North American SuperLiga Created

[VPjr]

there sure are a lot of negative people on this forum who are prepared to dismiss just about anything before it happens. You might think you are realistic but it's simply being small minded. You have no idea whether this tournament will be a success or failure yet you will pick it apart just for kicks...

It's not your money or time being invested in it. You get to just sit back and enjoy it (if you choose to). If, after Year 1, it fails to live up to your lofty expectations, then tear it apart. Until then, how can any of you dismiss it with such confidence (and please don't tell me "because i've seen it all before" because that's bunk).

As for future years, the event is tabbed to be a 16 team event (8 MLS, 8 Mexican) which will ensure that most/all of the "desired" MLS teams get in while still allowing the supposed "unwanted" teams to qualify if they finish high enough on the table or make the playoffs.

[Gordon]

I think people are dismissing the pretensions of this tournament...specificlly "today announced the creation of SuperLiga™, the preeminent club</u> tournament in North America that will not only decide the best in the region but will also award the heftiest winner's purse in North American soccer history."

North America includes Central America and the Carribean and there are clubs in that region that are "better" than any of the MLS clubs that will participate and they are being excluded. This is exactly the sort of mickey mouse BS that keeps CONCACAF looking like a joke.

Now if MLS and MFL want to get together to generate some revenue and hold a little tournement somewhwere where ex-pats mexicans will show up to support their old country teams then that is one thing, but to label it as something more is offfensive. And that stands whether TFC is involved or not. So in that sense, scandal seems an appropriate description when it has pretenses of being a "Champions League" and publishes the same.

[VPjr]

Gordon, North America is part of CONCACAF but Central America and Caribbean is NOT</u> a part of North America.

That's why this tournament will crown the best team in NORTH AMERICA (which comprises only Canada, USA and Mexico).

You don't have to like the concept (which is still completely baffling to me...just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining) but at least get your facts straight.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Gordon, North America is part of CONCACAF but Central America and Caribbean is NOT</u> a part of North America.

...but at least get your facts straight.

Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America

[Loud Mouth Soup]

You really could put the whole North America/Central America thing up for debate.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

Wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America

From a "Concacaf" perspective, he is not wrong (and given that the claim is that from this perspective it looks like a joke, it is perhaps the most relevant perspective). The initials stand for the Confederation of North, Central American & Caribbean Football" - the region distinguishes the three.

[VPjr]

I may be wrong and I'm willing to eat crow.

However, most people will not dispute that politically, North America has become defined Canada, US and Mexico and solidified this with NAFTA. Mexico is undeniably linked with Central America but, in practical terms, countries like Hondusras, Nicaragua, etc.. are not part of North America.

No need to debate this further. From pure geography, I'm wrong but that doesn't make this tournament a joke, it will make one team $1 million dollars wealthier and will boost the profile of the MLS, especially among Mexican/Latino fans in the US. If you notice the press release, right now all TV rights in the US are held by a spanish language network. As far as I am concerned, whatever it takes to improve the casual fan's perception of the league, the better. The purist might not like it but they aren't trying to make the purists happy. It's nice if the purist is happy but not critical to the success of this venture. They assume that you'll watch because you love the game.

[RS]

A few points, from reading up on this tournament at BigSoccer over the past few months:

- The first year is for invitees only. In 2008 the teams will have to qualify, and they may expand the competition.

- This will eventually replace the CONCACAF Champions Cup as the regional club tournament, IMO. I'd rather have MLS/SUM & FMF running the regional championships than CONCACAF.

- Next year, the tournament will be held entirely in Mexico. After that, it'll "likely" go to a proper format.

[Gordon]

The point here is simply that it is self serving for the equivalent of the Royal League (i.e. Scandinavia only) to try to create an illusion of being something more than it is.

It is dishonest to hide behind semantics that most people will not understand and it is basically an attempt by MLS to buy a level of respect and recognition that it can not earn on the field. It serves to undermine the confederation as a whole to the benefit of a couple of players. I recognize that is the way the entire confederation is run (Gold Cup the most blatant example) and it results in things like Canada getting cheated not once, but twice, in its national stadium and the Confederation technical committe then "praising" the referee for his courage, but that still does make it right. Garber and this tourney should be mocked at every turn IMO and not given any of the credibility they crave.

As I said, if MLS and MLF simply came together to have a tournament and did not try to put on airs, you'd not hear a whit from me, or anyone else I'd suspect.

[VPjr]

Ok, let's suppose that you are right. Then, to make you happy, the press release should have read something like this:

"MLS and MLF announce that 8 of our teams will be participating in a new tournament format, The Superliga, whose sole purpose is to showcase David Beckham and to sell more Addidas jerseys".

