Deloitte site with their yearly report, is income, and its breakdown. Another is what the club is worth, where you build in property, fixed assets, potential sale value of players. Another way to judge is by budget. Read after a search that the budget is 100 million, with a surplus of 20, and assets of 500 million. They play handball and are getting into ice hockey I think. Those are astronomical figures for a club of that nature, so I think they are either dedicating it to other things than football, or have not decided to spend to their limit yet. As they certainly need stronger players to compete in Champions next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 as much as I want to see atiba at a better club it seems like a poor choice on Kobenhaven's part to sell him for 5 or 6 million euros, this is because I'd bet atiba is better then anyone FCK could get for 5 or 6 million(mostly because FCK would probably have to significantly overpay to bring in some serious developed and peaking talent). It might be a good move if they invested it in young guys but thats about all I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 In big picture terms they can't stand in his way if they get a decent offer that is a step upwards as they won't want to get a reputation with agents as being difficult that way as it could hinder future signings. They obviously accepted the Rangers bid in the last transfer window, if the player got the chance to reject it, so it would be surprising if they didn't accept sensible offers from clubs like Werder Bremen or VfB Stuttgart. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2b4gdk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard What is your source for this €100 million turnover figure? Given the Danish league do not have a lucrative satellite contract similar to that enjoyed by Premiership clubs (worth noting even the bottom placed Premiership team will be getting close to €100 million for TV money alone so top 20 is unlikely on that basis) and FC Kobenhaven average similar crowds to Toronto FC that seems somewhat unlikely to me. I could link to their ½-season accounts as I have done before, but I think this is better, since it shows the FCK (PS&E) accounts several years back in time : Link Note that €1 is always just around DKK 7.45, so the the Net profits of DDK 78.254 million in the 2nd quarter of this 2006/07 season (at the bottom), is just a bit more than €10 million. Though I just noticed that the profits has dropped a bit in the 3rd quarter (probably because they have made an adjustment for the players they expect to sign in this transfer window), but the turnover has already reached DKK 745.6 million which is €100 million, with 1 quarter left of 2006/07.. quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard It is worth noting that the half year profit you mention would probably have been based on their one off participation in the Champions League group stages, which probably wasn't budgeted for. Given Denmark are ranked 21st in the UEFA country coefficients two qualifying rounds have to be negotiated for that to be repeated next season. You should notice in the turnovers from the past seasons, that FCK make quite a big Net profit every season, despite buying fairly expensive players and not having played CL ... DKK 37.757 million after taxes (around €5 million) in 2004/05, DKK 33.888 million (around €4.5 million) in 2005/06. But ofcause it is the participation in CL that will make them enter the list of the top 20 richest clubs in the world this season.. No doubt about it. quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard The fact is Denmark is even more of a backwater than Scotland who are ranked 10th. The only reason FC Kobenhaven can cash in on Hutchinson in a big way is that he signed a 4-1/2 year contract in January 2006 so they don't have to worry about losing him for nothing on a Bosman at this point. This is actually not true. The past four seasons 8 Scottish clubs have participated in the EC and only Celtic and Rangers have managed to get any kind of results against clubs from the top Leagues (Spain, England, Italy and Germany). Infact 4 of the 8 Scottish teams have been eliminated straight away by teams from Finland, Iceland, Ireland and Ukraine, while Hearts have produced some rather average results at best. No doubt Celtic and Rangers have proven their worth in Europe, but the rest of the Scottish league is not even of average European standard if you look at their results in Europe the past 4 years... Especially if we also look at the very poor Scottish results in the UEFA Intertoto tournament. As mentioned, then OB Odense finished 4 in the Danish league and managed to eliminate Herta Berlin in the UEFA cup (not to forget beating Heerenveen 2-0 away and btw also eliminating Hibernian from Scotland in the UEFA Intertoto Cup). Results that no Scottish team outside top 3 in the SPL have been able to match the past 4 years.. The UEFA league and team ranking system just favor leagues that only got a few top teams who alway qualify for the Europa Cups, while the more evenly matched leagues are punished in both the team and league ranking, because it is not the same teams who participate every season and therefore are bound to get a lower seeding over a 5-year period and draw much tougher opponents, which