Grass v Real Turf

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Irregardless and regardless have identical meanings. Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements 'ir' and 'less' (double negatives are generally unacceptable in English). Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. The word first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in an American comic radio program of the 1930s. Its use has been considered a blunder for decades and continues to be considered so.

Let's hear it for Richard. He is correct. Regardless that I think the question was in jest.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

... ball seemed to bounce fairly similar to grass.

Similar but not equal. One thing is true, it bounces consistently the same any part of the field, but the bounce is short and cushioned. In other words, predictable. I much rather have the unpredictability of real grass. If organizations would spend the same they do for the cost of the plastic, sprinklers, replenishing the rubber bits, and general maintenance, on real grass fields, they would be able to have beautiful grass. The problem seems to be the overuse of grass fields. So it makes more sense to me to spend the same money and build 10 more grass fields to alleviate the overuse. The plastic gets all crushed and flattened with overuse as well. It does not bounce back like live grass does.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Irregardless and regardless have identical meanings. Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements 'ir' and 'less' (double negatives are generally unacceptable in English). Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. The word first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in an American comic radio program of the 1930s. Its use has been considered a blunder for decades and continues to be considered so.

Mommentary threadjack;

Silly Cheeta and his confusing provincial ways. Just for future reference, allow me to introduce some of Winnipeg's east end working class lingo to my countrymen. Frequency of use and familiarity of some of these words/phrases will vary with the age of those concearned.

iregardless=regardless

gitch=mens underware

ditch pig="extra skanky with lots of hard miles on her but still always ready to go" bar cougar.

scribbler=notebook

refrigerator=fridge

Sev=7/11

Spongee=a goofy street hockey sort of game played in a hockey rink

Chesterfield=couch or sofa

P.L.B="parking-lot-beating"

weight in pints=a hard nights drinking

doing the worm=a hard nights drinking

pub crawl=a hard nights drinking, but at numerous establishments

rice zipper=Asian sports car, often customized.

mama's boy/daddys girl=still-lives-at-home-with-their-parents adult

provincial holiday=time spent in jail

dole=unemployment insurance

Johnny/j/doobie/Marley=joint

Sniffers Row=the seats on the runway at a strip club

Sold it to Autopac=stolen/smashed car who's insurance value exceeded it's real worth

less popular but still out there phrases & terms;

Ruggel/zig-zag/gangster=a "disposable" lowest level street gang wanna-be

Doing the "x" thing=hanging out on street, or location "x" doing nothing

Martha Stewart=working class social climber who's trying too hard

Transcona Girl=refering to a one night (or less) stand

Hot Carl=middle aged guy hitting on girls his daughters age at a bar

She's got a good doctor=those tits aren't real

God's flashlight=the unwelcome dawn which follows a sleepless night

So on and so forth..

[shaku_bert]

LOL Cheeta, you are so Winnipeg it hurts! The best of your comments was "ruggles" who as every 'pegger knows is the name of an infamous family of ne'er do wells. And in the north end, we referred to ditch pig as ditch "great" (if you know what I mean).

un-hi-jack follows:

the field turf issue seems a contentious one. If players are going to stay away, our stadium is going to become a white elephant. I understand the feeling that we need a surface that is ameniable to our climate, but it we can't have a stadium that no-one wishes to visit.

I have to say though, the stuff that is installed at Canad_inn stadium is one hundred times better than what we used to have. I have never tried to play soccer on it nor am I anywhere close to an international calibre athlete so what do I kow.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by jeffymac1971

The Surface that Dumfurline used was XL Turf, not fieldturf and XL is not FIFA approved where Fieldturf is.

Woops. I was under the assumption that the products were all the same. Similar to Xerox being synonmous with photocopy, and Band Aid as two examples.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Well it is FieldTurf or no BMO Field and no Toronto FC - take your pick.

I pick no BMO Field, and no Toronto FC. The hopes of Canadian soccer resting on one team, and one stadium are ridiculous. Vancouver and Montreal are both building new parks, and those would certainly suffice for the national team program, as they are both going to be grass.

