Serbia and Toronto Croatia

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Interpret it however you want. Your tone is way too aggressive and condescending for this discussion to continue.

You're a hypocrite. I've seen you throw out thinly veiled accusations of racism on the U-board. Now you try and worm your way out by suggesting I'm being "aggressive". Last time you accused me of baiting you because I dared to quote your own words.

You love to dish it out but you can't take it.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by francetic

...if they waved those black chetnik flags then croats had every right to wave whatever banner they wanted!

Two wrongs don't make a right. Unfortunately the people doing the security probably were not clued up enough to know the significance of some of these flags.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

You're a hypocrite. I've seen you throw out thinly veiled accusations of racism on the U-board. Now you try and worm your way out by suggesting I'm being "aggressive". Last time you accused me of baiting you because I dared to quote your own words.

You love to dish it out but you can't take it.

If you calm down and start posting in a rational manner without getting personal like this I would continue the discussion. If you ask idiotic questions about whether or not I condemn stuff like human swastikas then there is simply no way you are getting any more direct replies.

[JayWay]

quote:Originally posted by francetic

First of all it was a human U formed and not a swastika ..... (BIG difference between those 2 symbols )

Post in question:

quote:

Wasnt there i had a soccer game. But my buddy was he said it was mad...in some pics i saw the serbs had everthing upsdie down ahaha. In the 1st game we were going to make a swastica again, but my bud said make the big U, Lmao we are too much.

I'd provide a direct link but it'd only take you to the forum's front page.

quote:

nobody ever mentioned the black chetnik flags the serbian supporters had ?? skull and bones flags which mean death . works both ways buddy ! if they waved those black chetnik flags then croats had every right to wave whatever banner they wanted!

Fine, so you're all morons.

[Guest francetic]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Two wrongs don't make a right. Unfortunately the people doing the security probably were not clued up enough to know the significance of some of these flags.

how could they not some of the security on croat side were serbs ! trust me they spoke the language and were rough at times .

[BalkanBoy]

The diverse population in Canada must now be looked at as one of the distinctive features of Canadian society. Of course, not all parts of Canada have the same population mix. Approximately 90% of foreign-born Canadians live in Canada's 15 largest urban centres. The distribution of foreign-born is uneven. Some cities, notably in the Maritime provinces and in Quebec (outside Montreal), have relatively fewer foreign born. On the other hand, 30% of all Vancouver residents and 38% of all Toronto residents (more than a million people in Toronto alone) were born outside Canada.

So in realizing this of course an Ontario based league is going to benefit from an ethnic division. And no the fighting, the flares on the field, the spitting at people, firing roman candles into the stands thats not right and nor should it be aloud at such games or any leagues games.

On the way up to the game last night I argued with some friends that

if anything bad happened it was going to be put on the SWE fans. Why? Becasue Toronto Croatia has been around forever and the uneducated ignorant people just won't beleive us. Propaganda have ruined everyones views. And not to my suprise, no one really gives a s**t about the TC fans actions last night, they keep refering to the international division to be a bad idea. After the second game there were posts on here about SWE fans and the "Ultra Serbs" being brutal. Everything the Serbian supporters do is unacceptable. Very very frustaring!

I pray and wish some day people would understand the term happenes of my country and be able to make educated statemnets about my people.

Back to soccer, lol sorry, the TC fans were absolutely terrible last night! here is...

Fans formed a human swastika and gave Nazi salutes at a friendly in Italy.

http://www.farenet.org/news_article.asp?intNewsID=723

During Toronto Croatia vs Serbian White Eagles fan made a fair attemped at making a large "Human U"

http://www.zavalatica.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4

[BalkanBoy]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

You need to do some homework....

The Ustase (often spelled Ustashe in English) was a Croatian organization put in charge of the Independent State of Croatia by the Axis Powers in 1941, in which they pursued Nazi policies.

Doesn't matter if it's a human U or if it's a swastika, should not be tolerated. Rascism in the stand is not good, and when it leads to fights in the parking lot even worse.

[BrennanFan]

uh yea anyways,

lamport doesnt look so bad eh, gotta get some field turf on that bitch.

[Guest francetic]

whats the black Serbian chetnik flag mean? black flag with skull and bones very scary flag to anyone that sees it !

[Guest francetic]

i agree the turf is bad at lamport !

