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Canada named as potential host for 2018 WC


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quote:Originally posted by RJB

Mexico again? There are many other countries who should host it a second or first time before Mexico gets it for an amazing THIRD time!

Yeah, I think he's just paying lip service to Mexico for the very reason you mention. It will be between the US & Canada hosting it, with Canada being the clear underdog, but probably not as much as we would have been without all of the recent & anticipated stadium developments.

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Guest Jeffery S.

We only have one stadium in conditions for the World Cup, and even then it would need a major facelift by those dates. Then we would need 6 more likely, or seven. There is no way in the next ten years Canadians will accept that kind of outlay in stadiums for a one-off event, especially when only half of them will ever see such a use again.

Because as has been seen in the last two cups, and perhaps we will see in part in the next, you have to build top quality stadiums at three times the cost of what we are going to see in Toronto minimum, with great attractive design, and without tracks, and with all kinds of extra services. For what, for a month of soccer? To be then covered over with some artificial surface for Canadian football?

The whole suggestion is absurd, and in the end we don't need it either. What the suggestion is about is keeping Canada in line, in the same block as Warner and Blatter. As is we are given all these little gifts and back rubs and complements, as Warner needs Canada as part of the minority Anglo block in Concacaf. And we go along, and then Blatter is instructed to butter us up with this sort of crap and we get all warm and fuzzy about it, we just soak it up, makes us feel so good.

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A lot can change in four years (FIFA still needs to award the 2014 WC). It should be noted that only one stadium in Brazil is considered today to be up to FIFA standards (one in Curitiba) and they are the favourites for 2014.

If the 2007 U-20 WC is a success, it may not be that much of a stretch to see Canada as the favourite for 2018.

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Incorrect. BC Place will be very suitable once it gets it's Olympic facelift, Toronto's stadium, Commonwealth, potentially another Commonwealth if Halifax wins it, The Big O... Build a new stadium in Calgary, on in Ottawa and you're set. They wouldn't be any worse than the ones in the USA in 94.

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

We only have one stadium in conditions for the World Cup, and even then it would need a major facelift by those dates. Then we would need 6 more likely, or seven. There is no way in the next ten years Canadians will accept that kind of outlay in stadiums for a one-off event, especially when only half of them will ever see such a use again.

Because as has been seen in the last two cups, and perhaps we will see in part in the next, you have to build top quality stadiums at three times the cost of what we are going to see in Toronto minimum, with great attractive design, and without tracks, and with all kinds of extra services. For what, for a month of soccer? To be then covered over with some artificial surface for Canadian football?

The whole suggestion is absurd, and in the end we don't need it either. What the suggestion is about is keeping Canada in line, in the same block as Warner and Blatter. As is we are given all these little gifts and back rubs and complements, as Warner needs Canada as part of the minority Anglo block in Concacaf. And we go along, and then Blatter is instructed to butter us up with this sort of crap and we get all warm and fuzzy about it, we just soak it up, makes us feel so good.

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quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

A lot can change in four years (FIFA still needs to award the 2014 WC). It should be noted that only one stadium in Brazil is considered today to be up to FIFA standards (one in Curitiba) and they are the favourites for 2014.

If the 2007 U-20 WC is a success, it may not be that much of a stretch to see Canada as the favourite for 2018.

I don't know that we'd ever be a favourite since we'd be going up against the US (the only thing we'd have in our favour is that we've never hosted before whereas they have) but I do agree with much of what you say here. Four years ago the thought of Canada having an MLS team (with a season ticket level of 13,000) & three SSS on the way seemed like a pipe dream to most pundits on this board, yet today this is where we stand.

Having said that, I won't exactly be holding my breath. I think the bigger issue isn't so much our own potential capability of holding the tourney 11 years from now, but the desirability of holding in the US & all the $$$ that would come with it.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Alex M

Incorrect. BC Place will be very suitable once it gets it's Olympic facelift, Toronto's stadium, Commonwealth, potentially another Commonwealth if Halifax wins it, The Big O... Build a new stadium in Calgary, on in Ottawa and you're set. They wouldn't be any worse than the ones in the USA in 94.

