Winnipeg Fury Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Cuba, T&T, Haiti, Guadeloupe Canada, Mexico ,USa Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador Canada, no coach and no preperation. Realistically, I can't see Canada being anything better but mid-table out of CONCACAF for this Gold Cup. The opposition from the Caribbean and Central America have played numerous exhibition and qualifying matches, and are essentially well-oiled machines at this point. If we don't have our new coach in place for this rumoured Bermuda camp, I can't see Canada reaching the semi-finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Can. in UK Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 It's becoming embarassing. Perhaps we should send our U-20's to compete as the MNT - they seem to be more prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Like I've said for the prep, the CSA need at least to know where we are going to play our games before scheduling anything (ex: Honduras in Burnaby in 2005 when we were playing our games in California). BTW, it doesn't mean that we'll have prep, just that it is understandable at the moment that no games were announced for the pre-GC period. I agree that we need the new coach in place by the month of March and at least 3 games prior to the tournament. So that means, a game or two at the end of March and one or two games prior to the tournament in June or late may. Do we know when the groups will be announced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury Canada, no coach and no preperation. Realistically, I can't see Canada being anything better but mid-table out of CONCACAF for this Gold Cup. The opposition from the Caribbean and Central America have played numerous exhibition and qualifying matches, and are essentially well-oiled machines at this point. If we don't have our new coach in place for this rumoured Bermuda camp, I can't see Canada reaching the semi-finals. No doubt, it doesn't look good so far. But consider the circumstances in the year that we won the whole thing. Many players had turned down the invitation, I didn't recall much in the way of preparation, and Holger had trouble finding players to round out the squad. As far as coaching, the US is in no better shape and they are taking flack in some quarters for their inactivity. I dont mind waiting a while longer in getting a coach if it means getting the right guy. As long as someone is in place at least a year before WCQ starts, I dont see any problems. As I noted, the US is in no rush to fill their vacancy either. So if the CSA wants to wait until after the U20 then go for it. If Mitchell is sucessfull at the WYC, then they have their man. If he is not, then they can look elsewhere. If I were the CSA, I think that I would do the same thing right now. What bang for the buck are you getting if you had hired a coach shortly after Yallop left and have the guy sit around for a year or two when there are no games of very high significance to be played. Plus, unlike the past, there are very few (if any) players that have not been looked at. Yallop and Hart have called alot of different players to the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick No doubt, it doesn't look good so far. But consider the circumstances in the year that we won the whole thing. Many players had turned down the invitation, I didn't recall much in the way of preparation, and Holger had trouble finding players to round out the squad. As far as coaching, the US is in no better shape and they are taking flack in some quarters for their inactivity. Personnally, I dint mind waiting a while longer in getting a coach if it means getting the right guy. As long as someone is in place at least a year before WCQ starts, I dont see any problems. As I noted, the US is in ow rush to fill their vacancy either. So if they want to wait until after the U20 then go for it. If Mitchell is sucessfull at the WYC, then they have their man. If he is not, then they can look elsewhere. Elvis Thomas??? As someone said in the Bermuda thread, the CSA has always said (since firing Pipe) that a new coach would be in place by March. I think to have a new coach by the GC is very important due to the fact that we will be playing at least 3 teams (maybe more if we go to the second round or play pre GC friendlies) from CONCACAF and possible opponent in 2008/2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think they should announce the groups soon. If I remember correctly in 2005 they announced them only a week or so after the last qualifying games, and that tournament was in July, not June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Free kick If I were the CSA, I think that I would do the same thing right now. What bang for the buck are you getting if you had hired a coach shortly after Yallop left and have the guy sit around for a year or two when there are no games of very high significance to be played. Plus, unlike the past, there are very few (if any) players that have not been looked at. Yallop and Hart have called alot of different players to the team. That's what they did in 1998 when we let Jamaica go to the GC instead of us. We only played one game I think, but they saved money and hired Holger in 1999, we played a bunch of friendlies from april 1999 to the start of the GC in 2000 (in fact we played 12 games, 9 friendlies and 3 GCQ). That was a lot of games in less than a year. I hope we're presently looking at the same thing right now, not a lot of games in order to afford more games for the new coach prior to the beginning of WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Can. in UK It's becoming embarassing. Perhaps we should send our U-20's to compete as the MNT - they seem to