An Observer Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Checking the Dutch expatica website...it seems the issue of dual nationality is alive and well in the Netherlands. It still is unclear if the Dutch will limit it further (or abolish it). It also seems that in practice they don't apply exceptions anyway. http://my.expatica.com/c:nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83274 I am curious to see whether in the current political climate if De Guzman will go for it in the end. It seems to me that he is hesitating if he has not applied yet. He has been eligible to apply for about 18 months and as he himself has stated, a EU passport would make it easier to play anywhere in the EU (in particular England). Also, it will take him 6 to 12 months to get it (including passing the naturalisation test) so he will not be playing for them any time soon. Also, considering some of the comments made on the expat site and what I know from friends in the Netherlands, you have to wonder why anyone would want to take out Dutch citizenship these days and play for a country that seems to have quite a racist undertone to its operations these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Yes the issue of Dutch Citizenship is very confusing because it has changed a few times and has become more difficult even for those of Dutch Heritage (I don't think it matters much now). A key point to throw in here though is that the choice of which country you play for does not necessarily mean you have to have passport for that country. The FIFA rules are independent of each individual country's citizenship rules. However, DeGuzman does not have a Dutch parent or grandparent so he has no choice but to get citizenship in order to qualify. I just a little surprised it took DeGuzman's people this long to figure the Dutch citizenship issue out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Just a few points: 1. Conrad Black should be an example to DeGuzman of how Canadians feel about those that renounce citizenship. 2. If DeGuzman is as good as all the hype, where he is from won't matter. Teams will want him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 According to an article published in the KNVB news,(the Dutch Soccer federation news),Marco Van Basten said that Jonathan Deguzman is a very good player who would be invited to the Dutch camp,since he has that Dutch experience as well.It all depends if he wants to apply for his Dutch passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 English version,from Skysport, Link Dutch one, http:www.frgoals.nl/index.php? subaction=showfull&id=117614212&archive=&start_from=&ucat=& <mod>Cleaned up one of the links. Couldn't get the Dutch one to work properly.</mod> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Well... no concrete decision yet ... Still crossing my fingers that he'd don the red jersey ... ... but I'm not holding my breath either. With all due respect, life goes on with a team of Will Johnson, David Edgar, Ryan Gyaki, Jamie Peters, Rob Friend, Paul Stalteri, Kevin McKenna, Andrea Lombardo, Dwayne De Rosario, Julian de Guzman, Issey Nakajima, et. al. ... you know, guys who are not afraid to represent their country ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Also, the way Atiba Hutchinson has continued to up his form since the winter break finished is most encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Would be nice to see something of a similar nature coming out of the mouth of Colin Linford now and Job 1 for Coach ? to make it very clear that JDG2 is wanted by Canada. But like Redhat, I am crossing my fingers but not holding my breath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty_TorontoFC Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 Holland's most respected football journalist Johan Derksen has said in a football talkshow yesterday that JDG2 has made a final decision about his international career. He will be playing for Holland and he has already started procedures necessary to obtain the Dutch nationality.... http://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=39176 The csa has got to amke playing for Canada a number one choice outside of club commitments. Getting a new manager on board and getting games should have been done by now not left to this late date. Showing a commitment to not only winning but advancing out of the Concacaf region at world cup time on a regular basis then you will see players wanting to play for Canada, but the must act asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkhs Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 I'm sure this has been suggested previously, but to my eye it seems like he must be waiting to see what direction the CSA is going to take with a Coach/TD...either that or he has made up his mind and has just yet to announce his intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 quote:Originally posted by gkhs I'm sure this has been suggested previously, but to my eye it seems like he must be waiting to see what direction the CSA is going to take with a Coach/TD...either that or he has made up his mind and has just yet to announce his intentions. I'm not sure the choice of the Canadian coach will matter that much for him. Of course, if he can feel the CSA is serious about our MNT program it might help getting him but I'm not even sure that would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Skysport says that they have dual nationality which is wrong. In the Dutch version it makes reference to becoming Dutch,which I stated before. A huge difference. besides if they are Dutch what is Van basten waiting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Transferred ,see Jonathan wins honours with Feyenoord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Can someone please edit the title of this thread!? It startled the **** out of me until i realized it was an old thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexintoronto Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 http://www.kickabola.com/showthread.php?p=18298#post18298 (Interview with Julian between Guadalupe and Haiti games during Gold Cup 2007.) Originally Posted by TO DEVILS Me: The reason i ask is i don't see the Canadian players receiving the same level of support from their federations as others do. I know is not your decision, but having your brother playing alongside you on the NT is it a dream or still a possibility? J Guzman: Having my brother playing with me is a massive dream whether its international or club level. Even to play against him would be a dream. I still see a possibility for him to play with the mens national team because he hasn't decided for Holand yet. He wants to make sure he makes the right choice more importantly for himself. So there is nothing wrong with him taking his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Seems to me that the longer