Guest Ed Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 quote:Originally posted by masster I did read the article with Dero. I think he agrees with me. He believes like I do that the talent is there to "qualify for something". They just need to be supported properly for that to happen. That's the key thing. He knows that the CSA has not supported our talent properly and even goes so far to suggest the CNMT be under the auspices of a group entirely independent of the CSA. The CSA could not organize a piss-up in a brewery and have shown time and time again that they neither have the heart nor the smarts to give our CMNT half a chance of qualifying out of CONCACAF. And history is about to repeat itself with 4 f*ing games played in 2006 (one a 'B' team match) and no coach in sight for the 2010 qualifying games coming up soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis Armada Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 CSA’s attitude is the same as America’s attitude you just have to look at the women’s national team fiasco. It also goes for the MNT, the unfortunate part is that our young talents are finding other options such as playing for another country. Not sure about poaching cause we have players on our MNT that aren’t born in Canada. The bottom line is that if our young talents are good enough to play for a stronger soccer nation, they opt for it. Vise versa and if a player isn’t good enough to make their national team, they opt for a country that they can make the team ie. Canada. CSA has to have an attractive program that would convince players that they are serious about qualifying for the World Cup and CSA should start with a coach. I don’t believe that players like Owen, JDG2, Lensky, DeJong are opting for $$, IMHO they’re opting for their dream and every soccer player’s dream of participating in the World Cup. quote:Originally posted by Alex M Blame the CSA? Blame De Guzman's father? Blame JDG2??? I say blame Canada for making it increasingly difficult to be a proud Canadian, instead telling immigrants and family members of immigrants to embrace their own culture. The more I think about it, the more I like America's 'our way or get out' attitude. It's funny how poaching is unethical on so many levels unless it's in professional sports. I for one hope that he gets rejected for a passport and Canada turns his back on him... Assuming this article is true. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 quote:Originally posted by masster This is the phrase that really pisses me off. Who believes this? If we had all of our players that would have been eligible to play for us, I believe we could qualify for something. Imagine a midfield with JDG1, JDG2, OH and Atiba. I'm talking about the best midfield in CONCACAF! Sure OH is gone, but if JDG2 played for Canada do you not think we would instantly be that much better? A creative midfielder that could deliver from set pieces is exactly what we are missing. hey, i have as much optimism as anyone, but qualifying for one world cup in 18 tries and not even making the top 6 in the conference last time is a harsh dose of reality...maybe i should have said 'almost' never qualifies for anything, but it is still the truth....i hope like you that one day that players will think that we have a real chance and choose canada, but 1/18th of the time is not good odds....especially when the option is a country like england that always makes it or holland who make it half the time. nevermind that we will never qualify for the euro's and the gold cup is no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokey1 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Curtis Armada CSA’s attitude is the same as America’s attitude you just have to look at the women’s national team fiasco. It also goes for the MNT, the unfortunate part is that our young talents are finding other options such as playing for another country. Not sure about poaching cause we have players on our MNT that aren’t born in Canada. The bottom line is that if our young talents are good enough to play for a stronger soccer nation, they opt for it. Vise versa and if a player isn’t good enough to make their national team, they opt for a country that they can make the team ie. Canada. CSA has to have an attractive program that would convince players that they are serious about qualifying for the World Cup and CSA should start with a coach. I don’t believe that players like Owen, JDG2, Lensky, DeJong are opting for $$, IMHO they’re opting for their dream and every soccer player’s dream of participating in the World Cup. bravo now all you to ask why to these players and your have your answer most of them will say its a joke here starting with the top down to the coach... players are not stupid they know all more then you or i think beside this attudude of canadian sytle soocer is nonsense and when they go else where to europe for example they say thank god that im here. pleae dont take this personal im just trying toi say I'm disppointed to see many players leave us here because they (canada) has obsultiy nothing to offer any young stars, to remain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 It is my view that the CSA has an opportunity right now to reshape itself. It has three key positions to fill and are in the process of filling. While some on this board have been criticizing the CSA for not hiring quickly, I hope the Association took the opportunity to rethink how the whole organization is structured (DeRosario's comments would support that). It is not often that a National association has the opportunity to rethink itself without having to deal with incumbants in some positions. Assuming that process is complete, the CSA can better evaluate the applications for each position. I think it is often difficult to see the reality because there is so much speculation around these processes. As well, it would be unprofessional of the CSA to give a constant running commentary of where they are in the process and who has applied for each of the positions. I only hope that it now holds to the commitments it has stated, like to have a coach in place by March. I also don't think the Alex M tantrum is the solution either. Closing our borders to immigrants is a sure way to third world status. And it won't make our Men's National Team any better. On what the CSA needs to offer, it needs to give Canadian players the best opportunity to succeed in the sport. That means raising