New MNT Coach Question

[Kevin in NS]

Is there any value to our 'search' in all knowing who has applied?

Would that encourage or discourage other applicants?

My nominated guy says go ahead and release my name to encourage awareness...not sure if he means personal or Canadian team awareness..

Thoughts svp

[bettermirror]

I'm not aware of any other men's program listing the names of applicants. They do disclose when specific people are approached quite often - ie, Alan Curbishley for West Ham.

If they have a list of interviewee's then no disclosing it could bring financial stress, thanks to lawyers and agents!

[Mr.Impact]

My bet is on former USA MNT Caoches, Bruce Arena, or Steve Sampson!

[Juby]

I think we should keep the euro focus and hire either a european or south american coach. I was previously thinking that there should be an internal focus but I wanna question that right now.

Honestly, Mexico, USA and Costa Rica are basically devoted to their home programs. although we all know of great mexican players (borghetti and marquez), mexican league players usually leave mexico around 27 to cash after their development, Costa Rica's team is basically deportivo saprissa and the US tries to export players but they rely on being a 300 million people country more then choosing a path.

Canada on the other hand has been focusing on the euro leagues (not so much by our own choice, just the reality of our situation) and in the last 5 years we begun to develope an unprecedented amount of talent amoung our new kids. Have we ever had kid dominating the dutch league while at the same time having a kid playing regularly in England championship league while at the same time having a kid who at 16 cracked MLS and is in Hertha Berlins Youth squad, while at the same time having a kid move through newcastle youth to reserves to the bench (albeit injury aided).

Honestly for the first time in a long time we are really doing something right, and considering I didn't even mention johnson, lombardo, jackson, begovic etc. I want to know from some of the older people here if Canada has ever had this much potential ever. I say do whatever we can to help football internally but the focus should remain on getting into europe.

The worry is that we'll lost players I think but that will happen to any middle of packish team with a serious star, and were 10 years ago we had hargreaves leave and radz, diesel and mckenna, now we have those good players on the team to help strong players, plus players with greater potential (then even hargreaves) and like three times the players pool in general. The better we get, the more players will keep so we outta just give it everything and spit on the traitors.

It's hard to measure progress when your dealing with kids (they have a tendency to fizzle abit or just wash out) but I don't think anybody (considering the economic restraints on our MNT) could have done much better in our situation then we did.

this is gunna make alot people disagree but I credit yallop

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

this is gunna make alot people disagree but I credit yallop

Good prediction that a lot of people will disagree. I would think even most Yallop supporters would disagree with that comment. Please explain how can someone who was the head coach for a mere two years and was neither technical director nor in charge of the youth programs can be responsible for the improved development of youth players? Most of the players you mention had much of their basic skills developed before Yallop even took over the program and in the youth programs of various professional teams not the CSA often in foreign countries. Do you have any clue at all about what goes in to developing young players and how long it takes to see results from improved training programs? It is quite debateable how much credit the CSA itself can take for the improvement in Canadian talent let alone any individual employee of the CSA. One can have differing opinions about Yallop's merits as an international head coach but what is it about him that causes people to credit him with things he obviously had little effect on. Why not credit him with getting the U-20 tournament in Canada or building the Toronto stadium while you are at it?

[Juby]

he got peters into ipswich, he gave KOA a platform to show himself, I'm not saying he "coached" them or could even get credit for their skill but I don't think any coach besides yallop has tried to be a hype man ( like puff daddy and Dame Dash styles), I think he better then anyone socially greased the wheels to get alot of our players where they could develope.