C'mon guys...lighten up. You guys take this stuff way too seriously. The MLS is trying to sell itself. MLS (and MLF for that matter) have only one responsibility and that is to sell their leagues and players. As long as they don't bar their teams from playing in the CONCACAF club championship (or whatever it's called), how can they be undermining the confederation. Furthermore, in marketing, who isn't self serving? Sometimes you have to put on airs in order to create a desirable image. You might not like the message but you can't please everyone. I applaud the league for trying to put a product on the field that should be very entertaining. The MLS plays so few games annually compared to the typical top teams in Europe that any extra games should be welcomed.

[JamesW]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

There is nothing wrong with the CONCACAF Champions League. MLS needs to get themselves behind that tournament. Why no expand it, and put some of that sponsorship money into it, and then all of a sudden, there is a meaningful, FIFA sanctioned competition that has gotten much better.

I do wish that MLS got "themselves behind that tournament". But for the last ten years, they have not. What has changed that will make Mexican teams and MLS teams care about it? Nothing. But now, at least, they are caring about some kind of competition. Let us all hope that they grow this and let other teams in from outside Mexico and the US. Then maybe this will become the "FIFA sanctioned competition"?

[MM2]

Garber announced a number years ago that one of the leagues goals was to get their teams more involved in international competitions.

What has CONCACAF done in the meantime. Reduced the Champions Cup from 16 to 8 teams(4 MLS teams used to compete) and moved the start of the tournament to the MLS pre-season. Shortly after MLS and the Mexican league announced this tournament, CONCACAF issued a statement that they plan to expand the Champions Cup to 16 teams in 2009.

MLS has no power over CONCACAF, hopefully this move will spur CONCACAF to take action.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

The key is there is absolutely no way FIFA can recognize this tournament, at least as anything but a private affair.

It represents nothing: since the Concacaf championship has regularly been won by clubs that are not MLS or Mexican, what do you say to the Saprissa's of the world? Or better, what have the Costariqueño clubs to say about this: you can't beat us on the field so you eliminate us from the competition?

As mentioned above, it is like a Royal League, meaning an opportunity to dick around a bit and pretend. Little more. I hope Concacaf calls them on it, as in my eyes it is renegade and should not go ahead with current pretensions.

[VPjr]

there is absolutely no mention from any official press releases about FIFA recognizing Superliga as an official regional championship. The promoters are making a marketing claim that it will crown the best team in North America and they have every right to do so because it's their tournament and they can do whatever it takes to sell tickets, sponsorships, apparel, etc.... Just because they make claims doesn't make them true. If you believe that the CONCACAF club championships crowns the best team in North America, then that's your right. However, we all know that the CONCACAF tournament has serious flaws too, although boosting the number of teams to 16 is a move in the right direction (its interesting that they issue the statement around the time that the Superliga is introduced...competition is good). Changing the timing of the start of the event so that the early rounds of the tournament take place when MLS teams are operating at a higher level rather than during pre-season would be another good move.

Superliga is a private tournament and the people promoting it can say whatever they want to say in order to promote it and CONCACAF won't do squat about it because they have nothing to gain from starting a turf war and upsetting MLS and MLF, the two most high profile leagues in the confederation. They are going to let MLS and MLF have their event and then welcome MLS and MLF teams to the CONCACAF event with open arms.

If the Central American and Caribbean leagues don't like it...tough for them. If their teams had legitimate market value to a broad US/Canadian/Mexican audience, they would be invited. Again, this is a marketing tool. The MLS and MLF people want to Promote themselves. I say good for them.

[Richard]

I think the $1 million prize money will provide plenty of motivation. This is all about raising the profile of the MLS in the USA just like the purchase of Beckham, and most Americans have probably never heard of the CONCACAF Champions Cup or could care less about it.

[KAS]

I don't really have a problem with this. It is all about marketing and the pursuit of more money - and there is nothing wrong with that. More money for MLS = higher salary cap = better talent.

As far as sporting competition goes, however, this is really lame. It is no better than the Whitecaps summer tournament, it just has more publicity behind it. Besides the "invited MLS clubs" part, any tournament which does not include Saprissa, and does not give a chance to the champion clubs of T&T, Jamaica, and Honduras, lacks legitimacy.

I guess it would be nice if TFC can get in this (just for the money), but I would still want to see the club represent Canada in the real tournament that determines the true king of CONCACAF. Beat the real top clubs in this region, then go to Japan and give it your best shot against the CL king. That is what real competition is all about.

TFC should ask the CSA to be Canada's representative in the CONCACAF tournament (the Impact and Whitecaps can't seem to do it due to the schedule), and go through the garbage early round games against crap Caribean teams. A good run should ensure that future Canadian teams will get to start at a later round - it's only the first year that will be a real bitch.

In the meantime, since TFC is not in SuperLiga, and MLSE is promising season ticket holders up to 5 non-MLS games, TFC should bring in Saprissa for a game. They are a very legit opponent (they often are the best club in CONCACAF), and they would give the MNT players on the club some useful experience as Saprissa is loaded with CONCACAF internationals.

