TrueNorth Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm not getting my hopes up too quickly this time. This is the same developer that recently backed out of the complex at U of M. From CJOB radio: http://cjob.com/news/index.aspx?src=loc&rem=62638 "The University of Winnipeg is fronting a proposal to build an indoor soccer and hockey complex adjacent to the Duckworth Centre. The proposed $20 million dollar facility would have two indoor hockey rinks and two indoor soccer pitches. It is a public -private partnership with the University donating the land. The City of Winnipeg is being asked to provide up to $6million dollars in assistance. CJOB News has learned one of the partners involved in the plan is Joe Bova of Man-shield Construction. Bova pulled out of a strictly soccer proposal at the Fort Garry Campus of the University of Manitoba earlier this year." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Ok, so we get 2 soccer and 2 hockey instead of 4 soccer. Wow what a deal, and if this falls through too, maybe we will get 1 soccer and 3 hockey in the next proposal. Indoor soccer enrollment is growing (or would if we have the facilities)and hockey enrollment is stable or slightly declining and this is what we get. I wonder if the fees will be set so that the soccer program subsidizes the hockey program like they are set at the community club level here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Sigh. The previous proposal failed when $1.2 million (+/-) left the table. That's a pretty tenuous plan, when a relatively small amount basically shoots down all the hopes and dreams of our soccer youth. At this point, a field of two is probably better than a field of none. The MSA and its Winnipeg chapter has to take more of a leadership role and get the ball rolling (no pun intended), because Saskatchewan and the Maritimes have eclipsed our development. Find the money and the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Indoor soccer ? I assume they mean a an indoor pitch with no boards, as this would be the only way U of W could have a CIAU soccer team. Fantastic news. U of W used to have a university soccer team years ago. As an active Wesmen alumni, I fully endorse the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 New sports complex proposed by U of W By Ross Romaniuk The University of Winnipeg is teaming with a developer to take a kick at constructing an indoor soccer complex at its downtown campus, in addition to an arena that appears aimed at an attempt to revive a Wesmen hockey program. But because the facility would hold only a couple of indoor fields, a major local soccer organization says the proposal should be booted from consideration for public funds. The $20-million complex including a so-called Sports Centre of Excellence — if approved by city hall for up to $6 million in funding — would be constructed with two indoor soccer pitches immediately south of U of W’s Duckworth Centre fieldhouse on Spence Street with an opening slated for the late summer of next year. “This may be the single most important development for the core area of the city and Portage Avenue in probably 50 years, because I think it would bring more people on a daily basis — moms and dads and children — than any other project downtown,” Joe Bova, president of Man-Shield Construction, told Sun Media today of his firm’s proposal with the university. “If we are really serious about the core area and downtown development, this development is it. And if we’re not, we’re not.” Through a spokesman, U of W president Lloyd Axworthy refused to comment on the proposal. However, the Winnipeg Sun has obtained a detailed book of designs and details on the possible development. The two-level complex would include commercial and retail space on its ground floor along Spence Street, in addition to an 800-seat arena. The two soccer pitches would be housed on the second floor with viewing areas and a lounge for spectators, with the upper level potentially connected to Duckworth Centre by an overhead walkway above a laneway for vehicles. An outdoor Sports Centre Plaza would be developed between the facility and CBC Manitoba studios to the south. A design sketch for the arena depicts an overhead score clock bearing U of W’s team name Wesmen. The university has not had a men’s hockey team since the 1980s, though Axworthy has floated the possibility of trying to relaunch the program. The proposal is among a handful reportedly under consideration for the $6 million in tri-level government assistance earmarked for an indoor soccer complex. The Winnipeg Soccer Federation, however, says the funds should not go to any project involving less than four pitches — which the city’s thousands of facility-starved youth and adult players need. Federation head Keith Ferbers added that a couple of proposals, other than the pitch from Bova and the U of W, have been submitted to the city for consideration following a collapse of a previous plan to construct an $11-million indoor and outdoor complex at the University of Manitoba. Bova had been involved in that project with Laureate Developments Inc., though he withdrew from the plan last fall for reasons reportedly stemming from the facility’s use and financing. And his pullout removed about $1.9 million from the project, effectively killing the development. The city has since issued a new request for proposals from developers, and had hoped to determine by this spring how and where to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 As I understand it the $6 million was designated for an indoor soccer facility -- this did not include hockey. Is this an attempt by the U of W to use part of the $6 million to help fund their desire to add men and women's hockey to their sports' program? A hockey rink is much more expensive to build and operate than an indoor soccer pitch. Has anyone considered the parking problem at the U of W? What about the number of assaults and car break-ins that regularly get reported in the Free Press? This is (I think) a bad idea. Use the $6 million to build a four field soccer pitch (without boards) that can be used as a full field training facility and support youth/adult recreational soccer at the same time. If the U of W wants to get into the soccer