The Ref Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SF If you are correct in that the Board is essentially accountable to only itself, then any impetus for change would almost certainly have to come from the CSA funders. I know there is grassroots funding, corporate sponsorship and government funding - does anyone know what the proportion of each is? What this entire episode had displayed, more than anything, is that the current Board members are in way over their heads. Reading from an old copy of the CSA constitution the Dominion of Canada Football Association was founded on May 24th 1912 in Toronto and incorporated in 1923 by letters patent under the provisions of the Companies Act. There have been a number of supplementary letters patent dealing with name changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ref Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SF If you are correct in that the Board is essentially accountable to only itself, then any impetus for change would almost certainly have to come from the CSA funders. I know there is grassroots funding, corporate sponsorship and government funding - does anyone know what the proportion of each is? What this entire episode had displayed, more than anything, is that the current Board members are in way over their heads. Reading from an old copy of the CSA constitution the Dominion of Canada Football Association was founded on May 24th 1912 in Toronto and incorporated in 1923 by letters patent under the provisions of the Companies Act. There have been a number of supplementary letters patent dealing with name changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I knew it all along that they only reason for the “delay” was to save more money for the CSA. I have a bad feeling that this might drag on until 3 weeks before the Gold Cup. What a disgrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I knew it all along that they only reason for the “delay” was to save more money for the CSA. I have a bad feeling that this might drag on until 3 weeks before the Gold Cup. What a disgrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Can. in UK Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Dave Some insight from Peter Mallet "The CSA's 19-member board of directors met over the weekend, but could not reach agreement on a contract for Simoes." http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070423.wxsoccan23/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home Truly unbelievable that this is being played out in public. So embarrassing. I wonder how long the board spent debating and approving the budget to order lunch at their meeting? I would have thought it would be easy for 19 people to all agree on something I don't know if this has been deiscussed elsewhere but why are there 19 people on the board? Can I assume that the Yukon is represented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Can. in UK Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Dave Some insight from Peter Mallet "The CSA's 19-member board of directors met over the weekend, but could not reach agreement on a contract for Simoes." http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070423.wxsoccan23/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home Truly unbelievable that this is being played out in public. So embarrassing. I wonder how long the board spent debating and approving the budget to order lunch at their meeting? I would have thought it would be easy for 19 people to all agree on something I don't know if this has been deiscussed elsewhere but why are there 19 people on the board? Can I assume that the Yukon is represented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I think we need to be careful with these press reports. They seem to be an interpretation of old and new information. The new information all seems to be coming from the same press release in each of the press reports with a little interpretation added by highlighting different pieces of information provided. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca This is getting beyond embarassing. How do they expect to hire anybody at this rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I think we need to be careful with these press reports. They seem to be an interpretation of old and new information. The new information all seems to be coming from the same press release in each of the press reports with a little interpretation added by highlighting different pieces of information provided. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca This is getting beyond embarassing. How do they expect to hire anybody at this rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I also count 20 Board members. Seven Officers (eight if you count the non-voting vacant Executive Director position) plus 12 presidents of provincial and territorial associations plus one representing professional soccer. I suppose one other position is currently vacant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I also count 20 Board members. Seven Officers (eight if you count the non-voting vacant Executive Director position) plus 12 presidents of provincial and territorial associations plus one representing professional soccer. I suppose one other position is currently vacant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I agree that transparency is good. The problem here is that these people are transparently incompetent. I have, for some time, thought that the hiring of the new CEO was more important than the hiring of the new coach. This dog and pony show is a good illustration of why. The CSA needs a strong leader to save it from itself. Someone who can see past and work around petty regionalism and in-fighting and achieve success in the long term - not just for 2010. I don't know that this is possible, but I remain hopeful (and, perhaps, naive). Of course, the CEO hiring process hasn't been entirely seemless either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I agree that transparency is good. The problem here is that these people are transparently incompetent. I have, for some time, thought that the hiring of the new CEO was more important than the hiring of the new coach. This dog and pony show is a good illustration of why. The CSA needs a strong leader to save it from itself. Someone who can see past and work around petty regionalism and in-fighting and achieve success in the long term - not just for 2010. I don't know that this is possible, but I remain hopeful (and, perhaps, naive). Of course, the CEO hiring process hasn't been entirely seemless