then again lead to fewer points and a poorer ranking. You could also say that when Danish (or Norwegian for that matter) teams progress, they usually do it despite of their poor seeding, while the average Scottish teams seem to get eliminated straight away despite a better seeding, which only makes the difference between top and bottom in the SPL stand out all the more clearly. It really says it all when you are seeded in Europe but still get eliminated straight away by teams from Iceland, Finland and Ireland.. I cant speak for Norway, but to compare, then ther has not been a single Danish team eliminated in Europe by a team from Iceland, Finland or Ireland since full-time professional soccer was introduced in Denmark. (well, actually ther has never in the history of the Europa Cups been a Danish team eliminated by a team from Iceland). . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. For a club's finances, you have to look at a number of different things. One consideration, on the Deloitte site with their yearly report, is income, and its breakdown. Another is what the club is worth, where you build in property, fixed assets, potential sale value of players. Another way to judge is by budget. Read after a search that the budget is 100 million, with a surplus of 20, and assets of 500 million. They play handball and are getting into ice hockey I think. Those are astronomical figures for a club of that nature, so I think they are either dedicating it to other things than football, or have not decided to spend to their limit yet. As they certainly need stronger players to compete in Champions next year. It should be noticed, that also the Barcelona turnover (used in the Deloitte ranking) include more than 10 other Sports.. So FCK is not really doing anything else than most of the other top teams.... Infact Lyon openly admit that they are trying to "copy" FCK in their ways of doing business (middle of the page, and in French) : http://sports.nouvelobs.com/fr/cmc/football/20074/lyon-le-grand-saut-_121761.html . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ceres It should be noticed, that also the Barcelona turnover (used in the Deloitte ranking) include more than 10 other Sports.. So FCK is not really doing anything else than most of the other top teams.... Infact Lyon openly admit that they are trying to "copy" FCK in their ways of doing business (middle of the page, and in French) : http://sports.nouvelobs.com/fr/cmc/football/20074/lyon-le-grand-saut-_121761.html . I'll look, as I have the annual report, but I think all other sports at Barça do not represent combined even 10% of football. Each has their own separate sponsor, and none of them except basketball, and possibly handball on a good year with European Cup games, even comes close to breaking even. Indeed many do not even try, I have free entrance into the futsal matches, all youth soccer matches including the B team, women's basketball, ice hockey, as a club member. So the gate for those is usually negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceres Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. I'll look, as I have the annual report, but I think all other sports at Barça do not represent combined even 10% of football. Each has their own separate sponsor, and none of them except basketball, and possibly handball on a good year with European Cup games, even comes close to breaking even. Indeed many do not even try, I have free entrance into the futsal matches, all youth soccer matches including the B team, women's basketball, ice hockey, as a club member. So the gate for those is usually negligible. Well, it's not like FCK made any profit on Team Handball either. But ofcause it makes the turnover seem bigger, just as it is the case for Barcelona. quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Given the Danish league do not have a lucrative satellite contract similar to that enjoyed by Premiership clubs (worth noting even the bottom placed Premiership team will be getting close to €100 million for TV money alone so top 20 is unlikely on that basis) Quote - "Last season's champions Chelsea earned £30.4 million from Premier League TV money while bottom club Sunderland earned £16.8 million. From next season, the champions can expect to bring in close to £50 million and the side finishing bottom around £26 million." - Unquote. http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport.cfm?id=96922007 In any case, I'm talking about this season... and I'm quite sure FCK is going to enter the list of the top 20 richest clubs in the world. this is how it looked at the end of last season : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 He should stay put unless he gets an offer from a top club in the big three, or possibly Germany or France. Werder or Stuttgart fit that description, but AZ and Anderlecht are not a big enough jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ceres This is actually not true..... The Euro coefficients don't lie, Ceres. Scotland is way ahead of Denmark on that. Rangers and Celtic are Scottish clubs so it doesn't make much sense to try to leave them out of the equation. