john tv Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Over the years I have been complaining about the quality and primarily the colour(white) balance of each game. Just watching Red Bulls and Houston.Every time there is a different camera angle the colour of the grass changes dramatically,mostly a dirty dark something.Sometimes there is a green colour,so it is possible to show the correct colour of the grass.I wonder who and why and for what reason is this happening. I hope Toronto FC will make very sure that these cameras are properly colour(white) balanced. It is extremely unattractive, on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 why would it be on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 22, 2007 Author Share Posted April 22, 2007 It simply makes no sense at all.I tried to reach the offices of the MLS in New York to complain.Could not find any ph.no only MLS club web sites. This was about two years ago. Maybe it has changed,but this has to stop. I really wonder am I the only one who notices this or am I the only one who cares,I don't know,it just is so wrong. I remember over the years comparing it to NFL and Baseball coverage and yes the colours are correct,so it can be done. Just watched some EPL stuff and yes that green is perfect and even beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 You are not the only one that notices it, that is for sure. I am pretty sure it is a matter of budget. Not that it is impossible on a cheap budget to match cameras, it really depends on the set up, but more importantly the people. I have met camera operators who get all sorts of jobs cause they can talk, and don't know what a white balance is. Best person on this board to ask would be David Bailey. He could probably give you a technical breakdown of what is happening. There are so many scenarios as to why it might be happening, but I am pretty certain it comes down to cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 No cost, I have produced many more shows than David has and he will be the first one to admit this. It is one of the simplest things to do, it is called white balance,meaning that once the camera reads the white all colours will fall in place.None of these cameras are ever white balanced which to me means that they either don't know how to do or,which is ludicrous or it is done on purpose meaning it is not done.The reason is quite sinister allright.It takes about 3 seconds to do the balance and the cost is zilch! Every TV show starts with he white balance all across the world. It makes no sense at all!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Yes, it's on purpose. They're part of the Great Conspiracy-haven't you been told? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 The picture of games televised on HDNet is superb...it's as if you're watching the game thru a window. And although I don't subscribe to ESPN 2, their broadcasts have generally been getting positve reviews over at Big Soccer. It's not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv No cost, I have produced many more shows than David has and he will be the first one to admit this. Uh, ya, OK John, whatever you say. [)] I don't know if it's fish but I agree, something really smells around here. [xx(] db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I do notice a low camera quality on some games that i have watched in previous years... but no problems this year. But come on John, saying that they dont white ballance is like saying there paying there production team minimum wage. You goto a 2 hour course about cameras and the one thing that you will come out with from that is how to white ballance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amacpher Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Sometimes the players disappear into the grass. Especially on GolTV broadcasts. Could these problems be related? Maybe it has something to do with the software that displays imaginary lines on the field (such as the 10-yard radius circle for free-kicks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 But have you produced shows with no budget..... that 1. May include cameras of completely different types and lenses. 2. Over time spans such as early evening with artificial lights coming on to completely change the color temperature 3. May include cheap cables that span wildly different distances to the switcher. 4. Camera operators who are paid $9/hr who have never seen a soccer game before. You can't white balance my TRV-900 and have it look the same as the main camera at a sports event with a $40 000 lense. The end zone cameras may very well be much cheaper ENG cameras as opposed to more expensive ones in the middle. I don't think white balance and camera matching are the same thing. Now lets not even touch on the number of possibilities on VTR playback in a cheap mobile. 4940f34098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 But have you produced shows with no budget..... that 1. May include cameras of completely different types and lenses. 2. Over time spans such as early evening with artificial lights coming on to completely change the color temperature 3. May include cheap cables that span wildly different distances to the switcher. 4. Camera operators who are paid $9/hr who have never seen a soccer game before. You can't white balance my TRV-900 and have it look the same as the main camera at a sports event with a $40 000 lense. The end zone cameras may very well be much cheaper ENG cameras as opposed to more expensive ones in the middle. I don't think white balance and camera matching are the same thing. Now lets not even touch on the number of possibilities on VTR playback in a cheap mobile. 