[Grizzly]

Getting players into various professional teams is part of the job of any national team coach of a lesser soccer nation. Yet most of these players are to some extent fairly well developed before this happens because otherwise teams would not be interested in them no matter who was promoting them. Ossieck helped a number of players get contracts with professional clubs so this is not something that originated or improved with Yallop (how long have you been following the MNT anyway to make a claim that Yallop was the first to promote players). It is one thing to give Yallop some credit for helping a couple of individual players and another to credit him as the reason we have had a significant increase in the amount of youth talent we are producing like you did in your post. If Yallop helped anyone it was Serioux and Simpson. Whether Peters' move to Ipswich was the correct move or not is not fully decided at the moment but currently the indicators seem to be that it was not the best move he could have made. KOA has never played for the men's team and was given an opportunity and exposure by Mitchell who played him with the U-20s. Ossieck and Mitchell have both had a far greater impact on our youth developement in that both were with the program far longer and Ossieck put forward a youth development blueprint and Mitchell has been directly involved in the youth program. How much credit they deserve for the improvement is also debateable but they have certainly had far more impact than Yallop.

[Juby]

I was refferring to how he gave KOA a chance at galaxy right after, he wasn't coach but it still a great thing to do. And honestly I doubt ossieck even knew half the kids we have now were worth anything. The main reason I attribute him with the success is that although the WCQ didn't work out, we have like 3 times the potential team now as we did in the belize games. You could always credit ossieck and I of course could be very wrong (considering neither of us are in the CSA) but under yallop more quality players got on the map, like became a name with program, then any other time. I honestly think our talent pool for say 2014 will be doubled or tripled by the last couple years group of kids alone, and I don't think the team has grown and developed at this rate ever. And I'll admit the dates mean both yallop and ossieck could be credited but this rather large generation of mid to late 80's players mostly began their pro careers in yallops reign.

Also, about peters, I would say that if you looked at him during the WCQ and then after his ipswich time, even though he isn't a starter, he's developing to be even better a player then anyone could have predicted.

[Grizzly]

I am sure Ossieck was aware of the talent in the youth system considering that as technical director he was in charge of this very youth system. In fact well before Yallop was even hired, most of the people on this board were aware and very excited about the amount of talent in our youth system. You seem to be completely unaware of what was going on in our youth system at the time and for whatever reason love Yallop and are giving him credit he does not deserve (note I am not saying he was inadequate in terms of youth development because it was not his job). Look at the rosters of our U-17 and U-20 teams before 2004 when Yallop was hired and most of the young talented guys we are talking about were already in the system (and both before and after this being coached by Hart/Mitchell and their club team coaches not Yallop). Canada went to the quarter final of the World Youth Cup in 2003, ie. before Yallop, and you are crediting him with developing our talent [:0]. Ossieck never got to work with this talent when it matured and always had a poor talent pool to select from when he was coach. Yallop walked into a good situation in being hired at a time at which this talent was emerging and still failed. The next coach will be in a better position still as more of this pool develops. I suspect much of this talent development has to do with factors such as more kids playing soccer, more European teams scouting Canadian youth and some improvement in coaching/organization at the CSA level. If any coach is going to be given credit it should be those who actually worked with the youth players, ie. Mitchell and Hart.

As far as KOA goes, I am sure Yallop follows the MNT still and saw the Brazil series and was impressed by this kid's talent. Like any coach I am sure he was interested in signing him cheaply as a youth and having such a talented young player in his system but had problems in doing this with the MLS system. Getting on the field for a MLS friendly was probably a good experience for KOA but is far from a major influence on developing his talent or his signing with Hetha Berlin (where he is incidentally in a far better environment than he would be with LA). There is no way that Yallop is a major influence on KOA after having him on trial for a couple of weeks.

[Juby]

yo guy, I'm 20, your trying to hurt my credibility or something, that's pretty lame, the only coaches I can give an opinion on are ossieck and yallop considering I've only been paying attention for like 4 or 5 years. lol, stop trying to shame me out of disagreeing with you, it's demeaning and pathetic on your part. did I even mention a single member of our 2003 U-20 team? I think this team(2007), and as good as that team(2003) was it's now much stronger especially in depth. Of course the youth coaches deserve credit but this is about THE MNT coach, you can't say ossieck is better then yallop cause mitchell so great it doesnt make much sense.

