El Hombre Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Look at the Hungry game was that team not organized? It looked so to me, maybe I am not an expert like you. Yes, they were very disorganized in Hungary. The midfield looked makeshift at best. It didn't seem like anyone knew what their role was. We were allowed to pass around them and look</u> organized because they (Hungary) were young and inexperienced. quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Mitchell's ultra defensive style as shown against Colombia & Italy is maybe what you want. Good luck getting a single shot on goal. And yet, for most of the game against Hungary, it looked like Hart went with a single target forward up front. I think we could've taken the game to them a little bit more. This whould've given us more quality opportunities against a young inexperienced team like Hungary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Look at the Hungry game was that team not organized? It looked so to me, maybe I am not an expert like you. Yes, they were very disorganized in Hungary. The midfield looked makeshift at best. It didn't seem like anyone knew what their role was. We were allowed to pass around them and look</u> organized because they (Hungary) were young and inexperienced. quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Mitchell's ultra defensive style as shown against Colombia & Italy is maybe what you want. Good luck getting a single shot on goal. And yet, for most of the game against Hungary, it looked like Hart went with a single target forward up front. I think we could've taken the game to them a little bit more. This whould've given us more quality opportunities against a young inexperienced team like Hungary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by wildboy26 Hirschfeld has not been part of the Canadian Soccer program for almost 2 years now and there are still people talking about him as if he is part of the team *Yawn* Lars was called up for the Hungary match last week, but turned it down due to injury. Your useless little diatribes are nothing more than trolling at this point and should be dealt with as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Mitchell's ultra defensive style as shown against Colombia & Italy is maybe what you want. Good luck getting a single shot on goal. Was it Mitchell's ultra-defensive style that led to Canada's 2-1 victory over Brazil this past summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ANC2 Grizzley as I said before you are on a personal agenda. Big sigh (will the idiocy never end?). What pray tell is my agenda? Am I bigoted against white Trinidadians? Am I pissed off because Hart's gypsy grandmother stole all my illegitimate children and led them to a life of travelling around the Caribbean in a Gypsy jazz musical convoy when I would have preferred them to come to Germany with me and learn how to play Bach? Actually never met the man and have only heard from other Voyageurs that have that he is a very nice guy (which doesn't make him a good coach by the way). What is your agenda that you make such idiotic accusations? In case you are actually interested in the truth instead of spreading BS on the board, my personal agenda is actually that I want our national team to have a good, competent coach who will help us play to our potential and qualify for the World Cup. Under Holger Canada won both the North American Championship and finished with a winning record something that not a lot of Canadian coaches have achieved. Yes he failed in WCQ like the others except for Waiters (our most successful coach to date). Unlike coaches like Yallop and Lenarduzzi who were total failures, Osieck had partial success even though he failed to reach the ultimate goal. His abrassive personality was his undoing but he was in my opinion the only decent coach we have had since Waiters. Note, that I call him decent not excellent or outstanding merely competent. I would like us to hire a coach who is better than Osieck and far better than Yallop or Hart. Mitchell by any standard has been very successful at the U-20 level but would still be a gamble at the Men's level and in my opinion we need to stop gambling and hire someone we know will do a good job. I don't necessarily want a defensive coach either (in fact I want a winning coach, ie. a coach who can win with the players we have available regardless of his method) but I do want someone who will attach more importance to the defence than Yallop or Hart. Strangely enough an awful lot of other posters commented on how disorganized we looked in the Hungary game thread before I had posted anything so I guess there are an awful lot of people who also have an agenda. How anyone can support Hart for the job is beyond me. What exactly are his qualifications other than the three games as interim coach? Where has he had success as a coach and at what level? I gave him credit on another thread for bringing back some of our disaffected players but otherwise he has been a big step down from even the coaching level of my less than favourite guy Yallop. Great record he has so far, a lucky win against a Jamaica B-side, a loss against a stronger Jamaica side and a loss against an experimental young team from a mediocre European soccer nation. Lets hire that guy for sure! 1 win and 2 loses against less than stellar opposition. By the way: could have won, looked good, if we didn't miss those chances, if we didn't make that mistake, it was a close game that could have either way, we almost qualified; doesn't cut it in soccer and I am not going to buy such arguments from either Hart or Yallop