4940f34098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty_TorontoFC Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 i'd still raher watch it that way then on the score network...their pathetic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty_TorontoFC Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 i'd still raher watch it that way then on the score network...their pathetic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktci Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Metallic headgear has been known to cause problems with television signals. Has this been eliminated as a possible cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktci Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Metallic headgear has been known to cause problems with television signals. Has this been eliminated as a possible cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 It could have been some kids braces interfering with the plasma conduit to the flux capacitor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 It could have been some kids braces interfering with the plasma conduit to the flux capacitor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay I do notice a low camera quality on some games that i have watched in previous years... but no problems this year. But come on John, saying that they dont white ballance is like saying there paying there production team minimum wage. You goto a 2 hour course about cameras and the one thing that you will come out with from that is how to white ballance. Well mr. key, is that the key to any video production is that you make damn sure that the colours are balanced. this is not and I repeat not being done.This I find to be typical of those that want to sabotage our game. There simply is no other answer. I suggest all of you watch the upcoming games and you all be the judge. It is criminal in my mind. I received a request today about my credentials about my experience in being a producer and I forwrded the answer to Alfons. So Alfons publish them please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by john tv This i find to be typical of those that want to sabotage our game. There simply is no other answer. Um... wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Mighty_TorontoFC i'd still raher watch it that way then on the score network...their pathetic!! If this is about the ticker, for the last damn time-it HAS to be there. And if not, then we all know how wonderful it is to judge a new channel on their first few broadcasts. I mean, no time to work out the kinks, get your feet as a commentator... And don't blame The Score for other channels they rebroadcast. That is pathetic. /they're. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanKeay Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42 But have you produced shows with no budget..... that 1. May include cameras of completely different types and lenses. 2. Over time spans such as early evening with artificial lights coming on to completely change the color temperature 3. May include cheap cables that span wildly different distances to the switcher. 4. Camera operators who are paid $9/hr who have never seen a soccer game before. You can't white balance my TRV-900 and have it look the same as the main camera at a sports event with a $40 000 lense. The end zone cameras may very well be much cheaper ENG cameras as opposed to more expensive ones in the middle. I don't think white balance and camera matching are the same thing. Now lets not even touch on the number of possibilities on VTR playback in a cheap mobile. 4940f34098 Now were talkin here.... No one here will debate the production quality with the mls (decent, but definatly could get better), but its not the fact of sabotage or stupidity.. it has to do with the tools that you have to produce the soccer game on tv.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay Now were talkin here.... No one here will debate the production quality with the mls (decent, but definatly could get better), but its not the fact of sabotage or stupidity.. it has to do with the tools that you have to produce the soccer game on tv.. Right. Exactly. So many factors can come into play. Remember the old saying "the angle of reflection equals the angle of incidence". Stadium lights are high. The sun is high. Main cameras are high. Low angle cameras are subject to different light reflections off the playing surface than are the high cameras. Sometimes it's a factor, sometimes it isn't. If it is, the cameras can't completely match even if they are white balanced. Sometimes you'll have a tech go and manually compromise to attempt to make things match a bit better but it's going to be a compromise situation. ... and ya, absolutely, quality of cameras and lenses can be a factor although the lenses won't change your colour balance but if they're cheap, you'll be forced to add gain which will add noise to your camera output. ... and btw, what is more important, the colour of the field or the flesh tones of the players. I'll say flesh tones every time. ... and to imply that the broadcaster are intentionally making the telecast look bad because they're part of the luminati and have some sort of secret handshake agreement to kill soccer is too ridiculous to contemplate. The people that own the trucks and work in the trucks are professionals. They are going to do the best job that they can possibly do because their businesses and livelihoods depend on the quality of their work. If your work isn't up to snuff, you don't get hired and soon enough, you're out of business. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 David they are either very stupid and or don't care or don't know how to white balance these cameras. You know as well that in the control room as the director you call the shots. You know if cameras show different colours of the same subject no matter what the angle is.Not one of the cameras showed the same green. I am looking forward to the next broadcast and I am just about ready to bet that we will see the same crap again. It is very fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 I must agree, assertions of some grand, fishy conspiracy are just plain ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.