Richard Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Sad to see the travel issue get flogged again like a dead horse. Well it hasn't gone away now has it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmparker Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Is it true the the Serbian White Eagles became equity members of the league immediately without having to go through the three year qualification period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Elias And the answer any investor will be looking for is the potential for profits, both from potential revenues, and what the chance of the value of the asset (the team) growing is. Yes, an investor invests in the future potential. For an existing non-profit club, it's a different situation. I think the problem is people don't seem to understand the teams ARE the league. ... Actually I understand quite well because just like the CSL, the EPL, the Football League (England) the PCSL is the teams. We understand very clearly without letting the emotional appeal of a possible national league cloud our judgement. Profit or non-profit, pre-existing or new, is not the point here. The discussion is not around "potential for profits" but should more accurrately be "return on investment." That return can include more than just profits. What one gets for a franchise fee is just as important for the Moose Jaw Non-Profit Soccer Society (est. 1926) as it is for Mr Millionaires Pet Club (est. 2008). The acceptable answers may be different but there has to be some kind benefit to making that investment. Mr Kaplan has shown that he has some good ideas and I will happily give him credit for making the effort. What I cannot do today is support an expansion of his league to BC. (Frankly I don't think he can either.) The issues I am bringing up are ones that will have to be dealt with over the next few years regardless. The CSL, if it is to grow and thrive will have to negotiate improved partnerships with sponsors and media. It will have to ensure professional standards of club operations within the league. And when the CSL wants to expand to the coast it will have to find a way to either compete with the PCSL or to enter into a partnership. Simply demanding that 6 or more teams pony up cash and join is NOT offering any sort of partnership. I hope and believe that in the end there will be some sort of partnership offered because to do otherwise would be divisive and harmful to the game. When the time comes I am sure Cary (or his successor) will have taken the sorts of concerns I and others have raised to heart. If not, well... [xx(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well said Ted. As of today in my opinion no compelling reasons have been presented to convice any PCSL club or the league itself to jump on the CSL bandwagon, especially at the prices quoted. I wish Cary Kaplan and his CSL well however and wait with interest to see what develops in the future. I suspect he will find it challenging to expand the CSL in its present form beyond southern Ontario and western Quebec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Other than on this discussion forum, have the CSL and PCSL actually sat down across the table from each other and discussed a potential merger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ivan Other than on this discussion forum, have the CSL and PCSL actually sat down across the table from each other and discussed a potential merger? Yes. Vince Ursini visited Vancouver specifically for discussions with the PCSL with a view to drawing the PCSL into the CPSL, to no avail I might add. The PCSL has not heard from Cary Kaplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 what separates the leagues? easy...$$$$$ i agree. it makes no sense at this time for the pcsl to join the csl. the league is run in bc as an "amateur" league, and until they are given reason to "upgrade" from this status there is none. invite the pcsl to play in cup competition. if they get their clocks cleaned by the csl this will achieve 1 of two things. the pcsl will try to entice better talent to the league and begin offering bi-weekly cheques (with benefit being international cup competition? and possible transfer fees) or 2, the pcsl will sever ties and continue on its merry way. personally, i'd like to see the two leagues joined. alberta, quebec, and most likely the maritimes would follow suit very quickly. especially when financial gain becomes apparent, and international attention grows due to concacaf presence/bragging rights nationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 And if they don't get their clocks cleaned or the CSL are the ones who come out of it with clean clocks - beware rushing to judgment on such things? There is absolutely no advantage for the PCSL to change its current business model to that used by the CSL - indeed I suggest it would be a grave disadvantage to the PCSL - but that doesn't mean non-participation in a national cup competition if that's what the PCSL member clubs wish and the necessary monies are forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 FOR THE UPTEENTH TIME london city hosts the open canada cup labour day weekend final four london city gets two chances to win the open canada cup (city lost to London AEK 2-1 in the third round) why is that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSL Commissioner Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Ted/Richard, Your passion for the PCSL is great. Currently expansion to B.C. is not a short term goal of the CSL. Until/unless the financials and geography work for everyone, the two leagues are better off co-existing and attempting to work together. Leekoo, Similar to the Memorial Cup, where the host team (out of 40 or so teams) gets to advance to the finals regardless of how they finish, the host club (London City) gets a Wild Card place in the finals, because it encourages home attendance. London City has hosted the Cup several times, because they have consistently offered a better bid than any other team in the league. In order to win the Cup this year, London City would have to win 3 games in 3 days. It won't be easy! Cary Kaplan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T5 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well said Mr. Commissioner "Currently expansion to B.C. is not a short term goal of the CSL. Until/unless the financials and geography work for everyone, the two leagues are better off co-existing and attempting to work together." IMHO your efforts should be developing in Quebec and the East where the populations can support semi-pro type competition. Make that you model; improve as you go and only when support warrants further expansion do you look for an national model. Richard, relax, no square pegs in rould holes, probably not in your life time anyway. Doesn't mean we can't find a way to have an FA Cup for Canada in the shorter run though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 I am quite relaxed and confident the PCSL will not countenance any material changes unless they are in the interests of the players, the clubs, the League and the game in general. The PCSL has been around for 75 years in one form or another so must be doing something right - not too many if any Canadian leagues at any level have such a pedigree. We can only hope that the CSL manages to approach such longevity too in due course, I wish them well. My reaction was to derogatory implications about the PCSL by some posters and their apparent enthusiasm for a western version of the CSL. I am pleased to see such a level headed