Shogun CWKS Legia Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I am curious what is the yearly "operating" budget of Canadian USL Teams? How much does the Whitecaps spend a year running the team(Men's only + reserves)? 2-3millions CAD$$ What about Montreal Impact? For example this year the Fall Champion in the polish league is GKS Be³chatów with a budget of 8million Zloty(about 3,146,507.38 CAD) while last year champion Legia Warszawa 30,000,000.00 PLN ---> 11,799,402.69 CAD Which is the most in the polish league(dwarf size budget when compared with Serie A clubs for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 That's a good question. Lenarduzzi and the Whitecaps have a "no public disclosure" rule with the media and public. I can't see the budget even being that big as the Polish clubs. Beautiful country, by the way. I went there as a side trip while i was at the world cup in Germany. I know most players have 2nd jobs. I can't see the highest payed player making more than $50k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I estimate the Whitecaps operating cost for the two men's teams is in the region of $1.5 million. Certainly nowhere near $10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun CWKS Legia Posted February 4, 2007 Author Share Posted February 4, 2007 Well I guess the great barrier that separates WhitecapsFC from Polish clubs is the same as ManU vs. Legia Warszawa ratio...what about Montreal Impact what their budget? ANY team in the USL has disclosed their budget? U said most players have second job what is the "cap" on salary in the USL? what about the MLS? Since TorontoFC joined in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 Good way to look at it, compare ratios. Another way is to compare what the other clubs in the same league have to spend. If you are way below you simply may have problems to compete, unless there is a shortage of pro and semi pro teams in a region with a strong player pool, meaning you can get good semi-pro quality cheaper (supposedly California would be the case). I forget how much we heard the Impact had to spend (was it actually two or three million?). Richard's estimate for Caps sounds about right. An example from Spain: the lowest budget is 15 million Euros, Tarragona, now in last place. The president came out saying that with a budget like that it was very difficult to stay in top flight. Of course there is always luck and persistence: Recreativo Huelva, which must have the 2nd or third lowest budget, is now 7th in the league, but such things happen against the run of logic. As Barça club member I get full financial reports, it is quite interesting to see the revenue and expenditure breakdowns for a top club (now with projected second highest yearly income of all pro soccer clubs, close to 300 million, surpassing Man Utd this year and still behind Real Madrid) and compare the same breakdowns with a lowlier club. But not all top clubs are the same, as the key factors are which league you are in, what tier you are in for tv revenue and sponsors, and attendance/season tickets. Some have lower revenue in ticket sales, others do better with sponsors, others with tv, others with merchandising. Of course tv is weak for USL, merchandising too, sponsors may represent a decent % considering overall budget, and ticket sales are much more important. I wonder if most teams are deficit ventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanDouglas Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 As far as I know, the only USL club to disclose their financials was the San Diego Flash who went public and therefore had to file financial reports with the SEC. These I believe can still be found in online databases, but it's been a few years since I last looked for them. They made for sobering reading. The team raised several million dollars by going public and poured most of it into advertising and marketing - something like $1.5 million over two years. But after all that, they were only pulling in around $50,000 in total ticket sales for the year. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulsar Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Shogun CWKS Legia Well I guess the great barrier that separates WhitecapsFC from Polish clubs is the same as ManU vs. Legia Warszawa ratio...what about Montreal Impact what their budget? ANY team in the USL has disclosed their budget? U said most players have second job what is the "cap" on salary in the USL? what about the MLS? Since TorontoFC joined in.... Most MLS entry level players (starters ) earn anywhere from 40K -60K. Top players like DeRo and Landon Donavon make more than 120K a year. Both those guys just signed huge contrcts worth to be around 400K per year. This may not be true so anyone out there, feel free to correct me. MLS teams have a salary cap. This year they passed a law stating that each team is allowed to have a marquee player paid over and abouve the salary cap. Beckham is the perfect example. This will create some animosity between the players but i think it will be best for the MLS in the long run. I woud suspect that the budget for Montreal would be lrger than Vancouver because they draw an avg. attendance of 11,000 to our 5500. i would think their players would make more then my Whitecaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by pulsar Most MLS entry level players (starters ) earn anywhere from 40K -60K. Top players like DeRo and Landon Donavon make more than 120K a year. Both those guys just signed huge contrcts worth to be around 400K per year. This may not be true so anyone out there, feel free to correct me. MLS teams have a salary cap. This year they passed a law stating that each team is allowed to have a marquee player paid over and abouve the salary cap. Beckham is the perfect example. This will create some animosity between the players but i think it will be best for the MLS in the long run. I woud suspect that the budget for Montreal would be lrger than Vancouver because they draw an avg. attendance of 11,000 to our 5500. i would think their players would make more then my Whitecaps. Landon Donovan made $900K (USD) last