Furthermore, one club does not a national program make. If the CSA had any vision, they would use their resources to create their own National League, as opposed to riding the wake of another American venture.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

I pick no BMO Field, and no Toronto FC. The hopes of Canadian soccer resting on one team, and one stadium are ridiculous. Vancouver and Montreal are both building new parks, and those would certainly suffice for the national team program, as they are both going to be grass.

Furthermore, one club does not a national program make. If the CSA had any vision, they would use their resources to create their own National League, as opposed to riding the wake of another American venture.

Don't you think that is kind of absurd?

Pick no stadium and no TFC over the field type?

That is an insane choice.

If you have the team and stadium, it could become grass later.

That is truly thowing the baby out with the bath water.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Let's hear it for Richard. He is correct. Regardless that I think the question was in jest.

Probably in jest but I wonder how many here really knew the answer.

[Richard]

My local municapal park has just had its second FieldTurf pitch installed. The second pitch is noticably better then the first. I am more than willing to accept that the quality of the final product has as much to do with the way it is installed and maintained as it does to the design of the surface itself. The same product has been installed in several parks in this city and they do definitely vary one from the other.

The WNT will be playing an exhibition game on the new pitch next week.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

My local municapal park has just had its second FieldTurf pitch installed. The second pitch is noticably better then the first. I am more than willing to accept that the quality of the final product has as much to do with the way it is installed and maintained as it does to the design of the surface itself. The same product has been installed in several parks in this city and they do definitely vary one from the other.

The WNT will be playing an exhibition game on the new pitch next week.

Here's some math:

Your local municipal park < National Soccer Stadium

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

My local municapal park has just had its second FieldTurf pitch installed. The second pitch is noticably better then the first. I am more than willing to accept that the quality of the final product has as much to do with the way it is installed and maintained as it does to the design of the surface itself. The same product has been installed in several parks in this city and they do definitely vary one from the other.

The WNT will be playing an exhibition game on the new pitch next week.

Just curious. Why was it necessary to replace it? At a million dollars a pop is kind of expensive. Not to sound simplistic, but grass mainly just needs water and fertilizer.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Here's some math:

Your local municipal park < National Soccer Stadium

I was not trying to make a comparison between a local community park and the BMO Field, merely providing supporting evidence as to why BMO Field has to be FieldTurf in order to fulfil the requirement by the funding agencies for it to be used as a local community resource for Toronto as well as by the national teams and Toronto FC. I am quite sure, given his 'druthers', even Kevan Pipe would prefer a natural grass surface and have the place used only by Toronto FC for league games and the occasional international game but that just ain't gonna happen.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Just curious. Why was it necessary to replace it? At a million dollars a pop is kind of expensive. Not to sound simplistic, but grass mainly just needs water and fertilizer.

This was a second pitch, not replacement of the turf on the first pitch. This same park has a superb fenced grass pitch too, but it is strictly limited to not more than one senior game or two youth games per day with no practises. Anything more and the turf deteriorates badly. Some of the other secondary grass pitches at this location have had FieldTurf patches installed in front of the goal mouths because the heavy use that get meant they couldn't last the season without turning into mudbaths and they are high grade well drained grass pitches.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Similar but not equal. One thing is true, it bounces consistently the same any part of the field, but the bounce is short and cushioned. In other words, predictable. I much rather have the unpredictability of real grass. If organizations would spend the same they do for the cost of the plastic, sprinklers, replenishing the rubber bits, and general maintenance, on real grass fields, they would be able to have beautiful grass. The problem seems to be the overuse of grass fields. So it makes more sense to me to spend the same money and build 10 more grass fields to alleviate the overuse. The plastic gets all crushed and flattened with overuse as well. It does not bounce back like live grass does.

Actually what I should have said (though I think you are picking at straws and my meaning was apparent) is that watching on tv one does not notice the difference in the turf or the bounce. I had watched quite a few Luzniki games before I knew it was Field Turf without noticing any difference. It is quite possible that the players notice a difference but the spectators do not. I think most Russian soccer fans are not even aware that Luzniki is Field Turf. I haven't heard about players in the Russian league or the visiting teams in Champion's League complaining about the Luzniki surface. It should also be mentioned that there are many pro teams who have practice fields that are Field Turf and practice on it regularly even if they do not play their matches on it.

