CSA: Foreign coaches are too mercenary

[Paddy]

I was just thinking...has this statement by the CSA forever put a dent in us having a foreign coach? I would think it would require a retraction or apology...the more I think about this the more irresponsible I think it is.

Also, when Dale spoke he really seemed to be echoing the CSA's statement and suggesting that a Canadian, who wants to stay in Canada, is in a position to do more. I did have a child running around and distracting me...but he came off sounding like a shill. I am really on the fence about offering my support to this guy now. But again, I would like to hear the whole interview once more.

[The Beaver]

quote:Originally posted by manutd1

I really think in the canadian context that whether or not the coach is a "mercenary" is irrelevent. The coach is just one guy coaching players; he doesn't decide funding of players to get over here from Europe, how many games we play in a year, or the make up of development systems. To me with the Mitchell vs. Simoes debate, the CSA has succeeded (intended or not) in shielding the enduring questions of funding and management. What we end up talking about are "messiah managers" that just don't exist.

Excellent observations, especially about the concept of the "messiah coach." Mind you, if Mitchell can get us qualified for 2010, then I say we start calling him "The Jesus."

Perhaps I missed it, and maybe we've simply blown this way out of proportion, but please tell me the CSA in their press has provided loads of reasons why they chose Dale. I mean, the CSA's spin here should be fully positive in support of Mitchell, not negative in its self-defense over NOT hiring Simoes. They shouldn't have even mentioned why they didn't hire Simoes; they should have only mentioned why they thought Mitchell was the right dude, right now.

[River City]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I think you have a problem if you hire your mercenary as a TD. I think a TD needs to be there for a longer period to let their marks on a nation soccer history.

But I agree, if you hire a coach, it doesn't matter if he doesn't stay 8 yrs.

What's your definition of a longer period? I think TDs should be replaced every so often so that new ideas can be incorporated into the overall structure. Obviously you don't want the structure to be dramatically changed every 4 years or whatever, but continual tweaking is necessary to make sure everything is as effective as possible. With different TD's you can choose which areas get more attention.

[The Ref]

Reading about high level coaches, it appears these guys when they go to a different country hired to coaches a team, they bring along their own technical staff. So in the case of Simoes, his request to bring his own people was not out of line, but rather an accepted standard nowadays. Maybe for our CSA directors who are perhaps a bit out of touch, it sounded as an invalid request.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

In 2 WCQ campaign Lenarduzzi was far more successfull than Osieck who had us crashing in the first round after having 20 games to prepare us in the year before. In fact, if the WC would've been expanded in 1994 instead of 1998, we would've been in.

In evaluating a manger I'm not really interested in looking at the GC results which have been meaningless if you look back at history. The real test is WCQ. Just look at all the comments in the Mitchell thread "we will evaluate him with his WCQ results@, "if we failed to qualify, he's out". That's how we fans evaluate managers.

BTW, I hated Lenarduzzi as a MNT coach, specially the 1998 WCQ campaign, but I would never say that holger was more successfull than him.

True, but our only two accomplishments have been engineered by a foreign coach(and the help of a coin toss). In my opinion, if we make the hex or not, failing to qualify for the World Cup is exactly that - A Faliure!

[Canuck Oranje]

Are foreign coaches too mercinary? Or is the CSA afraid to sign one to a longer term contract? There are two sides to commitment.

Or do Canadian coaches have fewer international coaching opportunities and therefore more subservient to the CSA board?

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

I'm still willing to give Leo Rautins a chance. If he has Nash, Magloire and Dalembert for the OQ and Olympics i think we can medal. And Ernie Whitt did a pretty decent job for our Baseball team...

Whitt's an American. Rautins is certainly not counting on the big names being there for him.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Whitt's an American. Rautins is certainly not counting on the big names being there for him.

I don't think Whitt's nationaltiy is an issue. VPjr only mentioned that sports other than Hockey are content with mediocre managers.

If Rautins can get the boys to finish in the top 5 at this summers qualifiers than he has a chance to recruit Nash for the repechage prior to the Olympics. If we have Nash, then Dalembert has stated he's in and hopefully Magloire can be convinced with those 2 on board.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

I don't think Whitt's nationaltiy is an issue. VPjr only mentioned that sports other than Hockey are content with mediocre managers.

Hockey is the only sport where the quality of coaching in Canada is good enough to lead national teams. The best results for Canadian team sports have always tended to be foreign coaches.

Baseball: Ernie Whitt

Bronze at the '99 Pan-Am Games and a 4th place finish at the Olympics.