year, and Chivas USA had a player making over $1M. The salary cap this year in MLS is $2.1M, but only the first $400K of the big contracts is applied to the cap as that is all that MLS pays the players under the collective entity system - the individual team owners pay anything over $400K. Because of this, the actual wage bill for the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA was each over $3M last year. The Montreal Impact is definitly the big dog in USL. I imagine a total operating budget of $2M (perhaps $600K-1M on wages?). They are helped by having the Quebec Gov't as a sponsor, and the numerous advantages of non-profit status. All of which makes me suspicious as to whether Saputo really want MLS, or if he is happy enough with his current set-up. Vancouver and/or Rochester would be next - maybe $1-1.5M? These are just my guesses, so don't take them too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 In 2000, when KPMG produced a feasibility study for the CSA on the subject of a domestic pro league the average team operating budget was set at $700,000 based on numbers from the USL A-League at the time. This is what I used as a guide for estimating a $1.5 million operating budget for the Whitecaps men in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun CWKS Legia Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote: So let me get this straight MLS "Salary CAP" is about $2.1m....but only the first $400K applies to the cap? Kinda of lost here That is correct. Since MLS will only pay a maximum of $400K for one player's salary under their single-entity structure, that is all that is applied to the cap. Anything over $400K is paid by the team's owner out of pocket. Since MLS is not paying that, it is not included in the cap. quote: Let's assume(making an a... of out myself right now:D) I got lots of money and I just wanna blow my PetroMoscow$$$ I could sign let's say 4players at $1m each but only $1.6m would be "deducted" from my limit of $2.1m...thus leaving me with a meager $500K to pay for the rest of the players? Is that the way it works? It was - sort of. There were some teams that had 2-3 large contracts, but it will be harder to do that now. In the fall, MLS passed a "Designated Player Rule" that is widely refered to as the "Beckham Rule". This allows each team to have one "Designated Player" whose salary exceeds $400K. Since there currently are 13 teams, there are only 13 DP slots. Teams can trade their slots (Chivas USA traded theirs to New York), but a team can't have more than two (only NY has two right now). Players who were already making over $400K, like Donovan and Adu, have been "Grandfathered" for this year, but not next year. That mean the LA Galaxy will have to trade to aquire another team's 2008 DP slot if it wants to keep Donovan next year as Beckham is alreay using LA's DP slot and will be for the next five years. quote:What if I pick good EU based players pay them on paper $100k each and another $900K each in endorsments? Like record a TV ad for Umbro...but that I will defacto finance? I has been done in Poland's second league...In fact those kind of deals still fly. Get good players pay them on paper next to nothing yet the endorsment ad for selling vaccums is worht $600K to the player Every year....[8D] Well, Beckham's package deal does have alot of stuff on the side. The important thing to remember is that all of the MLS clubs have to approve any deal that involves using a DP slot, and I'm sure there are other guidelines to prevent underhanded deals. You should also know that teams have "allocation" money. This is generally meant for paying tranfer fees to aquire players, but it can also be used to allow a team to go over the cap (ex. you can use $300K of allocation money to effectively give you a $2.4M salary cap), or to pay a player a "signing bonus" that would not count towards the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by KAS Landon Donovan made $900K (USD) last year, and Chivas USA had a player making over $1M. The salary cap this year in MLS is $2.1M, but only the first $400K of the big contracts is applied to the cap as that is all that MLS pays the players under the collective entity system - the individual team owners pay anything over $400K. Because of this, the actual wage bill for the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA was each over $3M last year. The Montreal Impact is definitly the big dog in USL. I imagine a total operating budget of $2M (perhaps $600K-1M on wages?). They are helped by having the Quebec Gov't as a sponsor, and the numerous advantages of non-profit status. All of which makes me suspicious as to whether Saputo really want MLS, or if he is happy enough with his current set-up. Vancouver and/or Rochester would be next - maybe $1-1.5M? These are just my guesses, so don't take them too seriously. I am dead sure that the new team in San Francisco, owned by Dmitri Piterman, is going to have a budget to rival all that. I am curious about where he is going to draw the players from, how the team will be built. But in any case, given his deep pockets and ambition (and mental instability, and offensive behaviour based on being rich thus smarter than the rest of all mortals), California will have a hefty budget, one to rival Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bxl Boy Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 According to Tim Holt, quoted in the last Quebec Soccer, all USL1 teams have 7 figures budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 quote:Originally posted by Bxl Boy According to Tim Holt, quoted in the last Quebec Soccer, all USL1 teams have 7 figures budget Now that the Lynx are no longer in the league that is probably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun CWKS Legia Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 How do USL2 budgets compare to USL1? I am just asking since I read here that "apparently" the USL want to introduce relegation once USL1 gets 16teams on board....I just don't want the gap to be to wide.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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