We need eight stadiums with state of the art design and capacity for 60,000 each. And they can't be indoor, at least not in current terms.

At least every other nation mentioned has large capacity stadiums with grass fields, and literally tens of them. They may not be up to standard, they may have to be redone or reworked. We would have to start from scratch with half a dozen and then do the same reworking and remodelling with Edmonton. The new stadiums in Van, TO and Montreal would be good for team practices or pre-WC friendlies.

If you can't comply with the minimums you can't fit in the people who will want to go, and you can't generate the revenue you have to generate. We won't have those minimums in Canada in ten years time or in twenty, because I can't see the politicians agreeing to that kind of spending, and I can't see corporate dollars getting into it either, especially when we can't find a corporation to put up an extra million Canadian to hire a top quality international coach.

Suggesting that the little "thing" in Toronto is anywhere near, or that the new ones coming in Montreal or Vancouver are anywhere close to what is required is way off. But those stadiums do meet the real demands of the kind of growth we will have in Canadian soccer, and they would be fine for a women's world cup, which I think is ideal.

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You'd probably only need 2 at 60,000 and the rest above 40,000. I don't believe that most of the stadia used in most recent Word Cups were 60,000+ although that is from memory and may be inaccurate. Would they need to be state of the art? I wonder.

I think the point you're are making though, Jeffrey, is valid. I guess if one was to work with the CFL and retro fit those stadiums to permanent 40,000+ with Edmonton and Olympic Stadium/Skydome being the 60,000+ in might make a bit of sense (unfortunately I do not see much support for building new Stadiums and giving them to the CFL a la Man City - most certainly not for the privately owned clubs). I do not think a 42,000 seat stadium in Calgary or Regina would be completely wasted - the Riders FREX currently seating bums on grass for their big games. Some additional operating costs, but not a whole lot over existing, and turf replacement after the tournament was done would be a necessity. Wouldn't be pretty, that is for sure, and in the end, one wonders if it would be good enough. Secure training facilities would be an issue at most potential sites as well.

I don't know. I think it could be something that could be the defribulation that soccer needs in Canada...something to get the provincial associations onside with the CSA in terms of the national programs as there is something in it for them. What could a soccer mandarin want more than hobnobbing with the world's elite? But it is so damned impractical.

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Gordon is right, the stadiums at France 98 were not all gargantuan. Some of them were in the 40,000 range and i believe the Holland Euro 2000 tourny saw similar sized stadia used as well. We have a bunch of CFL stadiums that need facelifts and grass installations and presto. Besides, if FIFA is going to award 2018 to N. America i would be surprised if it was not a joint bid between Canada and the US.

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

We only have one stadium in conditions for the World Cup, and even then it would need a major facelift by those dates...And we go along, and then Blatter is instructed to butter us up with this sort of crap and we get all warm and fuzzy about it, we just soak it up, makes us feel so good.

Much of this rant is completely off-base. Here is the attendance for the most recent Grey Cup held in each host city:

Calgary 43822

Edmonton 62531

Hamilton 38595

Montreal 65255

Ottawa 51242

Regina 50909

Toronto 45863

Vancouver 59157

Winnipeg 44786

Given that the FIFA capacity limit is 40,000 only Hamilton's current stadium could not possibly be brought up to snuff.

Although, my point is not that Canada should count on holding a match at Taylor Field (I would actually be pretty embarrassed to host a WC game in many of these venues).

My point is that there is that there is a need for the required number of stadia in the required size notwithstanding the WC coming to Canada. The World Cup would add major impetus and major funding to stadium projects that a case could be made for building irregardless.

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quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Besides, if FIFA is going to award 2018 to N. America i would be surprised if it was not a joint bid between Canada and the US.

But what do you see as being the benefit to a joint bid from the US side of things? That might be great for us, but I'm having trouble seeing what the US would need our help with. They can (& have) hosted it on their own.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

But what do you see as being the benefit to a joint bid from the US side of things? That might be great for us, but I'm having trouble seeing what the US would need our help with. They can (& have) hosted it on their own.