either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndsoccer Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 i've ran into these guys at hotel bar a couple of years ago. they are a bunch of old school drunks!!! no wonder we are the laughing stock. this is a joke...these guys are running the under 20s,,,omg. they are more worried about there bar tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndsoccer Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 i've ran into these guys at hotel bar a couple of years ago. they are a bunch of old school drunks!!! no wonder we are the laughing stock. this is a joke...these guys are running the under 20s,,,omg. they are more worried about there bar tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I see this as a classic "tragedy of the commons" scenario. The grassroots organizations hold Canadian international soccer in low regard and believe that any money spent on it is wasted. They fight to hang onto every nickel "for the kids". The Board reps are simply the representatives of that viewpoint. They enjoy their regular trips to meetings where they are made to feel like VIPs, and don't want to jeopardize those little perks, so they basically echo these shortsighted opinions, so as not to jeopardize their own position of inconsequential (and irrelevant) privelage. So the Board's decisions keep Canada in the soccer Dark Ages, which in turn reinforces the negative stereotype: Soccer is fun for the kids but Canadian soccer is hopeless and colonial. Chicken and egg. The sad part is, if we could somehow break this cycle of penny pinching, and qualify for the WC, there would be a windfall of dollars to everyone, including the recreational and women's programs. It's called investing for the future, but unfortunately it requires the ability to see beyond one's nose. How to break out of this? Two possibilities: 1. Qualify for the World Cup and do something memorable once there: Perhaps an upset win over, say, Republic of Ireland or Denmark. That would awaken us from the doldrums, make Canadians realize that, yes, our guys CAN compete internationally. The sad part is, this would be relatively easy to achieve, if only our team were given the proper support and resources. Still, perhaps our current crop of players are up to the task, even in spite of the CSA. Fingers and toes crossed. 2. Vision and leadership from within. Colin Linford seems to be on our side. He is a refreshing breath of fresh air, and is saying all the right things. It seems more and more apparent that he is encountering a lot of political resistance, but at least he is trying. Will he be the man to change things? Time will tell. But at least someone is trying, after decades of inactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I see this as a classic "tragedy of the commons" scenario. The grassroots organizations hold Canadian international soccer in low regard and believe that any money spent on it is wasted. They fight to hang onto every nickel "for the kids". The Board reps are simply the representatives of that viewpoint. They enjoy their regular trips to meetings where they are made to feel like VIPs, and don't want to jeopardize those little perks, so they basically echo these shortsighted opinions, so as not to jeopardize their own position of inconsequential (and irrelevant) privelage. So the Board's decisions keep Canada in the soccer Dark Ages, which in turn reinforces the negative stereotype: Soccer is fun for the kids but Canadian soccer is hopeless and colonial. Chicken and egg. The sad part is, if we could somehow break this cycle of penny pinching, and qualify for the WC, there would be a windfall of dollars to everyone, including the recreational and women's programs. It's called investing for the future, but unfortunately it requires the ability to see beyond one's nose. How to break out of this? Two possibilities: 1. Qualify for the World Cup and do something memorable once there: Perhaps an upset win over, say, Republic of Ireland or Denmark. That would awaken us from the doldrums, make Canadians realize that, yes, our guys CAN compete internationally. The sad part is, this would be relatively easy to achieve, if only our team were given the proper support and resources. Still, perhaps our current crop of players are up to the task, even in spite of the CSA. Fingers and toes crossed. 2. Vision and leadership from within. Colin Linford seems to be on our side. He is a refreshing breath of fresh air, and is saying all the right things. It seems more and more apparent that he is encountering a lot of political resistance, but at least he is trying. Will he be the man to change things? Time will tell. But at least someone is trying, after decades of inactivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I agree that transparency is good. The problem here is that these people are transparently incompetent. --------------- This is where I disagree. I am as frustrated by the CSA as anyone, but some sense of perspective at WHO you need to be frustrated at is needed. Ok this is a bit of a CSA apologist message, but don't burn me cause I am with you in solidarity my brothers.... These are not exactly offered as explanations for the current situation, just a sense of perspective that the CSA must deal with a level of tunnel vision we can't even comprehend. 1. Who runs the clubs and leagues Consider this conversation with a provincial president just six years ago. I asked him how many players he had in his province. He said he DIDN'T KNOW! Can you believe that? Is he incompetent? No, he figured as many as 20-30 thousand players were in leagues and clubs that REFUSED to have any affiliation with the CSA or the province. These were leagues operating with no insurance or affiliation. How do you deal rationally with people who won't even purchase collective insurance for their OWN CHILDREN! You want to convince these people that their fees should go to paying a Brazilian coach a salary worth more than their house? Climbing Everest would be easier. 2. Many of the clubs in Canada as recently as the late 1990's were not even incorporated. They were a bank account, a name and club house keys handed down from one group of execs to the next. This should give you an idea of how rag tag things have been for decades. 3. Theft. One of the unspoken things we don't talk about in soccer is the amount money that may be missing. More than one club exec has disappeared with an empty bank account from leagues and clubs in this country. I am NOT SUGGESTING this is a major factor at all, just that the diversity of interests in keeping the 'Status Quo' could be extremely varied when on the surface they appear to make no sense. After decades of most of soccer operating as 'ad hoc' organizations it is hard to say what skeletons are in the closet. 