DeRo in Interview Process

[Guest Jeffery S.]

In principle it is scandalous and shows the CSA is not on the same planet as the rest of FIFA nations. Really disappointing.

Especially since in the end, if the coach does not work out, the CSA could cite the opinion of a player to avoid having to take the full blame for hiring erroneously. Or the player would feel excessively responsible for the coach choice, which is an unfair pressure on a guy who has a job to do 90% on the field and maybe 10% in the dressing room.

Does this mean DD will take part of the rap if the coach does not get us results? Totally improper set up.

Though I do recognize that important players on national sides do sometimes end up influencing in favour of a coach. I think this has happened in Mexico. But even then i have never heard of an overt campaign by a player in favour of this or that coach. Only when asked about a certain name they might come out praising him, hedging their bets or even more, sincerely expressing admiration or respect.

That said, many pro players learn of their new coach from the federation, who may advise the team captains before it goes to press. And almost all come out saying that they are going to be with him and support him and help all they can, respecting his decisions.

That is the role of players. So I don't deny they have one, but it goes no further than that.

But there is no way they should be sitting listening to candidates, it is totally unorthodox, and if we are doing it it is not about innovation or being really up to date, it is about us having a fairly amateur association with little knowledge or experience or even common sense about the right way to do things.

I am really disappointed with this piece of news.

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

In principle it is scandalous and shows the CSA is not on the same planet as the rest of FIFA nations. Really disappointing.

Agreed. But I don't think that Dwayne or any player will have final

say on the coaching selection. It may be just a PR thing, as Grizzly

suggested. CSA still has final say.

I just want them hurry up, pick a coach and get to work. When our

MNT's development is less than Panama's (huge strides), we have a

problem.

[nolando]

gawd...just when you might think that things couldn't get any weirder...and as for the "mystery" fourth candidate, maybe it is DDR in a player-coach role?? nothing to do with the CSA should surprise us at this point ;>

[CanadasBest]

At first I thought that this was pretty weird, but then I remembered that the CSA don't really know what to look for in a good coach... Maybe having a player make the decision is the best option considering we don't have a COO... I don't think there's anything wrong with a player involved in the hiring process, but to actually sit in on the interview is kind of strange.

[proud canuck]

I have never posted on this board before but I follow our player abroad and this message board very closely.

I just want to voice my disgust with the CSA over the last few years and especially the last 6 months.

To have Dwayne DeRo or any player for that matter sitting in the interviews of potential candidates is embarrassing. I know he was sitting in at least one of the other candidates aswell. We have had no national coach for ages, no national games for ages, and when we do get one, we play friggin Bermuda!! Give me a break. That is why we have no respect from people abroad, it's not because of our performances or lack of players. It's because clubs like FC Copenhagen, Deportivo, and Tottenham get international duty requests to go to Bermuda! They laugh!! It's a complete joke! The reason we only have 1 player playing in the Premership is because Canada can't get below 75 in the FIFA rankings, so nobody can get a visa. If we played a game once in a while, we might win, even if we lose, we probably won't drop as many places as we did by not playing!

I for one say Colin Linford and Morgan Quarry should be SACKED! We have to stop these pencil pushers ruining our programs.

I just hope the new coach has the backbone to make some tough decisions and get rid of these guys first!

[RJB]

Not really much I can add to this discussion. I'm on board with most people here that say this is very disappointing.

Question: Why would DeRosario agree to do this?

[Daniel]

At first I thought it was weird, then I realised that the CSA has no CEO or TD. Do we want bureaucrats choosing our coach? And we can't get the youth coaches to chip in because they're both candidates. So either you bring in a soccer person from outside the CSA (doubtful) or you turn to one of your players that's been around and let him help you along.

No one said Dero would have final say, but it could have been a "here's who you might be working with" meeting, which are fairly common in "real" workplaces. Then they ask Dero "what do you think?".

It's unorthodox, but wasn't everyone here clamouring for change?