money (through sponsorships, etc.), overseeing (not necessarily operating) development programs, putting the best people available in place to maximize success in its National Team programs and administering the sport within Canada. It is still up to each individual player to find their own success within that structure. This may not be the place for this discussion but I have a concern about the NTC system because it attempts to take over the development process for young players. As a result, it gives the impression (whether its true or not) that local clubs are not capable of doing that. Small things like not listing a young player's home club when they are selected to a national youth team are hurtful at best (even the NBA and NFL constantly broadcast College affiliations of players). I think the NTCs (and the CSA) should do more to link back to club teams (and private development groups for that matter). After all, we all are playing on the same development team. There is no room for petty politics and it's time to get on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 NTC's are additional/supplementary. They do NOT take away from local clubs' training - they merely add to the available competitive environment for the top players which local clubs cannot satisfy. It's no different than is done in any other country. It's no different than moving Wayne Rooney ahead of his age group in the Everton system to give him competitive games. No one sees it as "nana, we can train them properly and you can't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 While I share you hopes regarding the CSA Canuck Oranje, I am not optimistic that this is not simply a budget saving excercise and that there is a pre-ordained solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I don't think anyone can say no one. That assumes perfect knowledge. I do think that there is a place for local clubs to be listed when a player gets selected for a national team. Maybe I am being a little harsh, but, local development is given a far higher profile in the other countries, at least, those where I have had contact with people involved in player development. Maybe it's only optics but it needs to be addressed. quote:Originally posted by bettermirror NTC's are additional/supplementary. They do NOT take away from local clubs' training - they merely add to the available competitive environment for the top players which local clubs cannot satisfy. It's no different than is done in any other country. It's no different than moving Wayne Rooney ahead of his age group in the Everton system to give him competitive games. No one sees it as "nana, we can train them properly and you can't." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I guess we will know in a month or so. Let's just say I have reason to remain optimistic until then. quote:Originally posted by Gordon While I share you hopes regarding the CSA Canuck Oranje, I am not optimistic that this is not simply a budget saving excercise and that there is a pre-ordained solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 May 26, 2007 (CP) The Canadian Soccer Association today announced the roster for the upcoming CONCACAF Gold Cup. Interim National Team coach Stephen Hart has agreed to handle the men's National Team coaching duties for the duration of the tournament. "It is a great privelage to continue to act as Canadian head coach during this interim period" said Hart. "We are developing a strong comeraderie on the team, in preparation for World Cup Qualifying. The team will feature the return of several key veterans, who will provide inspirational leadership as Canada looks to emulate its Gold Cup championship in 2000. Joining the team after several years' hiatus will be Nick Dasovic, Mark Watson, Colin Miller, Geoff Aunger, Carlo Corrazin and Pat Onstad. In addition, several new players will earn their first cap, including 16 year old Blerim Yankovich, currently the leading scorer in the Red Deer Alberta Interscholastic league, and John Merritt, a British citizen who is eligible to represent Canada due to a grandparent having been born while his mother was serving in the merchant marine in Canadian waters. Merritt is currently unattached, having been released by Torquay United Football Club. CSA President Colin Linford, who is also serving as Head of Delegation for this tournament, stated that "We are confident in the current direction of the Men's National Team, and anticipate filling the Head Coaching position during the fourth quarter of this year." Not available for the Gold Cup were Julian DeGuzman, who will be attending his brother Jonathan's first international match for Holland. Tomasz Radzinski was forced to pull out of the tournament due to a severe headache. Paul Stalteri was also forced to withdraw due to injury, although he was later quoted in a British tabloid as saying "Why the #**# bother?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Dave May 26, 2007 (CP) The Canadian Soccer Association today announced the roster for the upcoming CONCACAF Gold Cup. Interim National Team coach Stephen Hart has agreed to handle the men's National Team coaching duties for the duration of the tournament. "It is a great privelage to continue to act as Canadian head coach during this interim period" said Hart. "We are developing a strong comeraderie on the team, in preparation for World Cup Qualifying. The team will feature the return of several key veterans, who will provide inspirational leadership as Canada looks to emulate its Gold Cup championship in 2000. Joining the team after several years' hiatus will be Nick Dasovic, Mark Watson, Colin Miller, Geoff Aunger, Carlo Corrazin and Pat Onstad. In addition, several new players will earn their first cap, including 16 year old Blerim Yankovich, currently the leading scorer in the Red Deer Alberta Interscholastic league, and John Merritt, a British citizen who is eligible to represent Canada due to a grandparent having been born while his mother was serving in the merchant marine in Canadian waters. Merritt is currently unattached, having been released by Torquay United Football Club. CSA President Colin Linford, who is also serving as Head of Delegation for this tournament, stated that "We are confident in the current direction of the Men's National Team, and anticipate filling the Head Coaching position during the fourth quarter of this year." Not available for the Gold Cup were Julian DeGuzman, who