Basketball: Jack Donohue

4th place finishes in the '76 and ' 84 Olympics. 6th in '88 and the World Universiade title in '83.

Soccer: Waiters and Osieck

Nuff said.

quote:Originally posted by jpg75If Rautins can get the boys to finish in the top 5 at this summers qualifiers than he has a chance to recruit Nash for the repechage prior to the Olympics. If we have Nash, then Dalembert has stated he's in and hopefully Magloire can be convinced with those 2 on board.

Rautins stated on a Raptors broadcast that Dalembert won't be playing. I would have placed any bets on Magloire to begin with.

As for Nash, he basically quit the national team after Jay Triano was let go.

No help from the NBA this time. Don't expect any help from them in the near future.

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Soccer: Waiters and Osieck

Nuff said.

Bobby had us just shy of WC94 and also had our highest FIFA ranking ever (40 - 1996). I am no great fan of his, but I would put his results above Osieck's.

[puskas]

It is almost comparing apples and oranges. Osieck won us a tournament title while Lenarduzzi did not reach the goal but came close to the most important goal for Canada. I guess since I would prefer to win the European Championship (our equivalent is the Gold Cup) rather than have my country almost make it to the World Cup, I would have to put Osieck's achomplishment higher although hard to compare.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Bobby had us just shy of WC94 and also had our highest FIFA ranking ever (40 - 1996). I am no great fan of his, but I would put his results above Osieck's.

Yet with the weak state that CONCACAF was in '94, Bobby couldn't do it. He couldn't even do it through the back door either.

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Yet with the weak state that CONCACAF was in '94, Bobby couldn't do it. He couldn't even do it through the back door either.

The team in 94, by todays standards, was equaly as weak. I am shocked with the players that we had in 94 that we made it as far as we did.

Also, the back door route was against a quite good Australian team. It was only with the recall of drugged out Maradona that Argentina was able to get past them. I think they only managed to win 1-0 at home. The Argentina team of 94 ended up being a pretty hot team, though the obviously did struggle in qualification.

[sj]

Bobby did alright in the first qualifying round

His Vancouver 86's was the Canadian most entertaining team to watch.

I was hoping that our national team was going to inherit that style when he took over which I could detect at the beginning.

but the CSA wanted instant results and out goes the free flowing soccer that with time and patient would have done better than the kick and run that he was forced to go with after we lost 3-2 to El salvador at home but at that time we were already qualified for the next round.

his second go at it was horrible when you look at how many points the team that got the final qualifying spot had and hiow late it was decided.

time and time beside not getting results we found outself still in aposition to qualify due to unexpected results in the other games.

At his second attempt he was already thinking like the CSA when prep games was not important if all we are going to do is kick and run all game long.

he already knew what his players will have to do kick and run all day thus defeat the purpose of having more kick and run sessions and tune-up games.

just like Bobby,Mitchell team will have more to do with what the CSA wants in a short term basis.

he will realise that 1 yr is not adequate enough to get the players selected in his final roster comes that first qualifying game.

there is the European pre season factor basically he will have less than ten games if all the international dates are booked to look at players,2 try his system and combination and see how effective it will be at the highest level get the players to master it and hope that he would be able to have the selected group availble for most of the games.

the way I see it in the end he will probably have 3 full games out of all the friendlies where almost all of his key players will actually be on the same pitch.

at that point his only option due to lack of time spent with his group will be the eternal desperation bandaid solution, route one kick and run,damage control style of play and hope we can cheat our way cheaply into the final Hex.

[RealGooner]

"the best only hire their own" -Dale Mitchell. What puke. Dale, if you know whats good for you, just coach the team and stop destroying your credibility by spewing the CSA line. We're clearly not the best so what is your point?

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

"the best only hire their own" -Dale Mitchell. What puke. Dale, if you know whats good for you, just coach the team and stop destroying your credibility by spewing the CSA line. We're clearly not the best so what is your point?

Dale Mitchel = toadie. The sooner he fails the better, but then who is next, Ian Bridge?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Dale Mitchel = toadie. The sooner he fails the better

Calling him a toadie is one thing, but hoping that he fails as a coach & therefore hoping that Canada will lose is another. The first chance he will get at "failing" as the national team coach will be World Cup Qualifying. Why on earth would we want him to fail at that?

[Canuck Oranje]

On "the best only hiring their own", five of the top ten teams currently ranked by FIFA have at one time or another had a foreign coach. Portugal currently have Scolari. England had Erikson. France had Stafan Kovacs for a time in the 1970s. Spain had Ladislao Kubala in the 1960s.

And the Netherlands had Frantisek Fadrhonc. Fadrhonc in fact qualified the Netherlands to the 1974 World Cup.