business let them do it with their own dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 For an indoor facility I'd take the U of W campus over U of M any day of the week but this is all a pipe dream. Not going to happen. Now, tommorrow or ever. Swapping the six millions the city had commited for an indoor complex and outdoor field-turff pitch for 2 indoor fields? They (Bova & Co.) are out of their minds. About the only thing going for this scheme is the U of W is on an absolute roll these days, the U of M project looks dead in the water, and I'm convinced that the prick Katz is a soccer hater so waisting the city's money on 2 indoor pitches may suit him just fine. I'm not opposed to mixing and matching indoor fields with hockey rinks. Seems to work just fine at the Highlander (best indoor field in the city by far) and at Gateway CC (most used indoor field by far). I'm just against a sport (soccer/football) which is sooo odviously in need of infastructure support being cobbled together with anything else when it clearly can stand on it's own were it treated in the same fashion as oh, I don't know, hockey... P.S. What the heck is going on these days? I mean realy. Did everyone else see CanAd's latest stadium proposal for the Old Canada Packers site? There must be an election coming because sure as **** the developers are lining up for that so-called 80 millions in public funding needed for a new Winnipeg Stadium and (I think more importantly) the rights to the property the old Winnipeg Stadium sits on. Will say this, when I saw the proposal for the Canada Packers site two things went through my head. 1st) Have these people ever been in that area? I mean come on. Looks pretty damned good in print but the area is a ****-hole even by East End standards. Being within a klick or two of slaughter houses, feed mills, chemical and mushroom plants and rail yards doesn't exactly inspire visions of high end grandure now does it? and 2nd) Ignoring the above, the proposed complex at Canada Packers should have plenty of room (and parking) for an indoor soccer multi-complex no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 One positive is that if U of W has the facilities, then it would be feasable for them to have a CIAU team, as they had in the past. That serves the greater soccer community by giving our young players an opportunity they have in every province but Manitoba (which in itself is an outrage). By all means, the more fields the better. But if our universties have the facilities and the teams, that provides opportunites to our players that currently do not exist. It also assists in elevating the status of the game and increases the exposure. The Duckworth staff do a great job of running their facilities and maintain them in perfect condition. Certainly the soccer fields would be well looked after. If they build 4 fields in the suburbs, none of this could be accomplished. Why not give U of W 2 fields and place 2 fields somewhere else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 To Cheeta, Why did you dislike the U of M proposal? I thought it was a win-win for local soccer and the U of M. They have a University women's team and they could use it during the day for instruction with their large P.E program. There is lots of parking available and although in the south of the city it balances nicely the two (three) facilities in the north and the one in the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 I guess I forgot about Cover-all. Make that two facilities in the West of Wpg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 To Cheeta, Why did you dislike the U of M proposal? I thought it was a win-win for local soccer and the U of M. They have a University women's team and they could use it during the day for instruction with their large P.E program. There is lots of parking available and although in the south of the city it balances nicely the two (three) facilities in the north and the one in the west. My understanding was that the MSA financing was not there. They could not secure a milion plus dollars, which in itself says something. Financially, their house is not in order. One aspect I like about this propsal, is that is does not include the MSA. They have nothing financially to bring to the table, so why have them involved. No doubt for that very reason, they will try to scuttle this drive to build fields at U of W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 quote:Originally posted by terpfan68 To Cheeta, Why did you dislike the U of M proposal? I thought it was a win-win for local soccer and the U of M. They have a University women's team and they could use it during the day for instruction with their large P.E program. There is lots of parking available and although in the south of the city it balances nicely the two (three) facilities in the north and the one in the west. [:I] Selfish geographic reasons. U of W is at worst 15 minutes from my place, U of M closer to 40. That being said, I'd swap the origional U of M scheme for this latest one being proposed in a heart-beat and put up with the travel. It's just so odviously superior. But it's also dead in the water. And no I don't think the MSA brings anything but nickles and dimes to the scheme. Being the governing body for soccer in 'toba I'd imagine they have some sort of stewardship over tax dollars specified for soccer infastructure projects within the province. Whether they're directly involved in the development and operating of the project or no. Of course, if the U of W, it's alumni and Bova want to pull off this plan all on their own outside of the public moneys already commited to a WSC2 I wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayport Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 The MSA have not been involved. The lead organization has been the Winnipeg Soccer Federation. It was a WSF business plan that secured $6m of infrastructure funding from governments and can access up to another $1m if $500K can be fundraised. There is a significant difference between the two proposals. The Univ of Manitoba worked with the WSF and the soccer community would have first rights to the facility. The University of Winnipeg proposal has had no input from the soccer community that I am aware