Daniel Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan not to beat a dead horse, but you must agree that a balance has to be reached with our young guys that can play radz spot (johnson, peters), and radz playing. this is not being done and it will hurt us much more than any positives radz may give us. Ever heard of substitutions? You're also forgetting that there is a U20 WC coming to Canada and the team gets together regularly. The two players mentioned have been unavailable the last two times out and before that, Radz has proved himself more dangerous in that spot than Peters at the senior level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hottoddy7 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Isn't Johnson a striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 quote:Originally posted by hottoddy7 Isn't Johnson a striker? We're playing a one-striker system for the moment and guess where our current guy plays... That's right, ahead of Johnson on the Heerenven team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Okay, so what do we know in terms of tv, radio, or web broadcasts for this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 First off, I'm fine with the team selected as it is. I also hope that Nsaliwa and Hirschfeld will have another look sometime too. On bringing in young players into the team, they need to be clearly ready for this level of play. That means that they must have the ability to understand a relatively unfamiliar system of play and do it with players they haven't played with for while and do so after two or three practice days. The reason for the bias towards more experienced players is obvious. Those who think that these rushed trips for games in places like Jamaica are development opportunities for young players should reconsider just how much of a development opportunity they really are. Anyone who has done a significant amount of coaching at any level will know that there is not much that you can do to help individual players in a few days. Practices will no doubt be dedicated to organizing the team play. To expect a national coach to teach young players their role within the team is probably being unrealistic. Aside from being some of the more skillful players, national coaches would favour using players like Stalteri, Radzinski, de Guzman and McKenna because they have played in various systems and at various positions (Philip Cocu would be an example with the Netherlands). By using this type of flexible player, it is easier to establish a new system in the time available. Using a very young player (even a very skillful one) would require far more time to build a the system for the game to be played. National team selection is not as big of an individual player development opportunity as many suggest here. For players like Peters and Johnson, their development would be better served working with coaches at their clubs rather than lose training days travelling to places like Jamaica. Both Ipswich and Herenveen are quality development opportunities. I have no problems bringing in young players when they are ready but I don't think either Peters or Johnson are ready for the full national team. Again, these friendlies should be used by the National Coach to establish a system of play that would only be adjusted rather than changed. By doing so, the team would form over a series of games. Once the system of play is established, then you can bring in young players (one or two at a time). Unfortunately, the CSA doesn't see it necessary to name a permanent coach at this time which means the system of play could change again in six months with the new coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I'll disagree with you about the young players, who should be integrated to the senior team as quickly as they can to get used to the international level they'll be playing at. I hope to see 2-3 U20s in our GC07 roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 CSA ADDS NASH to the Jamaica friendly http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/media/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=2547 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Well, I certainly didn't expect Nash to be the call-up but am actually very happy about his selection. It is probably too late to get someone released from Europe, so it made sense to call a USL player. Hart probably wanted offensive/playmaking cover, for Simpson and Radzinski. The back-seven is already in good shape. Sigma; Martin was born in December, 1975 -- currently 30 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje On bringing in young players into the team, they need to be clearly ready for this level of play. That means that they must have the ability to understand a relatively unfamiliar system of play and do it with players they haven't played with for while and do so after two or three practice days. The reason for the bias towards more experienced players is obvious. Those who think that these rushed trips for games in places like Jamaica are development opportunities for young players should reconsider just how much of a development opportunity they really are. Anyone who has done a significant amount of coaching at any level will know that there is not much that you can do to help individual players in a few days. Practices will no doubt be dedicated to organizing the team play. To expect a national coach to teach young players their role within the team is probably being unrealistic. Aside from being some of the more skillful players, national coaches would favour using players like Stalteri, Radzinski, de Guzman and McKenna because they have played in various systems and at various positions (Philip Cocu would be an example with the Netherlands). By using this type of flexible player, it is easier to establish a new system in the time available. Using a very young player (even a very skillful one) would require far more time to build a the system for the game to be played. National team selection is not as big of an individual player development opportunity as many suggest here. For players like Peters and Johnson, their development would be better served working with coaches at their clubs rather than lose training days travelling to places like Jamaica. Both Ipswich and Herenveen are quality development opportunities. I have