and common sense attitude about this displayed by Mr. Caplan. It does beg the question about the national aspirations of his league however, the financial and geographical issues have not changed and show no signs of doing so. As for an FA Cup style tournament for Canada - it seems from rumours in other threads and elsewhere this may just be about to come to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard Well it hasn't gone away now has it? Only because people need a boogyman. Bury the horse and let it rest in peace. Travel is not a burden anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 Maybe not a physical burden though some might take issue with that but the costs and time involved can be prohibitive which is the main issue in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leekoo Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by CSL Commissioner Leekoo, Similar to the Memorial Cup, where the host team (out of 40 or so teams) gets to advance to the finals regardless of how they finish, the host club (London City) gets a Wild Card place in the finals, because it encourages home attendance. London City has hosted the Cup several times, because they have consistently offered a better bid than any other team in the league. In order to win the Cup this year, London City would have to win 3 games in 3 days. It won't be easy! Cary Kaplan CITY has already lost a game but CITY hasn't been eliminated ... CITY is scheduled to play a second time ... looks like the tournament is NOT a round robin ... looks like the tournament is NOT a knock out ... mr commissioner, what kind of tournament system is the Open Cup ... second issue csl, 12 teams ... come Open Cup championship time, it's cove road, cove road, cove road ... mr, commissioner, what are the other owners doing to promote the Open Cup ... where are they ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSL Commissioner Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by leekoo CITY has already lost a game but CITY hasn't been eliminated ... CITY is scheduled to play a second time ... looks like the tournament is NOT a round robin ... looks like the tournament is NOT a knock out ... mr commissioner, what kind of tournament system is the Open Cup ... second issue csl, 12 teams ... come Open Cup championship time, it's cove road, cove road, cove road ... mr, commissioner, what are the other owners doing to promote the Open Cup ... where are they ... Leekoo, I am unsure how my answer above could be any more clear that it is above: A. The format is a round robin with a host wild card who must win 3 games in 3 days to win the Championship. B. London City has hosted often, because they have often had the best bid. Seems like a very strong format to me. Cary Kaplan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by CSL Commissioner London City has hosted often, because they have often had the best bid. Hey Cary, I think what some are asking (and concernced about) is whether "having the best bid" (whatever that entails) should be the only requirement in hosting an event. Wouldn't rotating host cities help promote the event across the province, help other clubs develop their facilities accordingly and help avoid any concerns of favouratism/politics being invloved? As an example, most agree that Germany (or a small handfull of Euro countries) could probably always submit the "best bid" to host the W.C. Finals (or the Olympics). However, other important factors are considered and, as a result, South Africa will host the next Finals -- despite the widespread knowledge that no African nation came even close to submitting "the best bid". Just food for thought... I thought it was a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 If none of the other Clubs are complaining, what's the problem? I think that if the ultimate goal is exposure, then having it in the best facility is the best bet. Especially if you can get a media deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C. Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City If none of the other Clubs are complaining, what's the problem? Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was complaining. I was only trying to offer some (hopefully constructive) thoughts, that may (or may not) be worthy of adding to the discussion. Otherwise, I do remember reading (in the past - not this year) of clubs complaining about London's repeated preference in hosting league events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSL Commissioner Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 David C. I would be happy to move the event around, and ideally we will going forward. However, even events like the Superbowl, Vanier Cup, etc... are often in same venue many times, because of a variety of factors ($$, geography, facility, etc...) We evaluate each bid on a number of factors - but should London continue to be the preferred choice, we will not be reluctant to return thier again. Of note, in London, they have financial support from the city, television coverage for the entire weekend, great media support, significant local sponsorship and good attendance. At present, it is quite a healthy formula. Cary Kaplan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 i don't think the real issue people have is the location, but rather London City's seemingly inability to be knocked out of the cup. I agree wholeheartedly if they host they should be in the final matches. As the league develops remove this standard. For now, it will and should remain. If knocked out in the 2nd round so be it. But as a host, then they receive an automatic place in the final matches? I have no issue with this. No one will go out and watch if they do not have a home team to cheer for. A few years ago Chilliwack hosted the men's premier cup - I forget the name. Well Chilliwack did not have a team as they lost in the provincial tournament (as they do every year!) to a Vancouver Metro League side. The VMSL represented BC and thus really the only people out watching the games were players, coaches, and others associated with the tournament. Understandably so. I agree with London receiving a spot in the final, but what people don't agree with is how they get there. Cheers for your stance on the location and acceptance of bids format, Mr. Kaplan. Understanding it is of benefit for the league. Especially with the TV coverage as a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOareaFan Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 The premier sports event in the world....the World Cup....gives the hosts the only automatic berth so I am not sure why it is an issue with this cup. Perhaps it is because the team participates in the tournament and can get "knocked out" and then get the "host spot". Contrast that to the WC where the host simply does not participate until the tournament gets to their country. As pointed out, this cup seems to follow a model more like the Memorial cup (not exactly but close). So it is a bit of a merger of the soccer WC tradition and the Canadian hockey tradition. I don't really have an issue with that. I think work has to be done to figure out why other cities cannot put together a competitive "bid" so that it is not always the same team that benefits from the double knock out situation. Why is London able to get "...financial support from the city, television coverage for the entire weekend, great media support, significant local sponsorship and good attendance." beyond what others can achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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