[Free kick]

The earlier point about Kevin Mckenna being the Captain is worth rementioning. Imagine how he must feel upon hearing of this. As backward and unprofessional as it is to include a player in the FORMAL selection process, they have compounded the problem by favouring a player other than the captain. As I said earlier, there is nothing wrong with seeking an opinion from player(s)on various options. Even in the NBA, the most player oriented league around, the players are consulted heavily. But the key word is "consulted" and the exampe of teh NBA is quite extreme and unique. But not the fomal process and if you are going to do that, you should at least include the captain.

Interviewing, screening, and whole formal selection process is not the job of the players. The players job is to play the game. The feedback of players should be treated in the same way as you treat references. Not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but if this is any indication of the kind of leadership style of Linford, then expect problems down the line. maybe this is what was meant when recently when someone posted a quote from an overseas person who alleging that the organization is screwed up. Funny, but I had never heard those kind words attributed to the CSA in the past even though there is alot criticsm that can be leveled at them. I had automatically assumed some kind of misquote or missinformation. But now I think that there might be more to that.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by proud canuck

That is why we have no respect from people abroad, it's not because of our performances or lack of players. It's because clubs like FC Copenhagen, Deportivo, and Tottenham get international duty requests to go to Bermuda! They laugh!! It's a complete joke!

Sorry, but that's bull.

What do they think when Premier League players go off to play Andorra, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Singapore, any other small Caribbean nation, Moldova...not exactly world beaters, are they?

And we don't get to pick the nations in our region.

Oh, and I guess Argentina think we're such a joke they just may be playing against us, huh?

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Sorry, but that's bull.

What do they think when Premier League players go off to play Andorra, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Singapore, any other small Caribbean nation, Moldova...not exactly world beaters, are they?

And we don't get to pick the nations in our region.

Oh, and I guess Argentina think we're such a joke they just may be playing against us, huh?

It should be noted that Bermuda is a country of approximately 60,000 people living on an island that is 2 miles wide by 12 miles long. Its not going to threaten Canada. To be very clear, I am all for freindlies and even against bermuda. But I can understand that sentiment from over seas with the clubs. bermuda is not a threat to canada in soccer.

I looked at from the standpoint of the message from the poster rather than the specific example of Bermuda. You could just as easily stated Belize. You could make a good case for playing sides like Belize or Bermuda by using domestic or unattached players. Especially in a friendly.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

At first I thought it was weird, then I realised that the CSA has no CEO or TD. Do we want bureaucrats choosing our coach? And we can't get the youth coaches to chip in because they're both candidates. So either you bring in a soccer person from outside the CSA (doubtful) or you turn to one of your players that's been around and let him help you along.

No one said Dero would have final say, but it could have been a "here's who you might be working with" meeting, which are fairly common in "real" workplaces. Then they ask Dero "what do you think?".

It's unorthodox, but wasn't everyone here clamouring for change?

Very Very good point about not having a CEO being at the root of this. I had completely forgotten about that. Its at this point that I realized that Linford is product of the Volunteer system/bureacracy rather than someone with a formal professional background. And this, I supposed, is what you get when you entrust something as important as this to people from the grassroots. I now suspect that things would be very different if there was CEO in place. Maybe someone should tell Linford to put the brakes on hiring process until a CEO is in place.

[loyola]

There's a one week training camp that's coming with the game and we also had Argentina scheduled for a moment.

We need games and the clubs have to releases their players I really don't care about what they're thinking about our scheduling, when we have a game, which is rare so they should consider themselves fortunate that we aren,t playing more often since they would face more injuries related to international duty...

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

The earlier point about Kevin Mckenna being the Captain is worth rementioning. Imagine how he must feel upon hearing of this. As backward and unprofessional as it is to include a player in the FORMAL selection process, they have compounded the problem by favouring a player other than the captain. As I said earlier, there is nothing wrong with seeking an opinion from player(s)on various options. Even in the NBA, the most player oriented league around, the players are consulted heavily. But the key word is "consulted" and the exampe of teh NBA is quite extreme and unique. But not the fomal process and if you are going to do that, you should at least include the captain.