But anyway, my earlier statment was "became a name with the program" this doesn't mean everyone in the program, this means when they made their stamp and with the more senior kids like peters it was yallop who gave him his chance with the MNT. 4 years ago we had maybe 1 major prospect in the minds of the international community, now we have 5 of the most talented youngsters in the world. As proud as I am of 2003, I don't think it is as good as our team now.

about KOA, I honestly don't think yallop though for a second he was gonna keep him, it seemed to me it was more a publicity thing for KOA. And I've never called yallop and influence or even give him development credit, all I said was that he was a great "hype man" and if you start trying to discredit my comments again by disputing something I never actually said I just won't respond.

I would say Ossieck failed by not being able to bring out the talent that was as you said around at the time when he needed it. I would say ossieck failed the talent rather then the talent failed him because yallop still really didn't reap the benefits of the kids over two years but a hell of lot more of them are in great positions(in europe)to develop now then they were two years ago.

And at the end of the day I don't think it's just a coincedence that more youths began to blossom while yallop was in charge, even if you could give ossieck some credit theirs no way you can just say I'm wrong outright, you need to simmer down and accept that two people can both have decent opinions. you'll live longer if you don't get so riled up.

[Grizzly]

First of all the internet is quite democratic and if you post comments they will be criticized regardless of your age which is apparent to noone. If you are only 20 and have only been following the team for a few years fine but then why post as if you are an expert who has followed the team for a long time. If you want to be treated different than everyone else here because of your age then start every post with "I am only 20 and haven't been following the team very long." Now that that is out of the way:

quote:Of course the youth coaches deserve credit but this is about THE MNT coach, you can't say ossieck is better then yallop cause mitchell so great it doesnt make much sense.

Where did I state that Ossieck is better than Yallop because in your words "mitchell so great"? It is pretty clear in my previous posts that I am stating Ossieck influenced the youth program more than Yallop because unlike Yallop he was actually in charge of the youth program as technical director and was involved in the CSA for a much longer period of time and improvements in the youth system are things that take a long time.

You have stated that you give credit for the current strength of the youth program to Frank Yallop. Credit should go to those due the credit and while Yallop may have had some influence like any head coach will he is far from responsible for this. In fact, as much as I am no fan of Yallop I doubt he himself would take anything near the amount of credit for this that you are giving him. For one thing, it wasn't even his job to develop the youth program as he was never a youth coach with the CSA and was never technical director. As our international results show the youth program was quite strong when he took over the job. Ossieck didn't play a lot of the youth talent because at the time he was coach it was indeed youth talent, under 20 and in many cases under 18. These guys mostly started coming of age about the time Yallop took over. Those that Ossieck did have and play like DeGuzman, Hume and Hutchinson were just beginning their professional careers and were not the experienced players they are now. There are a variety of reasons for the improvement in our youth programs and I think most of them have very little to do with the CSA or national team coaching but those factors that do have to do should be credited to those who did them, ie. youth coaches and technical directors.

If you are a Yallop supporter than give him credit for what he did accomplish, beating Austria for example. Helping out Serioux, Simpson and Peters is credible, causing a massive increase in the amount of youth talent we have is not credible especially when he only had the post for two years and most of the players in question never played under him. I am finished posting on the topic and you can believe what you want but I think it is a ridiculous opinion based on ignorance of the history of our youth system and how youth talent is developed.

[Juby]

1. ??? I've been watching for 5 years, I basically am as much an expert on ossieck and yallop as anybody. My comment was on you detracting from real commentary by questioning my credibility, your the one who kept questioning how much I watch the team, and all I said was don't dismiss my statments on the last 5 years cause I wasn't watching in 1986, lol. just cause I never saw Randy Samuel play doesn't mean you can question my ability to judge good soccer and understand the bloody system of soccer.

2. my question was why do you keep talking about mitchell when were comparing ossieck and yallop, don't be difficult.

3. You could have at least apologized though for one thing, as I showed earlier, sometimes you just started argueing with comments I didn't even make, that is pretty rude (for example you said I said yallop influenced and developed, I said he helped land them their premo gigs as a hype man.

If you argue with an imaginary juby, and out of nowhere tell me I said something I didn't then of course you'll win every arguement you have cause you never actually dealt with much of what I actually said.

