RJB Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 There's been a lot of criticism, particularly of the Whitecaps, for being too American, so I thought I'd add up the nationalities on Canada's pro clubs so we could see the figures for ourselves. All Nationalities are from the respective teams websites, and only players listed on the roster pages of the website are included. WHITECAPS</u> Canada</u>: 10 Srdjan Djekanovic Adrian Cann Diaz Kambere Stefan Leslie Steve Kindel Alfredo Valente Dave Morris Jeff Clarke MartinNash Jason Jordan USA</u>: 8 Jared Montz Lyle Martin Steve Klein David Testo Jay Alberts Tony Donatelli Jason McLaughlin Joey Gjertsen England</u>: 1 Tony Caig Trinidad & Tobago</u>: 1 Joel Bailey Cuba</u>: 1 Eduardo Sebrango IMPACT</u> Canada</u>: 14 Hicham Aaboubou Andres Arango Mauro Biello Massimo Di Ioia Jason DiTullio David Fronimadis Simon Gatti Charles Gbeke Gabriel Gervais Patrick Leduc Sita-Taty Matondo Matthew Palleschi Nevio Pizzolito Antonio Ribeiro USA</u>: 4 Matt Jordan Seth Tremblay Shaun Tsakiris Andrew Weber Jamaica</u>: 1 Fabian Dawkins Argentina</u>: 3 Leonardo Di Lorenzo Martin Fabro Mauricio Vincello Brazil</u>: 2 Frederico Moojen Ze Roberto TORONTO FC</u> Canada</u>: 14 Rich Asante Adam Braz Jim Brennan Miguel Canizalez Tomer Chencinski AJ Gray David Guzman Tyler Hemming Andrew Lombardo Steven Lumley Joey Melo Chris Pozniak Marco Reda Greg Sutton USA</u>: 4 Edson Buddle Alecko Eskandarian Marvel Wynne Maurice Edu New Zealand</u>: 1 Andrew Boyens England</u>: 2 Daniel Dichio Andy Welsh Togo</u>: 1 Abbe Ibrahim Brazil</u>: 1 Paulo Nagamura Ireland</u>: 1 Ronnie O'Brien Wales</u>: 1 Carl Robinson So, as far as percentages of Canadians listed on the senior roster, Whitecaps: 10 Canadians of 21 Players - 47% Impact: 14 Canadians of 24 Players - 58% TFC: 14 Canadians of 25 Players - 56% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I wonder how these numbers compare with top level professional clubs in other countries - domestic versus foreign players I mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 once they analyse the top four clubs in the EPL they wont have much of an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Here's the breakdown at Barça, including third keeper who is Spanish. Spain 8 Brazil 5 Argentina 2 France 2 Portugal 1 Mexico 1 Holland 1 Cameroon 1 Iceland 1 Italy 1 That is only 37% Spanish, but in contrast nine players came through the youth system, from their teen years. I would imagine that the big clubs in Europe are close to this, though in England you might find the numbers only get up there if you take British players as a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Thanks for that info RJB. I had been curious about this for some time but didnt have the time to look it up. Though the number does look favourable for Toronto FC, it should be noted that its the Cnd players on the reserve/youth teams thats skews it in their favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 The roster posted above for Vancouver is not entirely complete.... I think there are one or two new players missing from the above list who were featured in the Vancouver Province the other day. One is defender Narcisse Syrille Tchoumi, who played first division in Cameroon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Thanks for that info RJB. I had been curious about this for some time but didnt have the time to look it up. Though the number does look favourable for Toronto FC, it should be noted that its the Cnd players on the reserve/youth teams thats skews it in their favour. The reserve/youth team players do skew the results but no more for TFC than for the other teams. A large percentage of the Canadians on the Caps and Impact are also not seeing much first team action. If one looks at those Canadians actually getting first team game time the percentages for all three teams are much lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 The Toronto roster is out of date - subtract Conor Casey & add Kevin Goldthwaite (both are Americans). You also need to add Maurice Edu as another American, so the Canadian percentage will lower slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly The reserve/youth team players do skew the results but no more for TFC than for the other teams. A large percentage of the Canadians on the Caps and Impact are also not seeing much first team action. If one looks at those Canadians actually getting first team game time the percentages for all three teams are much lower. Also, it should be mentioned there are a number of other U20 Canadians who are playing for the TFC reserves who are not officially on the U20 roster (and not listed here), including Christian Nunez & Gabe Gala. As Massive Attack mentioned on another thread in response to a factually incorrect statement from B&W Army, the TFC reserves are a de facto Canadian U20 team. In fact I am wondering what is going to happen on the weekend on the 12th to the TFC reserve team when most of them will be playing Argentina the night before. To be fair to the USL teams though, we'll probably have to see how much some of their "reserve"/youth players play before we can conclude that the actual playing percentages are the same. I know there have been pre-season friendlies for each team, but they aren't always indicative of what will happen when the season starts - case in point Richard Asante for TFC who started a lot of pre-season games but hasn't seen the field yet for the senior team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Here's the breakdown at Barça, including third keeper who is Spanish. Spain 8 Brazil 5 Argentina 2 France 2 Portugal 1 Mexico 1 Holland 1 Cameroon 1 Iceland 1 Italy 1 That is only 37% Spanish, but in contrast nine players came through the youth system, from their teen years. I would imagine that the big clubs in Europe are close to this, though in England you might find the numbers only get up there if you take British players as a block. Did Deco count as Brazilan or Portuguese? On the USL side, we have Sebrango listed as Cuban. Though he has canadian citizenship and will not be returning to Cuba. We have Ze Roberto as Brazilian yet, I think that I read somewhere that he considerers himself American. What about Vincello, How argentinian is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I believe Vincello still resides in Argentina during the off-season. Ze Roberto is married to an American and now resides in the