I totally agree. A joint bid just adds a layer of complication from their perspective.

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The only way I see a joint involving the US would be if they determined that there would be substantial opposition to them holding 2 World Cups within 24 years. Pretty farfetched though and can not think of a reason beyond that why they'd want us tagging along...

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Echo what Gordon wrote, but I don't think the idea is WAY out there.

The stadiums discussion has got me curious, though. I don't see the hurdle as being that particularly large.

8 groups needs 8 stadiums. We've got 4 stadiums which are relatively up to snuff and wouldn't require huge amounts of capitol to meet requirement (BC Place, Commonwealth, Roger's, and The Big Owe). Two others that should be big enough but would need a little more TLC (McMahon and Lansdowne) and one (CanAd Stadium) which may need some serious cash but is overdue for a refit anyway so there's going to be money spent on it with or without a World Cup.

So that leaves us with a relatively small infastructure bill for an event of this scale but still one stadium short.

Big deal.

First province to match federal funding for the venture gets a nice shiny stadium and a World Cup group. Sweet deal.

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It clearly comes down to two things.

Will CONCACAF remain in the rotation?

How will FIFA feel about the US or Mexico hosting again?

If the answers are "yes" and "under no circumstances will we allow either country to host again in 2018", I am confident that Canada will be the host country.

The quality of our bid is a tertiary question. If FIFA is happy to hold the WC in the US or Mexico we have no chance. If they aren't, we have a great chance.

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Except for the stadium issue, we are enormously capable of hosting the World Cup on all other fronts. Yes, stadiums are crucial, but so many other factors are important, too.

If we couldn't get it all to ourselves, I'd be cool with co-hosting with the US, but the US does not believe in sharing--in general--and I cannot see why they'd bother entering a joint bid when they could have it all to themselves. I think most nations in the world would rather play in the US than Mexico, don't you think? The U20 tournament will be a good test of our abilities to run a solid tournament, and I've every faith that we'll deliver.

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The big hurdled would be to justify the expenditures needed to either upgrade or build stadiums. Take the Big O, for example, there you have a perfect stadium for soccer that could seat 72,000; today. But that facility will be over fourty years old in 2018. I highly doubt that it will not be torn down very shortly. It has no use at this time unless you were to fill it with water and turn it into a giant acquarium. Commonwealth stadium is not new either. It was built for games in 1978. Then you have the domed stadiums in Van and Tor.

Tough to say how I feel on this idea. This topic has come up before and i have argued that is possible for Canada and that the CSA should go for it. But my opinion tends to waver on alot. One reason, is that previously, I thought that the investment needed to upgrade or build new facilities could be justified based on the needs of the CFL. That way you don't end up with a bunch of white elephants. But given where I see CFL nowadays, I am not sure that the league is currently at or going to operate at a capacity that will justify 40K seat facilities. The success of Montreal in a 20K facility would seem to be direction of the league is headed. Thats why I just wish the damn league would go back to a sixteen game schedule!!! On the other hand, I'd be curious to see what pans out with Aspers and their plans in Winnipeg. That might be what gets the ball rolling in the other direction and in other cities. And, what ultimately might give us the facilities that would make Canada a good canditate to host the WC. I think that the active involvement and financial health of the CFL will key to what happens with a WC in Canada. I see a partnering opportunity there to the benefit of both the CFL and CSA.

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Again, the stadium and infrastructure problem in Canada is minor compared to Brazil and Brazil is expected to be named the host for 2014. The issues around the Big O in Montreal are no worse than those around the Maracana in Rio.

Heck, even K-Dub (K-W) has the enough private tech cash in the economy to pull a Barueri (a rich Sao Paulo suburb currently building a FIFA standard 40,000 seat stadium on the fringes of SP)if they chose to do so. Seriously though, the private cash is available in Canada and only needs to find the financial opportunity in soccer. Again, that is the greatest value to the sport of having MLSE and the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan involved. If they show others that there is an opportunity, others will follow. Out of that comes the opportunities for Canadian players.

My main point is still. A lot can change in four years. We could have three MLS franchises and talk of more by then.

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