pokey1 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack So you're happy that DeGuzman may not play for us? Why the hell are you even posting on this forum then? Oh ya, you're a troll. a come on A TROLL I AM NOT. I never once said in this forum i want these players to play elsewhere. Im just stating i think a valid point if you dont not "cap" you cannot "rap" and your rapping before the "cap" No im not happy if he chooses to leave or for that matter any of these players I mentioned , as I think they are very impoortant for others to commit as well and set the stage in the right direction. you tell me a reason other then play for your flag what other advantage is there. and i would like to add one more thing why is it every time we have a player with a dual passport we have problem. but yet no problem with Johnson, Peters, bosiac who i think at this point do not have and offical dual.. or did not have it when they where cap for the mens team a year ago.. I have to get back to my battle for middle earth II i better luck there... that i am a warrior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 With his form this year JDG2 isn't really at the level required for the senior Dutch national team. However, he does seem to have huge potential. JDG2 should really think hard about the decision though. If he were called up this year by the Dutch it would be more about capping a potential player than calling him up because he is ready. If his career and playing level don't develop to the extent that is expected he might be in a situation where he has been capped by Holland but is not getting called and is no longer eligible for Canada. At the moment he is a decent young player in Holland but to be a regular Dutch national team callup he will have to become a star player dominating in the Dutch league and then transfering to a better league and becoming a star at that level as well. I would prefer national pride being the reason for his choice but probably his best strategy from a career point of view would be the one he has followed so far in not playing for anyone until he knows he has the quality to be called up for the Dutch on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 its not over til its over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I wont believe anything one way or the other until I see JDG2's name on a team sheet for a game or until he himself comes out and states his choice. To this day we have'nt heard anything really definitive about which country he chooses. We've heard alot of heresay, but nothing to proove whether he suits up for the Red and White or the Oranje... Correct me if im wrong, but there are not even any quotes from Jono himself in that article. But yes, on the other topic here, I feel that while its not the CSA's doings totally, there is far more they could be doing to entice him here. Lets try and be a bit more optomistic about what we have on our side. We may not have the history of the Dutch etc, but we do have Julian in our corner, the World U20's still up and coming, but most of all we may finally be on the way to getting football going in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cndsoccer Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 screw him..i'm sick of this guy and his family. its simple canada yes or canada no. lets not beg for this trader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly With his form this year JDG2 isn't really at the level required for the senior Dutch national team. However, he does seem to have huge potential. JDG2 should really think hard about the decision though. If he were called up this year by the Dutch it would be more about capping a potential player than calling him up because he is ready. If his career and playing level don't develop to the extent that is expected he might be in a situation where he has been capped by Holland but is not getting called and is no longer eligible for Canada. At the moment he is a decent young player in Holland but to be a regular Dutch national team callup he will have to become a star player dominating in the Dutch league and then transfering to a better league and becoming a star at that level as well. I would prefer national pride being the reason for his choice but probably his best strategy from a career point of view would be the one he has followed so far in not playing for anyone until he knows he has the quality to be called up for the Dutch on a regular basis. You're right. If JDG2 ended up having a career like, say, JDG1 (who, with Deportivo and Hannover on his resume, has done pretty well), he likely wouldn't get more than a few matches with the Oranje who, let us not forget, still have a pretty deep midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer lets not beg for this trader. The latest picture of Jono De Guzman: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jonovision You're right. If JDG2 ended up having a career like, say, JDG1 (who, with Deportivo and Hannover on his resume, has done pretty well), he likely wouldn't get more than a few matches with the Oranje who, let us not forget, still have a pretty deep midfield. thats what i used to think about OH before his decision...a slightly above average midfielder playing in germany would last a year or two at best before he was usurped by one of the hundreds of englishmen playing top level football...two world cups later and he is being courted by one of the world's top teams....we would probably be debating his availability for toronto fc if he had decided the other way. jdg2's decision is a heartbreaker...i really thought his brother's choice would give us the advantage....but in the end, you only get one kick at life and when he is 40 and looks back at a career of euro championships and world cup appearances...adored by millions of fans...i can hardly blame him...especially when the flip side would be a bunch of games on crappy fields in central america never qualifying for anything and even if achieving star status at the top levels of the sport, he would rarely rate a