Interviewing, screening, and whole formal selection process is not the job of the players. The players job is to play the game. The feedback of players should be treated in the same way as you treat references. Not to make a mountain out of a mole hill, but if this is any indication of the kind of leadership style of Linford, then expect problems down the line. maybe this is what was meant when recently when someone posted a quote from an overseas person who alleging that the organization is screwed up. Funny, but I had never heard those kind words attributed to the CSA in the past even though there is alot criticsm that can be leveled at them. I had automatically assumed some kind of misquote or missinformation. But now I think that perhaps that quote was serious.

The criticism of DeRo being chosen instead of McKenna is only valid if you know what their relationship is. Obviously it would have been very difficult for McKenna to attend and I doubt very much that the CSA chose DeRo without consulting McKenna beforehand. In fact, it is quite likely that McKenna said I can't go so send DeRo. There is only a problem with DeRo being sent if McKenna or other players have a problem with DeRo being sent and as far as I know DeRo is well liked and respected by his teammates.

There is also far too much speculating about how much influence DeRo has in the interview process. As far as I can see he simply observed the interview process. I have no problem with that nor with the committee members asking him who the best candidate is in his opinion. This is a far cry from him or any of the other players being one of the decision makers or bearing responsibility for the outcome. If DeRo or any player has a vote on who becomes the next coach then I also think this would be wrong but so far I haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. I have no problem with DeRo as an observer, liason for the other players on the procedure or providing the committee with a player's point of view. There is no sense in getting someone who the majority of players don't think will be successful.

I think we have to give the players a bit of credit as well and say that these are highly motivated and ambitious athletes who want to succeed and who dream of playing in a World Cup. To use the Bowman example, if you asked all the NHL teams would they like to play under him I think they would all say yes because despite his toughness he consistently produces winners and is recognized as one of the top coaches in the history of the game. Most players want to win the Stanley Cup and would accept Bowman's methods if that was the price they had to pay. I think if we were to find and afford a coach of Bowman's stature the players would not have any problem with him being a taskmaster.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

The criticism of DeRo being chosen instead of McKenna is only valid if you know what their relationship is. Obviously it would have been very difficult for McKenna to attend and I doubt very much that the CSA chose DeRo without consulting McKenna beforehand. In fact, it is quite likely that McKenna said I can't go so send DeRo. There is only a problem with DeRo being sent if McKenna or other players have a problem with DeRo being sent and as far as I know DeRo is well liked and respected by his teammates.

There is also far too much speculating about how much influence DeRo has in the interview process. As far as I can see he simply observed the interview process. I have no problem with that nor with the committee members asking him who the best candidate is in his opinion. This is a far cry from him or any of the other players being one of the decision makers or bearing responsibility for the outcome. If DeRo or any player has a vote on who becomes the next coach then I also think this would be wrong but so far I haven't seen any evidence that this is the case. I have no problem with DeRo as an observer, liason for the other players on the procedure or providing the committee with a player's point of view. There is no sense in getting someone who the majority of players don't think will be successful.

I think we have to give the players a bit of credit as well and say that these are highly motivated and ambitious athletes who want to succeed and who dream of playing in a World Cup. To use the Bowman example, if you asked all the NHL teams would they like to play under him I think they would all say yes because despite his toughness he consistently produces winners and is recognized as one of the top coaches in the history of the game. Most players want to win the Stanley Cup and would accept Bowman's methods if that was the price they had to pay. I think if we were to find and afford a coach of Bowman's stature the players would not have any problem with him being a taskmaster.

Well the grey area lies in the level of involvement that DeRo had. If we are talking about sitting in on the interview, then IMO they have crossed the line. You cant expect players to be properly trained or have the background to add any value to the process. Nor should he be privy to this kind of information such as who are the final four candidates and who would make the best coach. I could understand and agree with seeking his input on available candidates and on existing candidates before they are called in for interviews. Perhaps seeing his views as a reference amongst others.

[Ivan]

I agree with Grizzly's sentiments above (with the exception of the Bowman comment). Nowhere is it said that DeRo was part of the actual selection process. He could have been there as an observer to report to the other players and someone there for the prospective coach to interview.

In my experience with interviews, one guy said to me that he was there interviewing me and my company rather than the conventional thought. Maybe a guy like Simoes, who is a PH.D. if IRC, wanted to ask a player some questions? Get the feel of the team and vice versa.