be more prepared. Actually, I wonder if there is more to this than we might think. If the CSA is pretty darn certain they want Mitchell, maybe they are dragging their feet on this because they want to wait until after the WYC. Which makes no sense to me, but this is the CSA, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Point taken. But consider what the GC really is. Dont get me wrong, I look forward to this event and follow it with a great deal of passion and anticipation. But our rivals dont take it very seriously thus putting too many eggs in the GC basket can have its repercussions. For example, I still maintain that our success at the GC in 2000 had a negative impact on our subsequent WCQ efforts. When the time came to face T&T in EDmonton, their coach knew everything about us and knew exactly what to do as far as a game plan. And, it worked to perfection because he knew what our flaws were. Namely, that Corrazin's GC scoring prowess was a fluke and that we are a team that has problems in the final third of the pitch. I still recall a quote from him following the game where he stated something to the effect that they ( Canada )will have trouble scoring so we ( TNT) have to be patient, suck the pressure, and wait to pounce on a counter attack with Dwight Yorke. Of course we were stupid to actually force them to play a freindly against them in May of that year. A game whereby TNT sent a weaker squad and had initially wanted to cancel the game after learnig that they would be in the same group as us. So we played them twice in a span of 18 months before WCQ and that gave them a peak at the cards in our hand. A second reason why our success in 2000 hurt us in WCQ was that it made players, coaches, fans and the CSA cocky and overconfident. Many voyageurs were making plans to go to south east asia. The resulting spat between Razinski and Holger over the fact that he bailed on the GC squad, resulted in Rad being left off permanently. With the success of the GC, everyone ( including Holger) figured that we didn't need him. Problem is we desprately did but the GC success gave the false impression. In that same year, Rad had enjoyed the "best season ever" by a canadian in Europe by scoring tons of goals in Belgium and Champions league against big clubs. This resulted in a big transfer to Everton and he was ( until his injury later that year) one of the top marksmen in the EPL. Man, could have we used Rad in 2000!!!!! Imagine what could have been had we had Rad instead of Corrazin. Therefore, Lets hope for the best in the GC. But lets not tip our poker hand. Its better for Canada to stay with steven hart for that tourny anyways. Hopefully we will have learned from history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 We need the games. It is an opportunity to call our A team and have them together for 3 weeks, play some games and get some on field familiarization happening. The GC is less than a year ahead of our first WCQ games and if we have the misfortune to draw Haiti or Cuba a lack of preparation will be fatal. Its been tough enough going out in the semi's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by The Beaver Actually, I wonder if there is more to this than we might think. If the CSA is pretty darn certain they want Mitchell, maybe they are dragging their feet on this because they want to wait until after the WYC. Which makes no sense to me, but this is the CSA, after all. Its a pretty good win win situation for the CSA when you think about it. What better way could there be to assess his abilities than seeing what happens at the WYC? I'd be more concerned if September arrives and we still dont have an MNT coach. As far as preparation and friendlies, I still think that quality and timming is just as important as quantity. For example, leading up to the last WCQ cycle, I dont think that we lacked quantity. We played quite a bit of friendlies against good opposition in the 12-18 months prior. But the big problem was that we were totally inactive between the Belize ties and the first game against Guatemala. In retrospect, I'd gladly exchange 2-3 of these games against the Euro opposition in 2003-4 for one freindly on Cnd soil in July or august of 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gordon We need the games. It is an opportunity to call our A team and have them together for 3 weeks, play some games and get some on field familiarization happening. The GC is less than a year ahead of our first WCQ games and if we have the misfortune to draw Haiti or Cuba a lack of preparation will be fatal. Its been tough enough going out in the semi's... Well it depends what you mean by fatal. If you mean getting bounced in the group stage, well that has happened recently to Canada. So it cant get any worst. I think the MNT program's success in soccer is judged by WCQ. Outside of the small number of us here, there is little emphasis paid to the GC. We got a bit of a bounce from the success in 2000 since subsequent to that we had strong crowds in the friendly in Toronto and a nice 25K fans who showed up for the WCQ in Edmonton. But those were short lived bounces because the WCQ results set everything back. IMO, the more "lasting boosts" to the program would be a qualification to the WC. Again, I like the GC and look forward to it, but it has become a " been there done that" event for Canada. __________________________________________________________ Subsequent Edit: Sorry I misread your comment: " if we have the misfortune to draw Haiti or Cuba a lack of preparation will be fatal". I thought that you meant facing Cuba or Haiti in The GC rather than WCQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yeah, was made in reference to World Cup Qualifying. I agree