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

On a lighter note if you ever play a team of players from the former Yugoslavia a good way to run a fundraiser is to have a 50:50 draw based on predicting the time of the first "Jebem" that is clearly audible to all participants. About 35 seconds is usually about right in my experience.

[BalkanBoy]

quote:Originally posted by francetic

whats the black Serbian chetnik flag mean? black flag with skull and bones very scary flag to anyone that sees it !

The Chetniks were members of a Serbian nationalist and royalist guerrilla organization named after a 19th century Serbian movement opposing Ottoman rule. In World War II, the Yugoslav Royal Army in the Fatherland, also referred to as the Chetniks (derived from the Serbian word èeta, meaning "military company")In the early 1940's, the Chetniks had the support of the Western Allies. TIME Magazine, featured an article which boasted of the success of Mihailoviæ's Chetniks, and heralded him as the sole defender of freedom in Nazi-occupied Europe.

the flag reads:

on top - " For King and Fatherland"

on the bottom - " Freedom or Death"

http://www.vojska.net/eng/world-war-2/chetniks/

[Daniel]

Ooooooooh, mom and dad are going to be SO pissed when they get home and see this thread!

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by BalkanBoy

I don't agree with what happened after the game, but for CSL any press is good press. At least it gets them off pg.6 and 7 of the sports page. I've said it before in here CSL is ultimately a business, I know it should be much more in the Canadian soccer picture but it isn't. They have increased attendance, (at least for the Serbian White Eagle protion) I haven't seen the number but I would bet the International Division has a much superior attendance record the National Divison. All of this equal more money, and ultimately that is a good thing for the CSL

You really are a clueless person.

This is not good press and you better be hopeful this stays in the back pages.

[Richard]

"...you better be hopeful this stays in the back pages."

Serbia and Croatia renew CSL rivarly

By FRANK ZICARELLI -- Toronto Sun

The evening began with more security than spectators.

As kickoff approached, fans began to unfurl their flags and unleash their venom in anticipation of a sporting event that was equal parts athleticism and politics.

The rivalry between Serbia and Croatia is as old as the turf at Lamport Stadium, site of yesterday's Canadian Soccer League game.

When fans were told that the use of flares or fireworks was prohibited, they booed. The warning, however, did not apply to the on-field participants.

With the game barely 20 minutes old, two players -- one from each team -- were given the boot when a scuffle was triggered near the touch line.

So intense is the feud between the two sides and their rabid supporters that fans were instructed to sit on opposite ends of the stadium based on their allegiance.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2006/09/25/1894216-sun.html

[Richard]

It's one thing for this kind of intense rivalry to exist between two ethnically neutral clubs, it is quite another thing when a domestic league deliberately structures a division to be entirely ethnic based in order to take advantage of exactly this kind of political/ethnic antipathy.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by JayWay

Serbian style soccer?

CPSL players playing rec-league level soccer under a Serbian banner?

Are you kidding me?

It's a chance to wave the flag a renue age old hostilities and prejudices.

OK guys, I actually attended the match, along with Rudi and a few other Usector guys, in order to observe the game for ourselves. We stood on the Croat side of Lamport. At one point, the Croats started chanting "Sigani!"[sp?] at the Serbs. Being curious , I went and asked the nearest fellow chanting what it meant. He said,

"It means Gypsy, were calling the Serbs gypsies" He then added,

"I don't care about the game, Im just here for the chants at the Serbs". Another older gentleman said:

"This game is bush-league". And it was frankly, although the wet ancient astroturf didnt help either. Then the "Ush Ush, Ustasha!" chants started. On the way home I stood at the streetcar stop with two Croat girls who said they were Canadian-born college students. I asked them what Ustasha was, and one gleefully said:

"Thats our Croat army. In the war the Serbs killed our people and the Ustasha went and killed twice as many of those bastards". I asked them if they saw the lovely lobbed goal the Serbs scored. They said they had missed it. Some Serb guys in a car drove past us slowly and told these girls they were Croat whores and they should come in their car and give them blowjobs.

During the game, Croats unfurled a big white flag with the picture of some WW2 pro-Hitler Ustashi leader who apparently is a hero for his exploits against the Serb partizans or something. There was another black banner which the Croat girls told me after said something in Cyrillic along the lines of 'Serbia can keep its castles, Croatia has the Adriatic' A big multicoloured gay-pride flag with the Serb symbol painted on it was hoisted aloft, to the delight and derision of the Croatians. There were Nazi salutes, more chants, some Albanians who were there (probably also to vent at the Serbs, not for the game) started chanting "Kosovo Republica!" flares were lit, Roman candles were fired into the Serb stand by Croats in the parking lot, etc. Gypsies are still so hated that calling someone that is the most grevious insult, as is being gay. And this was just what I saw coming from the Croat side of the stadium. I didnt bother to ask what the Serbs were chanting back, I know they can give as good as they get. In fact, the Croatians got away with so much (flares etc) because the security were so obsessed with policing the Serbs lol.