it takes the less likely he will play. I think we have already lost him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Paddy Seems to me that the longer it takes the less likely he will play. I think we have already lost him. I feel the opposite. To me, it would seem that if he wanted to play for Holland, he would've made himself available for the Under-21 Championships currently going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john tv Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 It seems to me that he is waiting for an invitation from Van Basten and in turn that invitation will only come if he elects to get a Dutch passport and that I don't know.Van Basten has made it very clear that he would be invited to attend the Dutch training camp.So it seems again that it is up to Jonathan to decide and with his brother it appears pushing him to play for Canada ,well anything is possible.I would love to see him put on that Canadian shirt and this is very personal, saying to my Dutch friends if he elects Holland " he came from my home town and i know Jonathan and his family",but that is being very selfish. I don't know guys whatever he does I guess he is the boss in his own life and whatever he decides let's support him,but do I want him to play for Canada rather than Holland ,the answer is a very big YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I feel the opposite. To me, it would seem that if he wanted to play for Holland, he would've made himself available for the Under-21 Championships currently going on. I seem to remember hargreaves dragging his feet for awhile (and even saying he woukd play for Canada). He, I believe, also had the opportunity to play for the England under 21 (or maybe even did in a non-cap situation while still maintaining an interest in Canada). Yes, different people, but I am not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 It doesn't make sense for Jonathon to play youth for either nation. If he does, then the opportunity to switch runs only until he is 21. If he does not, then his window of opportunity to switch does not expire until he actually makes a choice and earns a senior cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gordon It doesn't make sense for Jonathon to play youth for either nation. If he does, then the opportunity to switch runs only until he is 21. If he does not, then his window of opportunity to switch does not expire until he actually makes a choice and earns a senior cap. You're right, but my point was that if he's already decided in his head to play for Holland internationally, then he would've got his affairs in order for the U21 Championship. Within Europe there seems to be more prestige accorded to that tournament than to the U20 World Cup. The fact that he didn't tells me that it isn't as foregone a conclusion as some might think. Of course, I may just be overly optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Can we please, pretty please, with sugar on top change the frickin' title of this thread!?!?!?!! The thread was started based on a rumour that was unfounded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gordon It doesn't make sense for Jonathon to play youth for either nation. If he does, then the opportunity to switch runs only until he is 21. If he does not, then his window of opportunity to switch does not expire until he actually makes a choice and earns a senior cap. Sorry don't agree. You only go around once, one chance to play in a World Youth Cup. Like all or most of the great players in history. Put your name alongside them, experience what it means. He hums and haws, and one potentially beautiful part of your career is gone. What is next? His season was not good enough this last year to warrant a Dutch call-up for the seniors, though maybe last year it was. So you go up and down. Injuries happen. So take your chances while you can. If you can't decide, well then the chances slip by. Since he has lived in one city as a player, played for one time, we would have to conclude: the kid has never had to make a decision. Maybe he is old enough to make one now, and maybe if he had, he would have been able to enjoy another little bit of a footballer's career. He'll like miss the Olympics as well. I predict he'll end up as a journeyman like his brother, in a decent league, and will have no choice, at age 24, to play with us. And he won't make that much of a difference, as he will have missed his moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Gordon It doesn't make sense for Jonathon to play youth for either nation. If he does, then the opportunity to switch runs only until he is 21. If he does not, then his window of opportunity to switch does not expire until he actually makes a choice and earns a senior cap. Good point and from his perspective it makes sense. Beyond that, I dont really see what there is to speculate about. It seems pretty obvious to me; He'll play for Canada only if his career doesn't pan out in terms or reaching soccer stardom. Either way you look at its a lose lose proposition in that we will get him only if he is not good enough for Holland. And, if he is not good enough for Holland, how much leverage can he provide for the canadian program? It would be like the farm team adding a good player rather than a great player. What the MNT has needed for a very long time is "Great Players" . This exactly the same as Owen Hargreaves and Terry Dunfield. In OH's case, it worked out in that he capped by England. In TD's case?, well, last we heard is that he was toiling in the lower reaches of the english football universe. Completely off the CSA radar and justifiably so. The difference between Jon. DG and OH is that he is going about it in a away that is more honnest and up front. Hence more palateable to us fans. Plus we are talking about Holland, a country that helped develop him as a soccer player, rather England ( in OH's case) a county that did nothing for his development whereas Germany did. Because I see this as a lose lose situation for Canadian soccer, I have very much moved on from this story. On second thought, I dont think that I was ever really all that interested in it from the start precsisely because of these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Sigma Is it bad that I don't even care if he plays for Canada? Yes. How many other players are of his calibre, at his age, are able to represent Canada? He is better than Lensky. He is better than Edgar. In fact, he is probably better than more if not every single player in our player pool. Having him represent Canada would be a huge boost, hence as a Canadian soccer supporter I think caring is in order. Plus, we've seen how one DeGuzman can take over a game, imagine two! PS: I agree with the notion of changing the title of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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