no problems bringing in young players when they are ready but I don't think either Peters or Johnson are ready for the full national team. I agree with many of these points, Oranje, especially with the development of younger players. With regards to my opinions about Klukowski, I strongly believe that you don't take a young player that spends his time at club level regular training in the tactical requirements of left fullback, bring him in for a friendly with two or three days training in the centre of defence, and then hope he is the solution for the centre back partnership. Maybe he has been training at Brugge in centre back or sweeper, I don't know, and maybe during the brief training sessions prior to the friendly he looks like a world beater at centre back: I just believe that a player's success on the field is tied more to a role he is familiar with on a regular basis. I would argue that positional flexibility with a player has as much to do with his footballing skill and intelligence as well as with the playing culture in which he has grown up, possibly even more than his collective club and team experiences. I'm not sure that some of the senior players you mentioned are that flexible and I think their performances aren't as good as they could or should be: De Guzman playing more of a defensive role in midfield at Hannover (correct me if I am wrong) then expected to be an important attacking weapon during the last WCQ; Stalteri playing as a right wingback for Bremen then as the starting right fullback for Spurs all last year, playing recently as a central mid vs Jamaica. I felt Hutchison did a great job at the Gold Cup in an unfamiliar role of centre back, but to me that was the exception (I'd rather see him as a midfielder for MNT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje On bringing in young players into the team, they need to be clearly ready for this level of play. That means that they must have the ability to understand a relatively unfamiliar system of play and do it with players they haven't played with for while and do so after two or three practice days. The reason for the bias towards more experienced players is obvious. Those who think that these rushed trips for games in places like Jamaica are development opportunities for young players should reconsider just how much of a development opportunity they really are. Anyone who has done a significant amount of coaching at any level will know that there is not much that you can do to help individual players in a few days. Practices will no doubt be dedicated to organizing the team play. To expect a national coach to teach young players their role within the team is probably being unrealistic. Aside from being some of the more skillful players, national coaches would favour using players like Stalteri, Radzinski, de Guzman and McKenna because they have played in various systems and at various positions (Philip Cocu would be an example with the Netherlands). By using this type of flexible player, it is easier to establish a new system in the time available. Using a very young player (even a very skillful one) would require far more time to build a the system for the game to be played. National team selection is not as big of an individual player development opportunity as many suggest here. For players like Peters and Johnson, their development would be better served working with coaches at their clubs rather than lose training days travelling to places like Jamaica. Both Ipswich and Herenveen are quality development opportunities. I have no problems bringing in young players when they are ready but I don't think either Peters or Johnson are ready for the full national team. I agree with many of these points, Oranje, especially with the development of younger players. With regards to my opinions about Klukowski, I strongly believe that you don't take a young player that spends his time at club level regular training in the tactical requirements of left fullback, bring him in for a friendly with two or three days training in the centre of defence, and then hope he is the solution for the centre back partnership. Maybe he has been training at Brugge in centre back or sweeper, I don't know, and maybe during the brief training sessions prior to the friendly he looks like a world beater at centre back: I just believe that a player's success on the field is tied more to a role he is familiar with on a regular basis. I would argue that positional flexibility with a player has as much to do with his footballing skill and intelligence as well as with the playing culture in which he has grown up, possibly even more than his collective club and team experiences. I'm not sure that some of the senior players you mentioned are that flexible and I think their performances aren't as good as they could or should be: De Guzman playing more of a defensive role in midfield at Hannover (correct me if I am wrong) then expected to be an important attacking weapon during the last WCQ; Stalteri playing as a right wingback for Bremen then as the starting right fullback for Spurs all last year, playing recently as a central mid vs Jamaica. I felt Hutchison did a great job at the Gold Cup in an unfamiliar role of centre back, but to me that was the exception (I'd rather see him as a midfielder for MNT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Nash has been added to the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Nash has been added to the roster. That news is SO 4 posts ago. [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 It CAN hurt to have a guy like Nash in the roster. It can hurt the 20-23 y/o young snd rising player that could have taken his place and learned a lot from just being around the older professionals, even if only for a few days. I joked that it was gonna be Clarke - in hindsight he would have been a better choice based at least on his play this past year. I guess this call-up is just a staff aprreciation promo holiday. No vision for the future whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 It seems to me that it's a last minute call and I guess that maybe a couple of players were ask before they asked Nash and couldn't go. It's tough to have someone based in Europe when calling him 5-6 days before the game. And our U-20's are in Czech Republic, so chill out and think about the