With respect to Bowman, players would never pick him, he picks his spots. After Buffalo, a dismal failure because it was a team he actually had to rebuild, he went into situations like Pittsburgh and Detroit, teams that already had a superstar and supporting cast in place. Can you tell I am a bitter Leaf fan?

[RamR]

I agree fully with Grizzly as well. Every point I was going to make was covered succinctly. In today's day in age an organization would be remiss to not get all the information available in order to make a decision of this nature. That includes the view of the current players. In the business world the working culture is tending to a much more collaborative approach and this can easily be said for the professional sports world as well.

I also agree with Ivan's point about interviewees given the opportunity to ask questions of a player.

Possibly it is currently an unorthodox approach to hiring a national team coach however that is not necessarily a bad thing. Canada is not the only national team that has had difficulty hiring the right person to coach their national team the old fashioned way. England comes immediately to mind when looking at nations that might want to review their process of hiring a coach and getting the opinion of John Terry might be a valuable procedure for them.

[The Beaver]

I'm pretty open to new ideas in hiring--especially if the theory behind the decision has been given considerable thought--but try as I have, I still think it is a weird move to have DDR sit in, or take part, in this interview. If it was somebody retired from the program, say Devos or Forrest, then I'd say that this could make some sense. Perhaps they told DeRo he could ask some technical questions--the sort Linford and crew would not know to ask--but to leave matters of personnel, squad selection and other potentially political matters to the executives.

[Canuck Oranje]

First, on Bermuda, this should be seen as a training camp. Second, for the last half of March, Bermuda is only 3 time zones from London and 4 from Europe because of differences between North America and Europe with the time change. The game against Bermuda is really more of a training game.

On staff members being involved in the hiring process for their boss, I don't have a problem with that and it is done by some very good companies. However, a player from a player pool of potential selections is problematic if they actually are seen as being part of the selection committee. At the same time, if the player is there simply to ask a few questions, it may not be an issue. DeRosario is a veterin and so long as he is not directly involved in the meeting where the selection is made, I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem with a player other than the Captain being involved because the union rep on a professional sports team is not necesarily the Captain and the Coach may want to change Captain. I suspect the key reason DeRosario was selected was because he was experienced and available.

I would also expect that DeRosario's primary concern would be to have a Coach that will give them the best chance to win. After all, he realistically only has one shot left at playing in a World Cup Tournament.

My bigger concern is that the interview process be managed professionally and that unsuccessful candidates are treated fairly and in a respectful manner. I know there have been some experienced coaches that have applied. It would be better not to burn bridges because they are likely to reappear somewhere else and they may be useful down the road. The fact that there have been so many leaks of information does not give me any comfort.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

At first I thought it was weird, then I realised that the CSA has no CEO or TD. Do we want bureaucrats choosing our coach? And we can't get the youth coaches to chip in because they're both candidates. So either you bring in a soccer person from outside the CSA (doubtful) or you turn to one of your players that's been around and let him help you along.

No one said Dero would have final say, but it could have been a "here's who you might be working with" meeting, which are fairly common in "real" workplaces. Then they ask Dero "what do you think?".

It's unorthodox, but wasn't everyone here clamouring for change?

You are right mostly Daniel, I agree.

This is why the most normal situation is to NOT have all your youth coaches also applying for the job. So that what would happen is that a federation or association would have its longstanding coaching staff, with their technical knowledge, handling the younger teams and giving support to the senior mens coach, and these guys would be there helping in the selection of a new coach as well.

This for sure happens in Spain, guys like Iñaki Saiz and Giner are longtime Spanish federation coaches, ready to handle what is sent their way, guys working for the program. Saiz ended up as an interim national coach for a while there, then back to the u-20s. These guys are key when the federation decides to hire someone new, as they represent the technical knowledge on the inside that helps focus the selection process for a new coach.