of and will be there to serve university needs while community access would not be a priority. When you consider that PUFS three years ago accepted the need for indoor soccer facilities (possibly up to 12 fields), 2 university owned and managed fields does not fiit the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Tayport The MSA have not been involved. The lead organization has been the Winnipeg Soccer Federation. It was a WSF business plan that secured $6m of infrastructure funding from governments and can access up to another $1m if $500K can be fundraised. There is a significant difference between the two proposals. The Univ of Manitoba worked with the WSF and the soccer community would have first rights to the facility. The University of Winnipeg proposal has had no input from the soccer community that I am aware of and will be there to serve university needs while community access would not be a priority. When you consider that PUFS three years ago accepted the need for indoor soccer facilities (possibly up to 12 fields), 2 university owned and managed fields does not fiit the bill. If the PUFS accepted the need for up to 12 fields, then I hardly see 4 fields meeting the need. I don't think the U of W will be upset if there are other indoor facilities throughout the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Of course they won't be upset if THEY get the 6 million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Tayport The MSA have not been involved. The lead organization has been the Winnipeg Soccer Federation. It was a WSF business plan that secured $6m of infrastructure funding from governments and can access up to another $1m if $500K can be fundraised. There is a significant difference between the two proposals. The Univ of Manitoba worked with the WSF and the soccer community would have first rights to the facility. The University of Winnipeg proposal has had no input from the soccer community that I am aware of and will be there to serve university needs while community access would not be a priority. When you consider that PUFS three years ago accepted the need for indoor soccer facilities (possibly up to 12 fields), 2 university owned and managed fields does not fiit the bill. The U of W has no soccer team and Axworthy has only stated a desire to have a hockey program. Perhaps in the long-term the U of W could have a soccer team and why would WSF or the soccer community complain about that ? With no soccer program, obviously the indoor soccer fields would be used by the soccer community. U of W only has two sport programs, basketball and volleyball, neither of which would ever have need for an indoor soccer field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Ok, so we reward the school WITHOUT a soccer program at the expense of the school WITH a program and put up with an inferior facility for the rest of the soccer community. Does not make sense to me, but what do I know. Plus the real estate downtown has to have a higher value than land adjacent to Bison Stadium which also allows for outdoor pitches. I would like to know the "real" reason that the U of M deal fell through. I thought it sounded like a great idea. I just don't want any of the $6 million going to hockey and I fear that the U of W proposal will spend the majority of the money on hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueNorth Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 From my understanding, the U of M deal fell through because there were a numner of construction issues with the planned site, that were going to substantially increase the construction costs. Bova's group did not want to have to deal with these issues and were being asked to increase their 'donation' to help cover these additional costs. It was at this point that their group pulled the plug. As for the U of W proposal, I'm sure the city would consider some level of funding to help with the construction. They would also realize that the $6 million promised for a 4 pitch complex would not be appropriate to spend towards a 2 pitch proposal. I also don't see the logic that 2 indoor pitches would cause the U of W to start up a soccer program again. I would love to see it happen, but it's not in their plans and 2 indoor pitches wouldn't change this. IMHO, the U of M plan was by far superior to the U of W proposal, but this deal seems to be dead. The U of W proposal would be a step in the right direction, but could kill any further developments becase it would use up a good chuck of the $6 million planned for soccer in this city. Guess, we'll have to wait and see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 To TrueNorth What were the "construction issues" that you mentioned? How much of a cost over run were we talking about? Could the "soccer community" have increased their contribution to cover the over run? How about a $5 "tax" on each soccer registration (indoor and out)to cover the cost over run and maybe a $1 admission charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueNorth Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 What I understand is that there is substantial piping underground where the facility was planned. Apparently the major piping network for the university lead from this area and the planners didn't realize what a problem this was going to cause. Unfortunatley I don't know any concrete dollar figures for how much extra this was suppose to cost the project. As for the 'soccer community' coming up with the extra cash, they were only providing $1.5 million of the $9.4 million complex. I think it would have to take some drastic actions to see a major increase in this amount. Not saying that is couldn't or shouldn't happen, but I don't think it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 There is alot of space on Bison Drive. Couldn't they consider a spot closer to Pembina Highway. Don't tell me there is piping under the whole area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan68 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 The Conservatives have promised $3 million for an indoor facility in south Winnipeg. I guess there is a lot of soccer votes out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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