I like playing on Field Turf but obviously playing on it for an hour is different than training on it regularly at a high level. I do think it is given short shrift because it is probably better than a fairly large percentage of grass fields (in Canada for example we have played NT games on poor grass fields such as CCR, Richardson and Commonwealth [this can be a good field but is often in bad condition due to use] which were all probably worse than a Field Turf field). On the other hand, unlike Stalteri and DeGuzman I have never played on Premiership, Bundesliga or La Liga quality grass fields to compare with Field Turf. I also agree with Richard's point that the CSA might not have had a choice and that given the amount of public funds going into the stadium some levels of government may have demanded that the stadium be open for use by local groups. I do think there is some bias and ignorance in many player's opposition to Field Turf. Yet considering this is our national team stadium I would also prefer a good grass field. Yet a decent soccer stadium with a Field Turf field is better than no stadium at all and the surface can always be changed at a latter date.

[Grizzly]

Here is an excerpt from the FIFA article on the Spartak-Sporting game at Luzhniki. They state it is the first CL game on artificial surface but they must not be counting the qualifying games which Spartak also played at Luzniki:

FC Spartak Moskva were made to pay for a succession of missed chances as Nani's second-half equaliser allowed Sporting Clube de Portugal to claim a 1-1 draw in UEFA Champions League Group B in Moscow.

Nani strike

It was the first time a match in the competition had been played on a synthetic pitch, but Sporting appeared unaffected by the surface as Nani struck 14 minutes into the second half just as Spartak looked set to run away with the game.

[Daniel]

I don't understand why they couldn't have an adjacent covered Fieldturf pitch for winter. The bubble doesn't need the stadium, just a field.

This can not end well and will blow up in the CSA's face one way or another. Let's hope it doesn't blow up in the fans' faces, too.

[Richard]

It will only blow up in faces if people like you make it so.

[cndsoccer]

i think julian and paul should not be burning there bridges...

they can't even get on the subs bench these days.

tfc may be there only option soon.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

It will only blow up in faces if people like you make it so.

Thanks for making sense. Of course, "people like me" are in charge of scheduling, planning AND playing games at the stadium. Good to know.

[Guest speedmonk42]

Thanks for making sense. Of course, "people like me" are in charge of scheduling, planning AND playing games at the stadium. Good to know.

------------

Well in a way we are, by buying tickets.

Our influence over people also sells tickets. I am not saying we should become bull**** salespeople.

Have you ever inherited a teenage boys soccer team, only to find not a single one of them have been to a Whitecaps game(in your case impact)? Why? Because their previous coach told them and their parents from age 6 when they started that even going to these games would damage them becuase it was so bad.

What kind of crazy f&CK does that? It is unfortunately kind of a common attitude, even though this was extreme.

It is unlikely these people will ever change, but I hate to give them more ammunition as why everything here is bad.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer

i think julian and paul should not be burning there bridges...

they can't even get on the subs bench these days.

tfc may be there only option soon.

Julian and Paul would have a whole lot of better options than TFC. If they leave their clubs a lot of mid-table clubs in the Premiership, LaLiga and Bundesliga would be interested in them.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer

i think julian and paul should not be burning there bridges...

they can't even get on the subs bench these days.

tfc may be there only option soon.

Julian and Paul would have a whole lot of better options than TFC. If they leave their clubs a lot of mid-table clubs in the Premiership, LaLiga and Bundesliga would be interested in them.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer

i think julian and paul should not be burning there bridges...

they can't even get on the subs bench these days.

tfc may be there only option soon.

Thanks for the input, moron. Paul's had some injury problems leading into this season, but both (when fit) would be starting for any team in CONCACAF.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by cndsoccer

i think julian and paul should not be burning there bridges...

they can't even get on the subs bench these days.

tfc may be there only option soon.

Thanks for the input, moron. Paul's had some injury problems leading into this season, but both (when fit) would be starting for any team in CONCACAF.

[Soccerpro]

Lots of Anger on the board these days, people must be sad that Summer is over!