Gordon Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard How do you know that Kerfoot is alienated? Well I guess I don't. But his Whitecaps mouthpiece Bobby Lenarduzzi certainly was not happy so I am extrapolating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 My U-14 boys are going to Nationals in October. The total budget for this trip is around $23,000. The provincial association puts forth $4,000 as a deductable for air travel and the CSA puts forth 40% of the remainder of air travel which will amount roughly to $3,000. So, that leaves us at around $16,000 that we have to come up with. AS USUAL, our club has to come up with the funds. Of course our club also pays around $33.00 per player in affiliation fees to the provincial association and the CSA, roughly around $70,000 per year. Hmmm, what do we get back? Well let's see. Oh yes, nothing. Several of my players are in Europe on trials, one already accepted in Holland. We have also supplied the provincial association with 5 players from my team, which of course they have had to pay to play. The fact is, the club developed these players and for absolute dirt cheap bargain prices. ($175.00 registration fees) The club supports these players with the absolute best coaching and system to thrive in. The ironic fact about my team winning the provincial championship is that if we decline two weeks after the Provincial Final game in attending Nationals, we will be fined $2,500. Are you kidding me? On top of that, we have to stay in a hotel decided upon by the CSA, so bargain hunting is not an option. That's fine, but the CSA is not paying for our accomodation. The CSA is a joke. I am mad. I am disillusioned. They obviously have money but what the heck do they do with it? Yep, it's tough trying to mould players who will help Canada qualify for a World Cup. Believe me, I have SOME VERY TALENTED players who have been identified and if everything progresses logically, will represent Canada and will enjoy professional careers overseas. At least now they will really see that it is their club that has helped them achieve this and not the CSA.(we sometimes have to grin and bare it when we sacrifice our intiatives for Provincial or CSA initiatives) I am and always will be an advocate for Canadian soccer and try to endorse the heirarchy from National team, Provincial team, down to Club team BUT I do expect to have some help for what my Club and I give these teams. I was very embarrassed when I broke the budget and subsidization template to my team. I was very proud when my Club stated they would support us. Is there any wonder why we criticize the Provincial Associations and the CSA? Let my Club run Canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grecko My U-14 boys are going to Nationals in October. The total budget for this trip is around $23,000. The provincial association puts forth $4,000 as a deductable for air travel and the CSA puts forth 40% of the remainder of air travel which will amount roughly to $3,000. So, that leaves us at around $16,000 that we have to come up with. AS USUAL, our club has to come up with the funds. Of course our club also pays around $33.00 per player in affiliation fees to the provincial association and the CSA, roughly around $70,000 per year. Hmmm, what do we get back? Well let's see. Oh yes, nothing. Several of my players are in Europe on trials, one already accepted in Holland. We have also supplied the provincial association with 5 players from my team, which of course they have had to pay to play. The fact is, the club developed these players and for absolute dirt cheap bargain prices. ($175.00 registration fees) The club supports these players with the absolute best coaching and system to thrive in. The ironic fact about my team winning the provincial championship is that if we decline two weeks after the Provincial Final game in attending Nationals, we will be fined $2,500. Are you kidding me? On top of that, we have to stay in a hotel decided upon by the CSA, so bargain hunting is not an option. That's fine, but the CSA is not paying for our accomodation. The CSA is a joke. I am mad. I am disillusioned. They obviously have money but what the heck do they do with it? Yep, it's tough trying to mould players who will help Canada qualify for a World Cup. Believe me, I have SOME VERY TALENTED players who have been identified and if everything progresses logically, will represent Canada and will enjoy professional careers overseas. At least now they will really see that it is their club that has helped them achieve this and not the CSA.(we sometimes have to grin and bare it when we sacrifice our intiatives for Provincial or CSA initiatives) I am and always will be an advocate for Canadian soccer and try to endorse the heirarchy from National team, Provincial team, down to Club team BUT I do expect to have some help for what my Club and I give these teams. I was very embarrassed when I broke the budget and subsidization template to my team. I was very proud when my Club stated they would support us. Is there any wonder why we criticize the Provincial Associations and the CSA? Let my Club run Canadian soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Daniel Ahhh, I feel better now.