US in the off-season. I think he might still have Brazilian "soccer nationality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Thanks for that list - I don't remember seeing anything like that before. Wouldn't it be absolutely dreamlike to have an American (or other) club team field something like 40% Canadians as the Whitecaps have done with Americans. Imagine all the spaces available to developing Canadian players. Ahhh...a guy can dream Now here's another question - which team in the world outside of Canada has the highest percentage of Canadians in their make-up? Charleston, I wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 Remember, I just took the names off the websites, so if I missed a few players, keep that in mind. I made the change, subtracting Conor Casey, and adding Maurice Edu - I just must have missed him. Once we see the starting rosters for the 'Caps and Impact, we'll be able to have a better idea of the role the Canadians play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 http://www.arsenal.com/squad.asp?thisNav=First+Team make your own deduction and one wonder why England does so poorly at international level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanDouglas Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 The correct and current breakdown for the Whitecaps is: CANADA 13 Tyler Baldock Adrian Cann Jeff Clarke Serge Djekanovic Jason Jordan Steve Kindel Stefan Leslie Nigel Marples Dave Morris Martin Nash Eduardo Sebrango Graham Smith Alfredo Valente USA 9 Jay Alberts Tony Donatelli Joey Gjertsen Marty Johnston Steve Klein Jason McLaughlin Lyle Martin Jared Montz David Testo CAMEROON 1 Narcisse Tchoumi ENGLAND 1 Tony Caig T&T 1 Joel Bailey Here is how it breaks down in terms of minutes of playing time in the games so far: Whitecaps CANADA: 544' USA: 203' OTHER: 243' Which is 55% Canadian. Impact CANADA: 484' USA: 111' OTHER: 395' Which is 49% Canadian. FC CANADA: 687' USA: 595' OTHER: 698' Which is 35% Canadian. Early days yet, but interesting nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I don't know if Sebrango has or is applying for Canadian citizenship but he has been capped by Cuba so there is no way from a soccer perspective that he can be counted as Canadian. Remove his 82 minutes and Vancouver falls below the Impact to 47% assuming your other calculations are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Sebrango's Canadian citizenship cannot be denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanDouglas Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Sebrango IS a Canadian citizen. And considering he is 34 years old now I think it rather silly to be arguing about which national team he can play for. Or perhaps you expect Mauro Biello will be getting called-up for World Cup qualifying soon. If you want to restrict the focus to Canadians who might realistically have a chance to play for Canada, say the 28 and under set plus perhaps the under-32s who have played for Canada in the last few years, then that is another question, and we need to draw up new lists and run the numbers again. But if our focus is on potential Canadian National Team players, then shouldn't we also consider the possibility of some young import player falling in love with their adopted city or one of its residents, and eventually becoming a Canadian citizen and playing for Canada. That's happened twice with the Whitecaps: Carl Valentine from England and Martina Franko from the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I don't think foreign players brought in to clubs who later apply for Canadian citizenship should be counted as Canadians (in soccer terms) but if they are going to be counted they should at least be eligible to play for us. I think a reasonable definition in soccer terms for a Canadian player is someone who has Canadian citizenship and is eligible to play for Canada. Sebrango is not eligible to play for Canada. I certainly hope Biello will not get called up for this WCQ like he was to the last one but he is at least a Canadian who is eligible to play for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanDouglas Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 I think we either do this on nationalistic grounds, in which case Canadian is Canadian, or we do it on the basis of realistic National Team potential, in which case a number of players get ruled out. Playing lawyerball, as you advocate, does neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Because the numbers were not quite what some expected the criteria must be changed! Who cares about nationality, this is the professional sports entertainment business folks. What's the proportion of British players in the EPL and how many of them would be selectable to play for their respective national teams? This discussion is becoming silly and nugatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I don't know if Sebrango has or is applying for Canadian citizenship but he has been capped by Cuba so there is no way from a soccer perspective that he can be counted as Canadian. Remove his 82 minutes and Vancouver falls below the Impact to 47% assuming your other calculations are correct. Sebrango is a Canadian citizen and is married to a staffer at the CSA. The national team had made prior attempts through FIFA to cap him but were unsuccessfull since Canada would have needed some cooperation from Cuba to do so. Cuba refused to cooperate. Too bad actually, because I really liked his play and we definitely could have used him in the past. He was a very productive fwd with good pace and skills on the ball. This is something we have lacked in a little from the FWD position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Sebrango didn't play for Canada not because of Cuban objections. He would've certainly won approval from FIFA for the nationality change. It failed because Sebrango's original attempt to get citizenship failed when he got the fast track. That loss meant having to wait in line to get his case heard again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 Toronto FC starts only 3 Canadians in their game versus Kansas City. I predict that the term Americaps will become extinct, given that FC are taking lack of Canadian content to a new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 And still they play like a bunch of second rate amateurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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