4. It is only recently the CSA has been able, utilizing technology and broader changes in the soccer community, to communicate with the soccer community in general at all. It is a relatively recent phenomenon that people even know the name of the CSA or what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest speedmonk42 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I agree that transparency is good. The problem here is that these people are transparently incompetent. --------------- This is where I disagree. I am as frustrated by the CSA as anyone, but some sense of perspective at WHO you need to be frustrated at is needed. Ok this is a bit of a CSA apologist message, but don't burn me cause I am with you in solidarity my brothers.... These are not exactly offered as explanations for the current situation, just a sense of perspective that the CSA must deal with a level of tunnel vision we can't even comprehend. 1. Who runs the clubs and leagues Consider this conversation with a provincial president just six years ago. I asked him how many players he had in his province. He said he DIDN'T KNOW! Can you believe that? Is he incompetent? No, he figured as many as 20-30 thousand players were in leagues and clubs that REFUSED to have any affiliation with the CSA or the province. These were leagues operating with no insurance or affiliation. How do you deal rationally with people who won't even purchase collective insurance for their OWN CHILDREN! You want to convince these people that their fees should go to paying a Brazilian coach a salary worth more than their house? Climbing Everest would be easier. 2. Many of the clubs in Canada as recently as the late 1990's were not even incorporated. They were a bank account, a name and club house keys handed down from one group of execs to the next. This should give you an idea of how rag tag things have been for decades. 3. Theft. One of the unspoken things we don't talk about in soccer is the amount money that may be missing. More than one club exec has disappeared with an empty bank account from leagues and clubs in this country. I am NOT SUGGESTING this is a major factor at all, just that the diversity of interests in keeping the 'Status Quo' could be extremely varied when on the surface they appear to make no sense. After decades of most of soccer operating as 'ad hoc' organizations it is hard to say what skeletons are in the closet. 4. It is only recently the CSA has been able, utilizing technology and broader changes in the soccer community, to communicate with the soccer community in general at all. It is a relatively recent phenomenon that people even know the name of the CSA or what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 According to this CBC article, the choice has been made: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/04/21/soccer-coach.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 According to this CBC article, the choice has been made: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/04/21/soccer-coach.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Again, I think these reports are all coming from the same source. Some reports have mixed in some old information and have highlighted different pieces of information. quote:Originally posted by loyola According to this CBC article, the choice has been made: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/04/21/soccer-coach.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 Again, I think these reports are all coming from the same source. Some reports have mixed in some old information and have highlighted different pieces of information. quote:Originally posted by loyola According to this CBC article, the choice has been made: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2007/04/21/soccer-coach.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 You make good points regarding the issues with the grassroots. I don't disagree with any of that. My point, quite simply, is that the current CSA board has turned the hiring of a coach into pure farce. Everything about this has been a joke - the length of time it has taken, the leaked information to the media (if I were a candidate I would be litigating the living piss out of the CSA for that - confidentiality with respect to employment searches is pretty basic stuff), the ill advised public quotes from Linford (on the who and the when), the inability of the board to get together on short notice, etc.... Let me be very clear - this is exceptionally simple stuff. Any normal professional could pull it off seamlessly. I understand that the board is running a piecemeal organization (they could influence change in this area if they wanted to), but that is no more than an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 You make good points regarding the issues with the grassroots. I don't disagree with any of that. My point, quite simply, is that the current CSA board has turned the hiring of a coach into pure farce. Everything about this has been a joke - the length of time it has taken, the leaked information to the media (if I were a candidate I would be litigating the living piss out of the CSA for that - confidentiality with respect to employment searches is pretty basic stuff), the ill advised public quotes from Linford (on the who and the when), the inability of the board to get together on short notice, etc.... Let me be very clear - this is exceptionally simple stuff. Any normal professional could pull it off seamlessly. I understand that the board is running a piecemeal organization (they could influence change in this area if they wanted to), but that is no more than an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 if money is ths issue Get rid of Evan that should free up some dough. combine both jobs together that way for 500k it will make sure that there is alawys something for the new coach to handle. use the Junior coaches as his assistant as caretaker if there is game conflict. of course If Pipe would have put a clause where a portion of the Stadium name money goes to the CSA before gift wraping money allocated by different level of Government to MLSE the money problem would have been taken care of. even less than 5% would have ensured that we have a coach in place by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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