supporters. Give me a coach that wins and I will support him all the way. Incidentally, Mr. Soccer Expert, you still haven't answered my earlier question in this thread so I will repeat it: Who are all the superstars that Jamaica and T&T have who are better than all of our players? Seems like your player evaluation abilities are on par with your coaching evaluation abilities. Guys that don't have any reasonable arguments usually resort to baseless accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildboy26 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Lars was called up for the Hungary match last week, but turned it down due to injury. Your useless little diatribes are nothing more than trolling at this point and should be dealt with as such. *yawns* Lars has not played for Canada in almost 2 years, the only 2 times he has been called in the last 10 games was when he was injured. All 8 times he was healthy he was ignored, often for much inferior indidivuals like Statamopolous. Amazing coincidence, but enough to satisfy the naive and clueless, which I am not among. Continue living in your own world of naivety and stupidity which is the only world people that believe Lars has been part of the Canadian program for the last 2 years or ever will be again live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 You're really endearing yourself to others with the insults, aren't you? /troll you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 So wildboy you're slamming other MNT members now? Hirschfeld will never play for Canada ever again, ever. The world hates him. Now that the one player you like is gone from our program like you keep saying, how about you just great off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin mellobell Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly Can't speak to the issue of superstars, but it's not to hard to get a sense of how teams compare. You would think that really good players would be playing it the top leagues, and lesser players in lower leagues and lower ranked teams. Below is a list of the T&T roster for the World Cup with their home clubs and a similar list for Canada's roster against Hungary, with a few no shows added. I don't know enough about league and team rankings to say much, but they both have a couple of EPL players, some CL players, some MLS players and some domestic league players. The T&T roster has probably changed, but, equally probably, not dramatically. [b]Trinidad and Tobago[/b] Hislop Shaka FC Dallas Cox,Ian Gillingham John Avery New England Revolution Andrews Marvin Glasgow Rangers Sancho Brent Gillingham Lawrence Dennis Wrexham AFC Birchall Christopher Port Vale Gray Cyd CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh Whitley Aurtis CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh Latapy Russell Falkirk FC Edwards Carlos Luton Town Samuel Collin Dundee United Glen Cornell LA Galaxy John Stern Derby County Jones Kenwyne Southampton Wise Evans Waldhof Mannheim Charles Atiba Vibe CT 105 W Connection Theobald Densill Falkirk FC Yorke Dwight Sydney FC Scotland Jason St Johnstone Jack Kelvin (Gk) Dundee FC Ince Clayton (Gk) Coventry City Wolfe Anthon CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh [b]Canada[/b] Bernier, Patrice Tromso Braz, Adam Montreal Impact de Guzman, Julian Deportivo da Coruña de Rosario, Dwayne Houston Dynamo Friend, Rob Heerenveen Hainault, Andrew FK SIAD Most Hume, Iain Leicester City Hutchinson, Atiba FC Copenhagen Jazic, Ante L.A. Galaxy Nakajima, Issey-Farran Vejle Boldklub Nsaliwa, Tam Palonius Ornoch, Andrzej Papa Lombard FC Peters, Jaime Ipswich Town Pozniak, Chris Haugesund FK Radzinski, Tomasz Fulham Serioux, Adrian Houston Dynamo Stalteri, Paul Tottenham Hotspur FC Sutton, Greg Montreal Impact Wagenaar, Josh ADO Den Haag It would be possible to do this for every contender except Cuba. If they didn't prefer baseball, basketball and volley ball (and athletics) to soccer, it would be very tough indeed for anyone to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Julian plays with Deportivo, not Feyenoord. Good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin mellobell Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Julian plays with Deportivo, not Feyenoord. Good comparison. Thanks. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 A neutral observer would have to conclude that we have players at a higher level than T&T (when you also consider several top flight players are off our latest list). It's all about coaching, preparation and (perhaps not last) luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANC2 Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 I took my time to respond just to see how clear people are thinking. Now let me make something clear, I like Dale Mitchel as a coach but I believe he is very defensive, which is something I do not like. Lets look at Canada over the last 6 years. Forget where the players are playing, Canada's record in CONCACAF is poor. Struggling against teams like Panama, Cuba, Martinique and Trinidad. Be it Holger or Yallop as coach. These countries may not boast players in La Liga, Bundesliga or Premier but they do have proven players who score goals in CONCACAF. Canada has no one to do that since Catlif & Mitchel. Just look at Stern John record at an International level. No amount of coaching can make up for a lack of a proven goal scorer. Anyone in football will tell you that. Look at Barca without Eto or Arsenal without Henry, Brazil with an out of form Ronaldo. Coaching is limited to the players available. Carlos Perriera could not hold down a team for more than one