Also, it's interesting when you look at the fortunes of Canada, Japan, Korea, and Saudi Arabia since 1993. In 1993, all four nations were relatively closely ranked. Today, Japan and Korea are well ahead of us and Saudi Arabia, after having a good run in the late 1990s, falls in between Canada and the other two. Korea, Japan, and Saudi Arabia have used various foreign coaches. Korea's breakthrough, of course, came in 2002 with Hiddink.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Calling him a toadie is one thing, but hoping that he fails as a coach & therefore hoping that Canada will lose is another. The first chance he will get at "failing" as the national team coach will be World Cup Qualifying. Why on earth would we want him to fail at that?

[/quote

The point is so that after all this time the CSA will (hopefully) be forced to make the right decisions and this cycle of ineptitude will end. Again, I may be wrong, but I feel that we will be back in the same position after the next WCQ.

Mitchell is proving to me, by attitude alone, that he is not the man for this job. He is coming off like a shill for the CSA. Therefore, rather than prolonging what I see as the inevitable, I want him gone (ASAP).

I really don’t know how many more times I can explain that I am a fan of the team and I want the best for them. My TV will be on during all Canadian games and I will be cheering the Canadian team. The players have my support…lame decisions by the CSA do not. So, IMHO, the best for the team is not Dale Mitchell or Frank Yallop or what ever ex-Canadian MNT team coach they come up with.

If our program is ever to progress it is not going to be by looking internally. We just don’t have the coaching resources. Dale may save us money in the short term, but, like Yallop, will more than likely cost us in the long term. The CSA needs to take the chance and spend the money (how they get it is up to them, it is what needs to be done).

I know you will say that I should just support Dale as he now has the job and we are stuck with him for at least this qualification. I just can’t do it. It may seem irreconcilably paradoxical to you, but this is how I feel.

We will never know what Rene could have brought, but even on a symbolic level it would have suggested that the CSA is taking things seriously. Instead the exact opposite has happened. We have been left with a weak minded (based on his recent public comments), band-aid coach. Great.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

The point is so that after all this time the CSA will (hopefully) be forced to make the right decisions and this cycle of ineptitude will end.

If Dale Mitchell guides us to a World Cup berth in 2010, that will indicate that the CSA made the right decision in hiring Mitchell. And by extension, the cycle of ineptitude will have ended.

I hope Mitchell succeeds - not because I have any wish to see the CSA vindicated, but rather because I want to see Canada in the World Cup again.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If Dale Mitchell guides us to a World Cup berth in 2010, that will indicate that the CSA made the right decision in hiring Mitchell. And by extension, the cycle of ineptitude will have ended.

I hope Mitchell succeeds - not because I have any wish to see the CSA vindicated, but rather because I want to see Canada in the World Cup again.

My sentiments exactly. I think we all know that the CSA is choosing its coaches blindly but just by the luck of the draw the have to get it right occasionally. Lets hope this is the time they lucked out despite their ineptitude.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If Dale Mitchell guides us to a World Cup berth in 2010, that will indicate that the CSA made the right decision in hiring Mitchell. And by extension, the cycle of ineptitude will have ended.

I hope Mitchell succeeds - not because I have any wish to see the CSA vindicated, but rather because I want to see Canada in the World Cup again.

My sentiments exactly. I think we all know that the CSA is choosing its coaches blindly but just by the luck of the draw the have to get it right occasionally. Lets hope this is the time they lucked out despite their ineptitude.

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If Dale Mitchell guides us to a World Cup berth in 2010, that will indicate that the CSA made the right decision in hiring Mitchell.

If we make it to the world cup convincingly and continue after to have good results, then yes, the CSA will have made the correct decision. The problem, to me, is much deeper than just Dale Mitchell (besides the fact that I don't think he is right for the job).

If we do make it again with little change in preparation from our past failures (which of course could happen), the CSA may view this as mission accomplished and turtle again for the next 20 years under the false pretense that they have taken care of business (when in fact nothing has changed). That would be a disaster. Change is needed, not luck.

I am curious to see how our build up to the next WCQ will be handled.

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

My sentiments exactly. I think we all know that the CSA is choosing its coaches blindly but just by the luck of the draw the have to get it right occasionally. Lets hope this is the time they lucked out despite their ineptitude.

Sigh...this is exactly want the CSA wants.

[Grizzly]

The thing that would bring the most change to the CSA and the national team progam is qualifying for the WC again regardless of through luck or professionalism. The higher profile of the MNT gained from this would make the CSA operate under more scrutiny and force them to be more professional and accountable.