The ideal situation for the CSA would have been to inform Hart and Mitchell that they would NOT be hiring from the inside this time. That way both would be solely focussed on the upcoming championships and qualifiers, on their kids, and they would have been useful to support Linford in selecting a new national coach for the senior men.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by gwallace76

At first I thought that this was pretty weird, but then I remembered that the CSA don't really know what to look for in a good coach... Maybe having a player make the decision is the best option considering we don't have a COO... I don't think there's anything wrong with a player involved in the hiring process, but to actually sit in on the interview is kind of strange.

With regards to the COO, I just read on G-Dob's blog that the CSA had 104 applicants (!) for the job which they have whittled down to 2. That decision should also be made by the end of the month.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

With regards to the COO, I just read on G-Dob's blog that the CSA had 104 applicants (!) for the job which they have whittled down to 2. That decision should also be made by the end of the month.

G-Dobb make a valid point. With the U20 event and the GC just around the corner, getting a COO in place ASAP should be the top priority. But what's the rush in getting a MNT Coach? the CSA is going to be in spotlight around the world over the next six months and if a crisis arises what could be more important than having a COO in place to run things.

When the the summer's events are over and the new guy or woman has had a chance to get settled in, then they could have turned their attention to hiring the MNT coach. That way they would have had the input of the COO to count on.

Again, I fail to see the logic in giving higher priority to the Coach's vacancy over the COO at this time.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

With regards to the COO, I just read on G-Dob's blog that the CSA had 104 applicants (!) for the job which they have whittled down to 2. That decision should also be made by the end of the month.

G-Dobb make a valid point. With the U20 event and the GC just around the corner, getting a COO in place ASAP should be the top priority. But what's the rush in getting a MNT Coach? the CSA is going to be in spotlight around the world over the next six months and if a crisis arises what could be more important than having a COO in place to run things.

When the the summer's events are over and the new guy or woman has had a chance to get settled in, then they could have turned their attention to hiring the MNT coach. That way they would have had the input of the COO to count on.

Again, I fail to see the logic in giving higher priority to the Coach's vacancy over the COO at this time.

[The Ref]

This is a good discussion about the merits of interviewing for a national coach. Let me pose this question: Who do you think should sit on the interview process. A CSA board committee, former coaches i.e. Yallop, an outside consultant i.e. Tony Waiters, more players, a psychologist, a Fifa rep, sports ministry rep, sponsor rep, other coaches or simply entrust the process of selection to a Human Resources Management company.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

This is a good discussion about the merits of interviewing for a national coach. Let me pose this question: Who do you think should sit on the interview process. A CSA board committee, former coaches i.e. Yallop, an outside consultant i.e. Tony Waiters, more players, a psychologist, a Fifa rep, sports ministry rep, sponsor rep, other coaches or simply entrust the process of selection to a Human Resources Management company.

I can tell you for sure the normal situation is this: the national federation/association president, who has a board he has named and is thus there to be consulted, decides as a personal decision who the coach will be nine times out of ten. Someone on the board could be a technical advisor with more knowledge of world football, but just as frequently the national president has an idea and that is the one that holds forth.

This is because all national presidents know the coaches who are nationals, and have a mental list of other foreign coaches that could be interesting. Most of the time there is not even an open selection process, like with this case. Indeed it is the exception.

You then set out contacting people individually and talk to them, and after talking to a handful either directly or through their agents (most quality coaches have agents or reps or lawyers handling their careers) the national president decides.

So asking what is usual in Canada, when they are doing this like the way the director of a local NGO is hired, has little to do with what is usual or normal or standard in the majority of FIFA nations.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I think that that approach makes sence in a culture that is well immersed in the game. That is because the names and background of potential candidates will be familiar to, not only the president but, also the media and populace at large. Therefore the person selected will be more of a figure head and will often have been selected for his name value as much as his accomplishment. A good example might be the selection of Lippi for Italy. Was that really a tough choice to make? Every Italian pretty much knows who he is and his club record speaks for itself.

Plus the high media and fan scruniny assures a certain level of accountability. Its a little different with Canada.. Therefore, unlike choosing a national coach for a nationa Hockey team, I am not sure that the autocratic approach would be good either because you could have a situation where you will have someone who has no clue about the game stuck making the choice with no guidance from anyone. I like a more formal process and consultative approach for canada. But it has to make sence, involve the right parties and be professional.