year after winning the WC in 94. Why because Saudi Arabia and Metro Stars did not have the players. If you deny what I say then why did Berti Vogts fail with Scotland. He was very successful with Germany. All I am saying when I started this thread is that Canada still needs better players in key areas of the field,. If this does not happen Canada's top scorer in the last 5 years will remain McKenna. Sorry if I hurt peoples feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Well Berti Vogts failed in Scotland because he misunderstood Scottish football, footballers and their fans. Basicaly, he suffered from Frankie Yallop Syndrome. Wishing he could play a certain way in spite of what he had and not playing with what he had in a certain way, if you follow. Add the infinate layers of politics which come with managing a national squad in a mature footballing nation like Scotland (not Canada) as an outsider and you can see the problems long before they start. I'd say your argument around our (Canada's) inability to overcome our smaller CONCACAF opponents has been taken very readily to heart. It's taken decades but the CSA has finaly learned from the CONCACAF experience that a core of players, journeymen if you well, familiar with each other and like minded in their play being supported/complimented by overseas "ringers" may be the way to go. And so, enter this MLS scheme which so many Voyageurs either love or hate. Totaly agree about the goal scoring bit. Will give you that. How the ball goes into the goal is neither here nor there though. That during the last WCQ cycle our manager completely turned his back on Canada's one advantage over EVERY OTHER CONCACAF NATION (ie the air war) in favour of the Dwayne de Rossario Show I'll never understand. But ah well. I feel no shame in having the like of Big Kev McKenna as Canada's goal scoring poster boy. He's Canadian from toe to crown and theres no mistaking it. P.S. Small correction. Gotta give the Devil his due, the Yanks are pretty damned good in the air too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Whether Berti Vogts is a good coach or not is very debateable. His only coaching success was a good run when what was a very good German national team won the EURO yet for most of his reign the German results were very disappointing particularly in the World Cup. Vogts left the job as probably the most unpopular coach with both fans and players in German history. He followed this up with disasterous stints with Bayer Leverkusen and Scotland. At Leverkusen one of his former national team players even gave him the finger on the field when he played against Leverkusen summing up the feeling of most national team players towards him. I personally think that Vogts is a very poor coach who was lucky to coach a top team and have one good run with them. A poor coach can often have success with a top team but a good coach is one who can elevate a team of any level to perform beyond their means. Once again ANC2 you have not backed up your claim that either T and T or Jamaica have superior players to ours. I do think T and T has a superior strike force to ours in Stern John and Dwight Yorke but both are at the end of their careers and the rest of the team is not that impressive. Yet during the one great success of their nation's national team they were indeed playing under one of the World's Elite coaches in Leo Beenhakker (has won both the Dutch and Spanish championships three times each and also had significant international experience) and this contributed greatly to their success. You may be right that we can't afford a Beenhakker but that doesn't change the fact that TnT qualified for the WC playing under a top international coach not under someone like Stephen Hart. Once again I ask, who are these superior TnT and Jamaican national team players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANC2 Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Some may argue that T&T success was more down to the return of Latapy , Yorke and John's form at the right time, plus Warner & Luck. They were all but out against Guatemala until a piece of Latapy magic and then a final game against Mexico who already qualified and once again John was the man. Presently they still have John, Jones, Seely and Glenn all who can score goals. Now Jamaica Ricardo Gardner - Bolton Wonderers Claude Davis - Sheffield United Donovan Ricketts - Bradford City Jermaine Johnson - Bradford City Damion Stewart - Queens Park Rangers Ricardo Fuller - Southampton FC Jason Euell - Charlton Athletic Jamal Campbell-Ryce - Watford City Kevin Lisbie - Charlton Marlon King - Watford Damien Francis - Watford Grant -Watford Deon Burton Ian Goodison - Tranmere Rover Now tell me if these players have more attacking potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvin mellobell Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by ANC2 ... Now Jamaica ... Grant -Watford Deon Burton Ian Goodison - Tranmere Rover ... I believe Burton plays for Sheffield Wednesday gh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Jamaica may have more attacking players, but Fuller (now at Stoke) is the only one with a decent strike rate and I wouldn't be too worried about the likes of him. Radzinski will score in the championship next season, and Paul P has been doing it for years, as is Hume. It doesn't translate to international football. Also, with the exception of Euell (Nnow at Boro), the premiership guys who are playing are all going to be relegated from the looks of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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