So...we have two fellows who didn't give a toss about the game, one of whom openly admitted he was there to vent at the Serbs, and two otherwise normal Canadian girls who seemingly were too pre-occupied with anti-Serb sentiments to pay attention to the one piece of good play on the tattered old field.

So....the football sucked , people knew it, and they preoccupied themselves with hating the other guys. I am giving you an honest report of what I observed, Balkan Boy can attest to the banners, and the chants etc.

I was shocked by the number of young people who were there, and the implications of this. I was most disappointed with my conversation with the girls who were born and bred here. They have evidently absorbed alot of hate and venom towards the Serbs. How are these girls going to relate to Serbian-Canadian classmates? How are the Serb-Canadian youths at the match going to relate to Croat classmates? Do we really want this venom being transmitted to Canadian-born youths? Do we really want these youths to be encouraged to express hatred like this? Is this a healthy state of affairs? Is this really worth it?

ps, Rudi if you read this, the two girls I spoke to are the same ones who were yelling at the Serbs in the car on King St when we left. After I left you guys at Shoeless Joes they came to the bus stop and they told me what the Serbs had said, and about the banners, Ustashi etc.

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Apparently it is to some on here.

[Gary Cold]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

It's one thing for this kind of intense rivalry to exist between two ethnically neutral clubs, it is quite another thing when a domestic league deliberately structures a division to be entirely ethnic based in order to take advantage of exactly this kind of political/ethnic antipathy.

Richard, stop your hate.

The CSL created a "international" division to promote the league and to survive. It's not part of some huge ploy to create social unrest in this country. What happened at the Serb/Croat game didn't even make the papers. More fighting and name calling goes down at a typical Irish wedding.

The MLS has named two clubs FC. Which cater to the eurosnobs amoung us. It's no better than calling the team the Toronto Brits. Hell one team in the league is totally ethnic (Chivas USA). In Denver and other markets the MLS has tried to reach Mexicans as well.

Go after them as well. A name is just a name.

This country was built on the idea that one could keep his/her roots. Why do you Reform party types hate that idea so much? Why do hate the fact that Toronto has a semi-pro league that doesn't cost you a cent?

And if you really wanted to do something about it, buy a team, go to the league meetings,

just STOP the hate from 10,000 feet.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

OK guys, I actually attended the match, along with Rudi and a few other Usector guys, in order to observe the game for ourselves. We stood on the Croat side of Lamport. At one point, the Croats started chanting "Sigani!"[sp?] at the Serbs. Being curious , I went and asked the nearest fellow chanting what it meant. He said,

"It means Gypsy, were calling the Serbs gypsies" He then added,

"I don't care about the game, Im just here for the chants at the Serbs". Another older gentleman said:

"This game is bush-league". And it was frankly, although the wet ancient astroturf didnt help either. Then the "Ush Ush, Ustasha!" chants started. On the way home I stood at the streetcar stop with two Croat girls who said they were Canadian-born college students. I asked them what Ustasha was, and one gleefully said:

"Thats our Croat army. In the war the Serbs killed our people and the Ustasha went and killed twice as many of those bastards". I asked them if they saw the lovely lobbed goal the Serbs scored. They said they had missed it. Some Serb guys in a car drove past us slowly and told these girls they were Croat whores and they should come in their car and give them blowjobs.

During the game, Croats unfurled a big white flag with the picture of some WW2 pro-Hitler Ustashi leader who apparently is a hero for his exploits against the Serb partizans or something. There was another black banner which the Croat girls told me after said something in Cyrillic along the lines of 'Serbia can keep its castles, Croatia has the Adriatic' A big multicoloured gay-pride flag with the Serb symbol painted on it was hoisted aloft, to the delight and derision of the Croatians. There were Nazi salutes, more chants, some Albanians who were there (probably also to vent at the Serbs, not for the game) started chanting "Kosovo Republica!" flares were lit, Roman candles were fired into the Serb stand by Croats in the parking lot, etc. Gypsies are still so hated that calling someone that is the most grevious insult, as is being gay. And this was just what I saw coming from the Croat side of the stadium. I didnt bother to ask what the Serbs were chanting back, I know they can give as good as they get. In fact, the Croatians got away with so much (flares etc) because the security were so obsessed with policing the Serbs lol.