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html 1 Spain 15.500 14.312 12.437 15.642 19.000 76.891 7 2 England 10.666 11.250 15.571 14.428 16.625 68.540 8 3 Italy 15.928 8.875 14.000 15.357 11.928 66.088 7 4 France 7.916 13.500 11.428 10.812 10.000 53.656 8 5 Germany 9.142 4.714 10.571 10.437 9.500 44.364 7 6 Portugal 10.750 10.250 8.166 5.500 8.083 42.749 6 7 Romania 2.166 4.333 5.500 16.833 11.333 40.165 3 8 Netherlands 6.166 5.416 12.000 7.583 8.214 39.379 7 9 Russia 3.625 5.875 10.000 10.000 6.625 36.125 4 10 Scotland 7.375 7.375 4.750 4.250 6.750 30.500 4 11 Ukraine 4.250 4.875 8.100 5.750 6.500 29.475 4 12 Belgium 6.875 5.875 6.125 5.500 4.700 29.075 5 13 Czech Republic 6.200 7.375 2.875 4.625 5.750 26.825 4 14 Turkey 4.666 6.500 5.375 4.000 6.100 26.641 5 15 Greece 7.166 4.166 6.166 3.333 4.666 25.497 6 16 Bulgaria 4.166 4.166 2.375 8.750 5.125 24.582 4 17 Switzerland 5.875 1.875 2.625 9.375 4.100 23.850 5 18 Norway 2.700 6.125 3.500 5.400 2.000 19.725 5 19 Israel 5.833 2.250 3.625 1.500 6.000 19.208 4 20 Serbia 4.833 4.500 4.250 3.250 2.125 18.958 4 21 Denmark 3.250 4.200 1.500 3.500 6.125 18.575 4 22 Austria 4.000 2.125 7.625 3.250 1.500 18.500 5 23 Poland 6.625 4.125 2.500 1.125 2.625 17.000 4 24 Hungary 3.166 4.833 4.166 1.000 1.000 14.165 3 25 Slovakia 0.666 2.500 1.333 4.333 2.000 10.832 3 26 Croatia 2.750 3.625 3.000 0.333 1.000 10.708 3 27 Cyprus 3.166 1.333 1.333 3.000 1.750 10.582 4 28 Sweden 2.250 1.500 3.000 2.666 1.125 10.541 4 29 Slovenia 0.666 2.166 3.500 2.333 1.250 9.915 4 30 Bosnia-Herzegovina 3.000 1.666 1.666 1.500 1.833 9.665 3 As a Rangers player Atiba Hutchinson would be more likely to have Champions League action than he would at FC Kobenhaven because the path to the group stages is easier for the top Scottish clubs thanks to that 10th placed ranking. He'd be way better off in the Bundesliga than in either the Scottish or Danish top tiers for overall quality of play, however, because both are backwaters with a big gap in quality between the top and bottom teams. He'd maybe even be better off in MLS that way although finances are a different story at the top clubs obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Rangers can't even hold Celtics' jock straps right now, so i have zero confidence in them qualifying for UCL next season. FCK will have just as much of a chance to make it as Rangers, or AZ Alkmaar for that matter. In terms of Champions League ball Anderlecht has them all clearly beat. They would likely be third best destination for him right now, behind Stuttgart and Werder (in either order). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 There must be something wacky with those coefficients? How many Dutch league teams would Dinamo Bucharest be able to beat? When was the last run by a Romanian club in UEFA or CL? I would also think Greece, Belgium and Turkey should be ranked higher? Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone There must be something wacky with those coefficients? How many Dutch league teams would Dinamo Bucharest be able to beat? When was the last run by a Romanian club in UEFA or CL? I would also think Greece, Belgium and Turkey should be ranked higher? Weird. Romania is that high because 2 of its clubs reached the quarters of the 2005/2006 Uefa Cup. With one of them reaching the semis. With only 3 teams being involved in Europe, and the coefficient being based on the average of points each team gets (essentialy 2 points for a win and 1 point for a tie) in Euro competition, they were ranked quite high that year. In 06/07, Romania did have a club in the CL Group Stage. But most of its 'points' were gained in the qualifying stages. It is a bit of an anomaly, but it was due to their clubs making some decent performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Rangers can't even hold Celtics' jock straps right now.... In terms of club coefficients, which help to determine seedings for qualification round draws here are the top three Scottish clubs and the top three Danish clubs based on the last four seasons:- http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2008.html 34 Glasgow Rangers Sco 6.4335 7.5675 13.4025 15.2275 42.631 42 Celtic Sco 15.4335 8.5675 1.4025 13.2275 38.631 96 Hearts FC Sco 7.4335 6.5675 1.4025 3.2275 18.631 102 FC København Den 4.3860 0.4950 2.1550 10.0210 17.057 Brøndby IF Den 7.3860 0.4950 6.1550 3.0210 17.057 131 OB Odense Den 2.3860 0.4950 1.1550 8.0210 12.057 when Celtic's UEFA cup final season is included over five years it is:- http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/trank2007.html 24 Celtic Sco 23.4335 15.4335 8.5675 1.4025 13.2275 62.064 45 Glasgow Rangers Sco 4.4335 6.4335 7.5675 13.4025 15.2275 47.064 107 Hearts FC Sco 2.4335 7.4335 6.5675 1.4025 3.2275 21.064 116 FC København Den 2.0725 4.3860 0.4950 2.1550 10.0210 19.129 Brøndby IF Den 2.0725 7.3860 0.4950 6.1550 3.0210 19.129 139 OB Odense Den 3.0725 2.3860 0.4950 1.1550 8.0210 15.129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Take this year for example: In the CL 2nd qualifying round Rangers and FCK will both be seeded. But, in the 3rd qualifying round, if both teams advance, Rangers will be seeded, while FCK would be unseeded. This gives Rangers a far greater chance of reaching the CL group stage then FCK does. Mind you, this didn't stop FCK from making the CL Group Stage last year. http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2007.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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