mention in the media....how many canadians know the name radzinski, (one of the best canadian soccer players of all time)?....maybe one in ten thousand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueviking Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 the greatest justice would be if we somehow managed to qualify for south africa and the dutch (who are no sure thing) didnt.....and his brother got the call and he got to watch from the stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjinnX Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Rudi The latest picture of Jono De Guzman: LOL I have not seen that thing in quite some time. That Fur "Traitor" is from the town I grew up in. As for Jono, I for one still have blind optimism and think JDG2 is getting a Dutch passport just to further his club career and will still suit up for his country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by trueviking jdg2's decision is a heartbreaker...i really thought his brother's choice would give us the advantage....but in the end, you only get one kick at life and when he is 40 and looks back at a career of euro championships and world cup appearances...adored by millions of fans...i can hardly blame him...especially when the flip side would be a bunch of games on crappy fields in central america never qualifying for anything and even if achieving star status at the top levels of the sport, he would rarely rate a mention in the media....how many canadians know the name radzinski, (one of the best canadian soccer players of all time)?....maybe one in ten thousand? This is the phrase that really pisses me off. Who believes this? If we had all of our players that would have been eligible to play for us, I believe we could qualify for something. Imagine a midfield with JDG1, JDG2, OH and Atiba. I'm talking about the best midfield in CONCACAF! Sure OH is gone, but if JDG2 played for Canada do you not think we would instantly be that much better? A creative midfielder that could deliver from set pieces is exactly what we are missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by jonovision You're right. If JDG2 ended up having a career like, say, JDG1 (who, with Deportivo and Hannover on his resume, has done pretty well), he likely wouldn't get more than a few matches with the Oranje who, let us not forget, still have a pretty deep midfield. I agree with both posts. If the Dutch do offer him a game now, it would really be about capping potential. Van Basten would probably be happy to offer JDG2 a cap, but there is no guarantees of anything beyond that. With Canada, he would get 50-80 caps easily. He could even get over 100 (I know the current record is around 82) if Canada gets more games and he stays healthy. With the Dutch, there is perhaps a 50/50 chance of 10 caps, and perhaps less than a 50/50 chance of ten starts. Of course, he and his Dad probably thinks that he is an automatic for over 100 caps with the Dutch and he will become a legend. I'm not saying that it can't happen - he does have alot of talent - but that would be extremely tough. It is unfortunate that with guys like JDG2 and De Jong, we sort of have to hope that they stall in their development long enough for the Dutch to lose interest and Canada to remain their only option. I know that De Jong is currently cap-tied to Canada, but has until October to switch. If his play falters over the next few months, and Holland does not pick him for August's U-21 Euro tournamnt, then he is probably ours. Since Jonathan is not cap-tied to either country, his turning 21 in a couple of years means nothing. He can wait as long as he wants to develop. So, we are either going to lose a superstar, or we will get a player who did not live up to his full potential and is only with Canada because the Dutch found him to be a disappointment. Canada needs an offensively-minded central midfielder, but greatness is not made of this. I hope that Toronto FC is quick in launching their academy, and that Vancouver and Montreal join MLS in 2010. While the *possible* loss of De Jong is quite natural, there should not be a need for twelve year olds to move to European countries that they have no family connection to inorder to receive training like JDG2 did. The MLS academies should be enough to keep Canada's top talent in Canada long enough to keep them "feeling Canadian" and in the system. The top players will always leave eventually for Europe, but if they don't leave until they are in their twenties, or even late teens as it requires years of residency in a country for those without any national heritage to obtain citizenship, then Canada will get to keep its' best players. Of course, qualifying for the World Cup would also help Canada's cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 This may sound like a wind-up, but why not put some pressure on him in the media? Do you think that would be more harm than help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by RJB This may sound like a wind-up, but why not put some pressure on him in the media? Do you think that would be more harm than help? There is already plenty of pressure. Since there are probably other, more important considerations, involved in this, I doubt it would help. It could hurt though since nobody likes to be backed into a corner. If he wants time then he should be given time. Besides, he lives in Holland, so ignoring Canadian media would be easy. It would be pressure from the Dutch media that would be difficult to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by KAS There is already plenty of pressure. Since there are probably other, more important considerations, involved in this, I doubt it would help. It could hurt though since nobody likes to be backed into a corner. If he wants time then he should be given time. Besides, he lives in Holland, so ignoring Canadian media would be easy. It would be pressure from the Dutch media that would be difficult to ignore. Since there has been debate on whether Johan Derksen's assertions are credible or not, maybe this is pressure