will be attending his brother Jonathan's first international match for Holland. Tomasz Radzinski was forced to pull out of the tournament due to a severe headache. Paul Stalteri was also forced to withdraw due to injury, although he was later quoted in a British tabloid as saying "Why the #**# bother?" I'm not too sure whether to laugh or be upset at the joke. Our country will go on whether or not the De Guzman brothers fulfill the opportunity to play together, or whether or not other guys with huge potential (but with multi-passports) decide to keep their country hostage in their quest for greener pastures. I would hope JdG2 would decide to play for our country, but should he decide not, well I'm not going to disrespect the ones like David Edgar, Jamie Peters, Issey, Dwayne, Atiba, Diesel, JDV, Friend, and many others who show up without hesitation for Canada. Sorry, but I'm just too tired of those who show up on this "supporters" site and justify an allegiance to another country. "Why f### bother?" Ask Bruce Wilson, Craig Forrest, Mitchell, even David Edgar ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 quote:Originally posted by redhat Sorry, but I'm just too tired of those who show up on this "supporters" site and justify an allegiance to another country. "Why f### bother?" Ask Bruce Wilson, Craig Forrest, Mitchell, even David Edgar ... Whoa, time out. I think you've missed my point entirely. This was a joke, a bit of sarcasm aimed squarely at the CSA, not the players who represent Canada (who I have a great admiration for). That includes guys like Stalteri, who have sacrificed a great deal to represent their country with pride, and with success. It is to Stalteri's great credit that he's never said "why the f### bother", when a lot of people might have, given the CSA's incompetence. I would never "justify an allegiance to another country". Perhaps I'm a bit bitter at how these guys are let down by the incompetence of the CSA leadership, but a lot of others are as well. Mr. Linford talks a good game... but if he does not deliver, and soon, then he may as well have left Pipe in place. I sincerely hope that things turn around. This is a real opportunity, provided the right people are put in place at the CSA, IN A TIMELY MANNER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Dave Whoa, time out. I think you've missed my point entirely. This was a joke, a bit of sarcasm aimed squarely at the CSA, not the players who represent Canada (who I have a great admiration for). Perhaps I'm a bit bitter at how these guys are let down by the incompetence of the CSA leadership ... Sorry this wasn't directed at you, but rather to those that come on this board and s*** at this country. The CSA is not perfect, and I could easily point out their faults, but really, if JdG2 or OH or Marcel de Jong were catered to by the CSA as grandly as some suggested I suspect they would STILL look for options if they could. I would agree that a sense of urgency about getting a coach and its MNT program together is a must if the CSA wants to rectify its current sorry reputation AND future direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 quote:Originally posted by redhat Sorry this wasn't directed at you, but rather to those that come on this board and s*** at this country. The CSA is not perfect, and I could easily point out their faults, but really, if JdG2 or OH or Marcel de Jong were catered to by the CSA as grandly as some suggested I suspect they would STILL look for options if they could. I would agree that a sense of urgency about getting a coach and its MNT program together is a must if the CSA wants to rectify its current sorry reputation AND future direction. Hey no problem, I get a bit ticked when people denigrate everyone involved in Canadian soccer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante79 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer screw him..i'm sick of this guy and his family. its simple canada yes or canada no. lets not beg for this trader. totally agree!! we dont need a guy like that, we want player who will give their entire heart for CANADA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 So looks like it was a rumour after all... Link from Djinnx on another thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRH_a8beF54 Saviola7 translates it to him denying he has chosen Holland (thank goodness!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 So looks like it was a rumour after all... Link from Djinnx on another thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRH_a8beF54 Saviola7 translates it to him denying he has chosen Holland (thank goodness!) I don't understand a single word he's saying but if that's that case...whew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoni Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Pay close attention to the flattered smile on his face when he says "no". This soap opera is a long way from over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Take any public announcement/interview/article with JdG2 with a grain of salt. Everytime there's one these things I'm always reminded of the OH article that quotes him as wanting to play for Canada. (This was when it was between Canada and Wales, way before the England came poaching.) I'm optimistic that he would eventually make the right choice, but until JdG2 joins his brother wearing the red and white I'm not holding my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I was intrigued that De Guzman said in a recent interview that he had yet to apply for a passport in the Netherlands. So I checked to see whether he qualified. It seems from Wikipedia (see link below) that he would qualify as he has lived there for over 5 years, and is over 18, is fluent in Dutch, and likely could pass the naturalisation test. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law One thing that maybe is giving him second thoughts is the possible requirement to renounce his foreign citizenship (ie. Canadian). It seems the dutch are pretty tight on dual citizenship. As he seems to have gone to the netherlands at 12, he maybe eligible to retain on the basis of the exemption "where the person has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of 5 years or longer before age 18.". However, it notes that expat bulletin boards have stated that the "immigration ministry has largely undermined these exceptions, either by imposing barriers so high that no one reaches them, or by using secondary obstacles to prevent would-be applicants from getting Dutch nationality". Considering he is likely to have returned home in the summers to Canada, perhaps it is not an "uninterrupted period of 5 years". I would therefore be curious that if he does apply, whether he would have to give up his Canadian citizenship to qualify. They also seem to be pretty tough in revoking your nationality if you live outside the Netherlands/EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 quote:Originally posted by An Observer One thing that maybe is giving him second thoughts is the possible requirement to renounce his foreign citizenship (ie. Canadian). It seems the dutch are pretty tight on dual citizenship. As he seems to have gone to the netherlands at 12, he maybe eligible to retain on the basis of the exemption "where the person has lived in the Netherlands, the Dutch Antilles or Aruba for an uninterrupted period of 5 years or longer before age 18.". However, it notes that expat bulletin boards have stated that the "immigration ministry has largely undermined these exceptions, either by imposing barriers so high that no one reaches them, or by using secondary obstacles to prevent would-be applicants from getting Dutch nationality". Considering he is likely to have returned home in the summers to Canada, perhaps it is not an "uninterrupted period of 5 years". I would therefore be curious that if he does apply, whether he would have to give up his Canadian citizenship to qualify. They also seem to be pretty tough in revoking your nationality if you live outside the Netherlands/EU. This is the same in Spain but there is a catch: renouncing your Canadian citizenship before any judge who is not Canadian has no legal effect in Canada. You want to stop being a Canadian, you let Canadian legal authorities know officially. I am looking into Spanish citizenship, though have not started paper work even though I qualify, and I was told this by folks working at the embassy in Madrid who had done the same: go through the process, swear the Spanish constitution, renounce your Canadian citizenship before a Spanish judge, and continue with both passports, EU and Canadian, as the renouncement is not recognized in Canada. So much so that you can continue to benefit from all your rights and privileges in Canada, apart from those limited only to residents or residential requirements, while holding the passport of another country. El Mundo Deportivo from Barcelona had a short note on him on the back page today, written by one of the chief editors. Apart from mentioning his goal scoring and his being the bro of Julian, they called him an "internacional canadiense", nice to see in print however untrue it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Germany also requires you to give up your Canadian citizenship to become a citizen and it is not enough to swear before a German judge, you have to show proof from the Canadian government that you have renounced your citizenship. I would expect Holland to be similar. BTW these laws in Europe are basically racist in origin, the real purpose behind them being not to stop dual citizenship but rather to make it as hard/unattractive as possible for immigrants to become citizens of their new country. Maybe in this case it will at least pay off for us if it prevents JDG2 from playing for Holland. However, in my experience there is usually one set of rules for the immigrants cleaning the toilets and another for professional soccer players who could be national team players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Does this apply if you have a German heritage? Because my Brazilian GF is of German decent and apparently does not have that concern. Also, I believe when I investigated a Dutch passport, I would not have to give my Canadian passport, but then, I am of Dutch heritage. Similarly, if I was to apply for Brazilian citizenship, I would have to give up my Canadian passport (which I would not do), but, if she was to apply for Canadian citizenship, the Brazilian gov't would allow dual citizenship. The Brazilian gov't gets around this by offering permanent visa status to a person like me. quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Germany also requires you to give up your Canadian citizenship to become a citizen and it is not enough to swear before a German judge, you have to show proof from the Canadian government that you have renounced your citizenship. I would expect Holland to be similar. BTW these laws in Europe are basically racist in origin, the real purpose behind them being not to stop dual citizenship but rather to make it as hard/unattractive as possible for immigrants to become citizens of their new country. Maybe in this case it will at least pay off for us if it prevents JDG2 from playing for Holland. However, in my experience there is usually one set of rules for the immigrants cleaning the toilets and another for professional soccer players who could be national team players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The rule in Germany is if you have German blood AND were born outside of the country you can have dual citizenship but you cannot hold dual citizenship if you don't have German blood or if you were born in Germany. I have a German friend with a daughter born in Germany and son born in Canada both of whom are Canadian citizens. The son is entitled to German citizenship without giving up his Canadian but the daughter is not, ie. it is harder for the child born in Germany to get citizenship than the one born in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Many of the European countries have this "blood" connection which is of course racist. For some reason, if your grand parents were Germans (or Dutch) you are somehow more German than others, some of which may even have a greater connection to the country. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens with DeGuzman. I might dig around a bit more to see what I can find. I imagine giving up his Canadian passport would not be something that he would likely prefer to consider. Also, while an ordinary citizen may get away with "renouncing" his foreign citizenship and then simply going on as normal. I would question whether DeGuzman would be able to. I am certain someone on this board would more than likely point that out to the Dutch authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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