So...we have two fellows who didn't give a toss about the game, one of whom openly admitted he was there to vent at the Serbs, and two otherwise normal Canadian girls who seemingly were too pre-occupied with anti-Serb sentiments to pay attention to the one piece of good play on the tattered old field.

So....the football sucked , people knew it, and they preoccupied themselves with hating the other guys. I am giving you an honest report of what I observed, Balkan Boy can attest to the banners, and the chants etc.

I was shocked by the number of young people who were there, and the implications of this. I was most disappointed with my conversation with the girls who were born and bred here. They have evidently absorbed alot of hate and venom towards the Serbs. How are these girls going to relate to Serbian-Canadian classmates? How are the Serb-Canadian youths at the match going to relate to Croat classmates? Do we really want this venom being transmitted to Canadian-born youths? Do we really want these youths to be encouraged to express hatred like this? Is this a healthy state of affairs? Is this really worth it?

ps, Rudi if you read this, the two girls I spoke to are the same ones who were yelling at the Serbs in the car on King St when we left. After I left you guys at Shoeless Joes they came to the bus stop and they told me what the Serbs had said, and about the banners, Ustashi etc.

Nice report RG. I'm sure that other neutrals are just as appalled as you obviously are. It's a bad bad scene.

I would bet that Cary Kaplan honestly had no idea what he was getting into when the new division was first discussed but I would suspect that others within the league did and in that sense, the league went into this with their eyes wide open knowing what types of things would occur and therefore have to take a huge chunk of the blame.

They really do have to stamp this out NOW or else it will continue to fester and potentially explode into a truly violent situation. The new division should be dismantled and the league should acknowledge its mistake .... and yes, the CSA must get involved.

This garbage may be considered acceptable in some places on this earth but it is not acceptable in Canada!!!

If Croatia wants to play Serbia, or if Montenegro wants to play Macedonia, or if Slovenia wants to play Bosnia, they can form their own six team "outlaw" league and stop sullying the soccer community with this racist bullsh*t.

db

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

ps, Rudi if you read this, the two girls I spoke to are the same ones who were yelling at the Serbs in the car on King St when we left. After I left you guys at Shoeless Joes they came to the bus stop and they told me what the Serbs had said, and about the banners, Ustashi etc.

Yeah, these are the same girls I spoke about in the other thread.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Doyle G wrote: "...you better be hopeful this stays in the back pages."

Serbia and Croatia renew CSL rivarly

By FRANK ZICARELLI -- Toronto Sun

The evening began with more security than spectators.

As kickoff approached, fans began to unfurl their flags and unleash their venom in anticipation of a sporting event that was equal parts athleticism and politics.

The rivalry between Serbia and Croatia is as old as the turf at Lamport Stadium, site of yesterday's Canadian Soccer League game.

When fans were told that the use of flares or fireworks was prohibited, they booed. The warning, however, did not apply to the on-field participants.

With the game barely 20 minutes old, two players -- one from each team -- were given the boot when a scuffle was triggered near the touch line.

So intense is the feud between the two sides and their rabid supporters that fans were instructed to sit on opposite ends of the stadium based on their allegiance.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2006/09/25/1894216-sun.html

Who would have ever thought that DG, Richard and myself would be in general agreement on any issue! It must be a very cold day in hell!

The CSL, OSA and CSA must act NOW!!!

db

[BrennanFan]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Yeah, these are the same girls I spoke about in the other thread.

were they hot?

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

were they hot?

You know what, they would be considered good looking (blonde etc) but the bloodthirsty hate emanating from them made them look unattractive to me, in all honesty.

[BrennanFan]

i dont get why people have such a big problem with this ethnic stuff. thats what makes soccer fun. you guys just dont know how damn fun it is to have legitimate beefs with other groups and then take it out on the soccer field and in the stands. its cathartic. if the next time canada played the usa and we unfurled a huge anti-bush banner or something and then had flares being thrown back and forth and then there was a scuffle in the parking lot after the game, would everyone really think that was so morally wrong? please, it would be fun, and in my opinion, thats exactly what soccer in this country needs.