from the Dutch media for him to play for Holland. Johan Derksen seems to be close to the Dutch FA so maybe this is their way of pressuring him to play for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Since there has been debate on whether Johan Derksen's assertions are credible or not, maybe this is pressure from the Dutch media for him to play for Holland. Johan Derksen seems to be close to the Dutch FA so maybe this is their way of pressuring him to play for them. If this is the case I'm hoping for a "backfire"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Since there has been debate on whether Johan Derksen's assertions are credible or not, maybe this is pressure from the Dutch media for him to play for Holland. Johan Derksen seems to be close to the Dutch FA so maybe this is their way of pressuring him to play for them. Johan Derksen is nowhere near the Dutch FA. He owns the biggest Dutch Football Magazine and he has a talkshow based around him.... He always has the latest news and he is reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saviola7 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I was just thinking about this this morning, and in this case if he chooses Holland, I blame both him and the CSA (let's say a 70/30 split). Imagine if our country had no soccer program at all, then you probably wouldn't blame him too much for playing for another country. Right now we still have no COO, TD, or head coach. I agree that one should have a degree of loyalty in these things, but I'm sure the fact the organisation looks like a complete mess doesn't help any. On the other hand he would be playing for Canada, not the CSA ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjoni Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 -Whoever mentioned the article from a couple years ago, Julian said both that he'd love to play with his brother, or against him. -SCF08, what do you mean, Johan Derksen was first to know about Kalou?!? You mean he knew that Kalou's citizenship application would backfire and that he'd end up playing for Ivory Coast anyway?? If that's your point, it bodes well for Canada. -Everybody should just chill out, and don't take your frustration out on Julian or the family. People read this stuff and it doesn't do wonders for the Voyageurs' reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by masster This is the phrase that really pisses me off. Who believes this? If we had all of our players that would have been eligible to play for us, I believe we could qualify for something. Imagine a midfield with JDG1, JDG2, OH and Atiba. I'm talking about the best midfield in CONCACAF! Sure OH is gone, but if JDG2 played for Canada do you not think we would instantly be that much better? A creative midfielder that could deliver from set pieces is exactly what we are missing. You might want to read Dwayne de Rosario's article below. Sounds like he believes it. I believe it. It's ironic that football is starting to get a toehold in the media here in North America but it really is a no-brainer at this point for those players with some semblance of options on the national team front. I know you can drag out Rossi's name for the USA as also opting for a European country, but the problem is definitely of grave concern to Canada and our men's team. I would agree with a previous post by AJ that Jonathan and the the whole de Guzman family have lots of reasons to look for options thanks largely to the beaurocrats running the game here in Canada (should that have said 'ruining'?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by SCF08Johan Derksen is nowhere near the Dutch FA. He owns the biggest Dutch Football Magazine and he has a talkshow based around him.... He always has the latest news and he is reliable. You mean to tell me this guy owns the largest Dutch football magazine and is nowhere near the Dutch FA?[:0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villus Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hey CSA get a fkn coach already and put a plan in place to get the ball rolling, we have the most young talented players in the history of CDN soccer and if the CSA does'nt start to feel the pressure the program willl probably continue to be a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Ed You might want to read Dwayne de Rosario's article below. Sounds like he believes it. I believe it. It's ironic that football is starting to get a toehold in the media here in North America but it really is a no-brainer at this point for those players with some semblance of options on the national team front. I know you can drag out Rossi's name for the USA as also opting for a European country, but the problem is definitely of grave concern to Canada and our men's team. I would agree with a previous post by AJ that Jonathan and the the whole de Guzman family have lots of reasons to look for options thanks largely to the beaurocrats running the game here in Canada (should that have said 'ruining'?). I did read the article with Dero. I think he agrees with me. He believes like I do that the talent is there to "qualify for something". They just need to be supported properly for that to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Blame the CSA? Blame De Guzman's father? Blame JDG2??? I say blame Canada for making it increasingly difficult to be a proud Canadian, instead telling immigrants and family members of immigrants to embrace their own culture. The more I think about it, the more I like America's 'our way or get out' attitude. It's funny how poaching is unethical on so many levels unless it's in professional sports. I for one hope that he gets rejected for a passport and Canada turns his back on him... Assuming this article is true. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex M Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 ... And by Canada, I mean the CSA. I don't think a country should turn it's back on any of it's citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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