benefits of playing 2 internationals youth friendlies compare to travelling to Jamaica and spending a whole game onn the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJT Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Nash??? Over most of the season many Whitecaps fans didn't think that he should have been playing for them. He did get better towards the end, but overall he was very inconsistent from game to game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacks Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Nash looks fat and slow. Does he have the same diet as Carlo? I saw him on the tele last week in the USL Final. He can still cross but very, very slow. JOHN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well he certainly is not out of shape and he never had a lot of speed but he played very well in the last few games of the season. I guess he's a good fill in but don't excpect that he'd be considered for 2008 WC qualifying games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 I too find this a bit of a useless call up. Nash was always a good crosser but otherwise was a pretty borderline MNT player even when he was in his prime and we had less talent available. I don't see him having much of a future with the MNT. While the excuse is being used that it is last minute and maybe no one else was available, why is it last minute? Everyone on this board has been saying for months that DeRo and Jazic would not be available because of important MLS games. It was absolutely predictable that they would not be available and would not be released so why call them only to be forced to make a useless last minute substitution. If the Voyageurs clue into this a month ago why does our coaching staff not know that up to a week before the friendly. It would be nice for the new coach to see Jazic or DeRo but neither are such crucial players for us that you risk a last minute cancellation in order to call them, there are adequate candidates to replace either of them. In general I don't have a problem with the lineup though I wanted to see Lars and Nsaliwa but this is completely amateuristic on the part of the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Jazic and DeRo aren't available because their respective teams are in a playoffs race. If LA would've been eliminated or Houston assured that they would finish 2nd or the 1st would've been reacheable I'm pretty sure Jazic would've been there and maybe DeRo. I think that's why their names where there in the first time, the CSA maybe had agreements with Yallop and Kinnear. It's not a case of the Voyageurs knowing for a long time and Hart being an idiot...... Who should've been called instead of Nash on a short notice? With the MTL Impact I don't see a lot of option, maybe Leduc? Witn Vancouver, Matondo? Jordan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 quote:Originally posted by loyola Who should've been called instead of Nash on a short notice? With the MTL Impact I don't see a lot of option, maybe Leduc? Definitely not Leduc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA Definitely not Leduc. That's my point, not much choice among the players of those 2 teams (considering that the Lynx have finished their season weeks ago and that it must be tougher to get their players). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly I too find this a bit of a useless call up. Nash was always a good crosser but otherwise was a pretty borderline MNT player even when he was in his prime and we had less talent available. I don't see him having much of a future with the MNT. While the excuse is being used that it is last minute and maybe no one else was available, why is it last minute? Everyone on this board has been saying for months that DeRo and Jazic would not be available because of important MLS games. It was absolutely predictable that they would not be available and would not be released so why call them only to be forced to make a useless last minute substitution. If the Voyageurs clue into this a month ago why does our coaching staff not know that up to a week before the friendly. It would be nice for the new coach to see Jazic or DeRo but neither are such crucial players for us that you risk a last minute cancellation in order to call them, there are adequate candidates to replace either of them. In general I don't have a problem with the lineup though I wanted to see Lars and Nsaliwa but this is completely amateuristic on the part of the coaching staff. Absolutely. Right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver Fan Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 quote:Originally posted by loyola Jazic and DeRo aren't available because their respective teams are in a playoffs race. If LA would've been eliminated or Houston assured that they would finish 2nd or the 1st would've been reacheable I'm pretty sure Jazic would've been there and maybe DeRo. I think that's why their names where there in the first time, the CSA maybe had agreements with Yallop and Kinnear. It's not a case of the Voyageurs knowing for a long time and Hart being an idiot...... Who should've been called instead of Nash on a short notice? With the MTL Impact I don't see a lot of option, maybe Leduc? Witn Vancouver, Matondo? Jordan? Although both are defenders, which Canada has enough of,Lyall or Kindel from Vancouver were both great Canadian contributers this year. Jordan is definitely not fit and will probably need surgery on his foot this off season. Clarke would have been a possibility but it has been revealed that he played injured during the Montreal away semi and the USL final after being hit by a van driven by a valet in a parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Both of them are defenders and almost 30 with no internationals experience. It seems that we have enough defensive players on this squad and that Hart was looking for an offensive player with the loss of DeRo. I think it's a temporary selection and I would agree that it's sad that there's no Nsaliwa or Hainault to take that spot but in the end it's an emergency call up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 having never seen him play, im wondering if jaime dodds might have been a better last minute callup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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