that the best "boost" is to qualify for the WC. But I think the establishment of a decent Canadian reputation or pedigree includes strong performances in the Gold Cup as well. Recall the attention the US gave it while trying to establish their bona fides in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I found this article on the front page of the CSA. Says that Miami will host the final. I thought Chicago had it. Is this true or just a case of a typical CSA overlook? http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/media/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=2623 Heres a piece: "The 2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup takes place 6 to 24 June in the United States. Games will take place in Miami, FL (Orange Bowl, including the final), East Rutherford, NJ (Giants Stadium), Carson, CA (Home Depot Center), Houston, TX (Reliant Stadium), and Foxborough, MA (Gillette Stadium). CONCACAF will unveil the groups and the complete calendar for the tournament in early March." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 The U-20 idea is not a half-baked idea at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by nolando The U-20 idea is not a half-baked idea at all. This shouldn't even be considered. This is a terrible idea, and it would bring shame to our entire program. Amateur is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by RJB This shouldn't even be considered. This is a terrible idea, and it would bring shame to our entire program. Amateur is what it is. Yes, stupid idea, we would go down further in the FIFA rankings and those same U_20's who are looking for a job in Europe would miss a chance to get works permit and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Yes, stupid idea, we would go down further in the FIFA rankings and those same U_20's who are looking for a job in Europe would miss a chance to get works permit and stuff like that. The work permit/FIFA ranking issue is for England only as pretty much the rest of world recognizes that the best players are the best players irrespective of their national team ranking. Additionally, this only applies to those who have played in at least 75% of the national team games over a 2 year period, so the players effected are the senior nats. There are exceptions for players who can convince a panel that they are exceptional talents, but other than that, our FIFA ranking is largely irrelevant except for National team members (say like Hutchinson) who can not demonstrate an english grandparent. But I do agree that sending the U-20s is not the way to go. Heck even the Brazilians send their U-23 team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 quote:Originally posted by loyola Yes, stupid idea, we would go down further in the FIFA rankings and those same U_20's who are looking for a job in Europe would miss a chance to get works permit and stuff like that. I think it's more of a comment on how poorly we are preparing our World Cup team for any meaningful competition. If we can't even take the Gold Cup serious, I don't see Canada qualifying for the World Cup anytime soon. Playing a couple of games prior to either the Gold Cup or World Cup is a joke if we think this will amount to serious preperation. Out of all the Gold Cup contenders, we rank somewhere between 7-9, IMHO. And unless these countries take their foot off the gas pedal (probably the opposite), I don't see this changing. Let's look at how a country like Panama have progressed in the past decade. They have gone from being an automtic 3 pts for Canada, to becoming a regional powerhouse, who are today playing for the Central American Championship and made the final of the last Gold Cup: 2/07 - Panama 1-0 Costa Rica 2/07 - Honduras 1-1 Panama 1/07 - Panama 2-1 T&T 1/07 - Panama 1-1 Armenia 11/06 - El Salvador 0-0 Panama 11/06 - Panama 1-2 Peru 11/06 - T&T 2-1 Panama 10/06 - Panama 1-0 El Salvador 9/06 - Guatemala 1-2 Panama 8/06 - Peru 0-2 Panama The newly crowned Caribbean champions Haiti, have played 14 matches in this same period. World Cup bound T&T have played 10 matches. In this same period, Canada has played a mere 3 matches, two of which were losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Costa Rica crowned Central American champions after going to PK's. Panama and Costa Rica were tied 1-1 after regulation time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Can. in UK It's becoming embarassing. Perhaps we should send our U-20's to compete as the MNT - they seem to be more prepared. You know, I actually love this idea, assuming there'd be no scheduling conflicts. The top teams don't send their best lineups anyways so why should we? Though, some would argue that the u20 team that have cohesion could beat our mnt. I'm loving this idea. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 We are a Gold Cup champ, it is the only competition we have a real possibility of winning, pretty well ever, involves qualifying out of the group any damn way possible then playing three great games. And people are proposing we throw it? I find that offensive, frankly, especially since any time an invited team comes in with their B squad, everyone bitches about them not taking it seriously. And now we are going to do it? No way. I think we should try to win the Gold Cup every time it comes around, it would be like those club teams that can't win a league but do win the national Cup: is that such an unreasonable ambition for Canada? Or would folks much prefer to live in the clouds, since you are not going to even get into the HEX if you can't take a competition like Gold Cup seriously. Nor should you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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