[VPjr]

KAS, great idea about TFC hosting some top CONCACAF teams for friendlies. I know that it is part of TFC's plan to bring some recognizable teams in for friendlies. However, my guess is that they will bring in teams that might have some following in the city in order to generate extra interest in the ethnic communities to come down to BMO to check out the team and the stadium.

It would be nice if CSA could work out an agreement to get a Canadian entry into the CONCACAF club tournament. The fact that we don't have an entry is a bit of a joke in my view. If Canada is a member of the confederation but has no mechanism to qualify a team, what legitimacy does that tournament have. Obviously there is not a lot of top quality Canadian pro clubs to choose from (only 3 real pro clubs) but if there is no means for them to qualify, then that tournament is a bit bush league as well. However, since it is FIFA recognized, you can't argue that it is the top tournament in the region and my hope is that one day, a Canadian club (preferably TFC since that's who I cheer for) plays in it. It would be cool to see our boys in Japan, although that tournament would take place deep in the MLS off-season.

As for your concerns about the legitimacy of Superliga, again, I will contend that the only thing the organizers care about is promoting their leagues, their teams and their players. What value is it to MLS and MLF in promoting teams from the Caribbean or Central America when most North Americans have no idea who those teams are. hell, if I weren't on these forums, I would have never heard of some of the teams mentioned.

[Richard]

"any tournament which does not include Saprissa, and does not give a chance to the champion clubs of T&T, Jamaica, and Honduras, lacks legitimacy."

MLS bills this as a North American tournamnet... not sure how these Caribbean countries fit into that category.

[Alex]

In an ideal world every CONCACAF country would be represented but that wouldnt make money.

[Alex]

Some people need to get their facts straight. There are seven (7) count em, seven continents, North America, South America, Asia, Europe, Oceania, Antarctica and Africa. The Caribbean and central america are part of North America because Central America and the Caribbean are not named as a separate continent in any atlas or text, any fool knows that. This tourny is just about MONEY get used to it! They will not make more money by adding in winners from Jamaica, Costa Rica, T&T etc since that is the CONCACAF champions cup.

[Richard]

Some people need to understand a bit more about marketing. MLS could care less about how many continents there are or that Caribbean countries do not formally occupy their own independent continent. Of course this tournament is all about money and raising the profile of soccer in the USA which is a good thing, isn't that what's been said here repeatedly already?

[MM2]

We aren't talking world geography here, were are talking about CONCACAF (Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football) so for CONCACAF purposes North America is made up of Canada, USA and Mexico. So to call the Superliga an unofficial North American 1st division club championship is not a stretch. To consider it anything more is.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by MM2

We aren't talking world geography here, were are talking about CONCACAF (Confederation of North, Central American and Caribbean Association Football) so for CONCACAF purposes North America is made up of Canada, USA and Mexico. So to call the Superliga an unofficial North American 1st division club championship is not a stretch. To consider it anything more is.

I don't believe the MLS has sugegsted it is anything else other than an 'unofficial' tournament.

[KAS]

This argument is interesting because it appears that we are all agreeing with each other really.

- This is about marketing and making money for MLS and Mexican clubs.

- This is not a true CONCACAF championship.

- They may be implying regional domination, but they are using a much stricter geographic definition than CONCACAF to do so.

Everyone agree on the above?

I think this tournament will benefit from the move away from "inviting" MLS teams to something that is more merit-based. As for geography, it is all a part of North America, but I understand what they are trying to do.

This is just an American MLS vs Mexico tournament, but both sides would like to believe that their leagues are the best in the region, so they will claim that this tournament is actually determining something. It helps sell tickets.

The proof of this is that there are no Canadian teams. TFC may have begged off(?), but the Impact and Whitecaps might have been interested. I know USL1 is generally inferior, but I think we can all agree that these are not two ordinary USL1 clubs, and that they would have atleast a sporting chance. Even Bermuda now has a USL2 club (heh, upsets do happen), and Bermuda is definitely in North America.

The fact that MLS "invited" the two Texas-based teams and LA Galaxy (did conflict concerns exclude Chivas USA for DC United?), instead of RSL, KC, Columbus, ect, to face the Mexican teams prove that this is simply about making as much money as possible. It probably is not worth this much discussion and should not be taken too seriously.

In the meantime, I would still see some value for a TFC vs Saprissa match. If TFC dominates MLS this year, then this might be the true CONCACAF championship matchup.

[VPjr]

just when you thought this thread was dead and buried, here is some interesting news that confirms the speculation when Superliga was first announced that, for 2008, the number of teams that will take part will grow to 8 MLS teams and 8 Mexican 1st division teams. Plus, it will be based on merit, not invitation. I guess this means our boys will have a chance to compete if they can make the playoffs.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/soccer/mls/kansas_city_wizards/16989726.htm