[Grizzly]

What you said in your first post is that we have a very strong youth program presently with a lot of players coming up who are performing well (I agree) AND that Yallop was who you credited for that (with which I strongly disagree). Mitchell is involved in the discussion because like Ossieck but unlike Yallop he has been involved in creating and running the youth development system during the period in which this improvement occured.

[Juby]

you assumed I meant he was directly responsible like a coach for their development, I never said that, and when you ASSUME, you make and ASS-out-of-U-and-ME

[Guest Ed]

You got part of that right anyway.

[Kevin in NS]

Merry Christmas....

small prezzy here for you all.

Name of candidate for MNT position is Stephen Constantine.

[bettermirror]

<mod> we could discuss or we can argue - decide <mod>

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Kevin in NS

Merry Christmas....

small prezzy here for you all.

Name of candidate for MNT position is Stephen Constantine.

Wow what a surprise! All of your 17 posts so far have been about this guy. What exactly is your relationship to him or are you in fact Stephen Constantine? A little bit of advice, if you are a candidate for a serious post do not promote yourself or have friends promote you on an internet forum. Very unprofessional. If I were president of the CSA and read this I would immediately take him out of consideration for the post. Constantine has basically no chance at the position anyway, he does not have enough experience with top level or even mid-level teams. The only impressive position he has held has been with Milwall but that was very unsuccessful and Millwall was relegated. He would be a good candidate for the U-17 or U-20 job if Mitchell or Hart are promoted or move on but again promoting yourself through fanforums is not the way to get such a job.

[SoccMan]

Listen all, Osiek, Yallop whatever, but in the end it was Lenarduzzi, yes Lenarduzzi who was the coach since 1986 that brought Canada within about 60 minutes or so from qualifying for the 1994 USA World Cup. The great Osiek and Yallop were not able to even get Canada to the last round of qualifying or get out of the first round of qualifying. In the end national team coaches are measured by results and both these clowns could not even get us to the last round, never mind qualifying for the big dance. Thanks Lenny for at least getting us very close at giving us a chance to dream.

[puskas]

I would put Osieck's Gold Cup victory up there or better than Lenarduzzi's 1993 qualifying campaign. Bobby came close but his team still did not get the job done while Osieck's team won the Gold Cup. Remember the Gold Cup is the European Championship for our region. Great result!

[The Ref]

Osieck's campaign was helped by a coin!

[puskas]

Fair enough but to achieve anything big in the soccer world you need luck on your side. How many times a German side has won with luck on their side? The coin toss sure helped however after that beating Mexico, Trinidad and Columbia was not luck. Give your head a shake.

[loyola]

And a few months later we weren't able to qualify for the hex.....

With Bobby L. we were one game away form USA 1994 and we qualified for the Hex in 1997. Osieck wasn't even able to bring us close to where Bobby L. brought his teams.

And in 1994, only one team from CONCACAF was qualifying, so finishing second was an excellent result.

[Kevin in NS]

Dear Grizzled one .... blah, blah blah, we (Canada) are not "top level or even a mid-level team" I named him because most are speculating about who might be qualified/interested or apply and he has applied and received a ack. of his CV being recieved.

It is what it is ... a fact and nothing more.

Thank goodness you are not CSA Pres.

[Grizzly]

If one is to divide nations into top, mid and low level teams, Canada is a mid-level team while India and Nepal are definitely low level teams. Regardless of how one categorizes nations, Canada is far, far better than India or Nepal. India recently was beaten 3-1 by the Vancouver Whitecaps! I sure hope we are getting some more interesting applications than Stephen Constantine because Dale Mitchell is much more qualified than Constantine and whether Mitchell has been pre-chosen for the position or not I would like to think that the selection committee will at least have some interesting alternatives to Mitchell to consider.

I am not interested in being CSA pres. but if you think anyone in the CSA is going to be impressed by your promoting him on a fanboard you are sadly mistaken. Promoting Stephen Constantine seems to be the only reason you are on the board and believe me it is not winning either you or him (assuming you are not one and the same) any credibility.