[8D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Grecko it seems you would prefer anarchy, then you wouldn't have to pass on any of the money you collect in fees from your club members. This is a good illustration of a point I made elswhere about the objections at club level to financially supporting elite player activity at the provincial and national level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard Grecko it seems you would prefer anarchy, then you wouldn't have to pass on any of the money you collect in fees from your club members. This is a good illustration of a point I made elswhere about the objections at club level to financially supporting elite player activity at the provincial and national level. How could you possibly interpret what I say as preferring anarchy? I believe elite players should be FULLY SUBSIDIZED at the Provincial and National level and that Club fees should be adjusted accordingly to allow this to happen. I state this with sensitivity and acknowledgemnt to the fact that the vast majority of players are recreational. But, how hard is it to adjust the fees within a formula to subsidize the elite player? Do we need to hire someone new at the CSA to do this? Do we not have anyone who can guide or organize the masses to allow this to happen. Richard, what are you trying to say? Don't manipulate my words to push your views (whatever they are). I have read a number of your posts and you have a tendency to mis-interpret things......on purpose?I believe I was pretty clear. Anarchy?![V] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grecko I believe elite players should be FULLY SUBSIDIZED at the Provincial and National level and that Club fees should be adjusted accordingly to allow this to happen. How do you do this? How can the CSA fully subsidize these elite players when they can't even properly fund their own national teams? Where is the money going to come from?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regs Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Richard, Where did you get Grecko prefering anarchy? My God, read his WHOLE post and understand the context it was written in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grecko My U-14 boys are going to Nationals in October. Congrats! Well done! quote: Of course our club also pays around $33.00 per player in affiliation fees to the provincial association and the CSA, roughly around $70,000 per year. Hmmm, what do we get back? Well let's see. Oh yes, nothing. Could you please tell us what the split is? How much for provincial and how much for the CSA? quote: Several of my players are in Europe on trials, one already accepted in Holland. We have also supplied the provincial association with 5 players from my team, which of course they have had to pay to play. The fact is, the club developed these players and for absolute dirt cheap bargain prices. ($175.00 registration fees) The crowd on this board love hearing about Canadians getting their chance in Europe. Tell us more. Who is in Holland and which club? BTW, I'm amazed that registration fees are only $175. That seems really low. Does the club serve a low income area? What kind of badges/qualifications do the coaching staff have? quote: On top of that, we have to stay in a hotel decided upon by the CSA, so bargain hunting is not an option. That's fine, but the CSA is not paying for our accomodation. This seems really fishy. Entering into exclusive agreements that force other people to do business with your partners and pay in full is typical Banana Republic style corruption. It's like using your high ranking position to force people to but tickets for their country's World Cup games through a family-owned travel company at inflated prices. Not that it ever happens though! It would be interesting to see if the CSA does this often, and if it's with the same hotel chain. If there is a formal sponsorship agreement, then the CSA should declare the money being made, and the agreement should include discounts for the travelling teams. Otherwise, it makes me wonder if someone is quietly pocketing cash in exchange for forcing teams to use those hotels. Stuff like this happens in officialdom all over the world, so it cannot be fully ruled out until properly investigated. quote: Yep, it's tough trying to mould players who will help Canada qualify for a World Cup. Believe me, I have SOME VERY TALENTED players who have been identified and if everything progresses logically, will represent Canada and will enjoy professional careers overseas. At least now they will really see that it is their club that has helped them achieve this and not the CSA. I was very embarrassed when I broke the budget and subsidization template to my team. I was very proud when my Club stated they would support us. Is there any wonder why we criticize the Provincial Associations and the CSA? I understand your frustration, but please do not bash the CSA in front of the kids, or even the parents, too much. Despite all the problems, we don't want to see the creation of more DeGuzman Srs who think that their kid should play for another country. The CSA needs to change, but it should happen without turning talented Canadians away from Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis Armada Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 I’m sure that Bobby had bash the CSA in front of his kids and in fact Bobby had bash the CSA in the media; Globe, Star, Sun, etc… As much as we all don’t agree with what Bobby thinks and/or what Bobby had to say, Bobby should forward his resume cause he has shown a lot more vision than any of the CSA cronies for the past 2 decades. Believe it or not, Bobby and his kids have done a lot for Canadian soccer than anyone else. I’m going out on the limb to say that Julian had opened a lot of doors for Canadian players in Germany during his years with Hannover. With Jonathan’s rise to stardom with Feyenoord, a lot of Canadian kids are now being considered in Holland. How many more talented kids will we lose before the CSA changes? quote:Originally posted by KAS Congrats! Well done! Could you please tell us what the split is? How much for provincial and how much for the CSA? The crowd on this board love hearing about Canadians getting their chance in Europe. Tell us more. Who is in Holland and which club? BTW, I'm amazed that registration fees are only $175. That seems really low. Does the club serve a low income area? What kind of badges/qualifications do the coaching staff have? This seems really fishy. Entering into exclusive agreements that force other people to do business with your partners and pay in full is typical Banana Republic style corruption. It's like using your high ranking position to force people to but tickets for their country's World Cup games through a family-owned travel company at inflated prices. Not that it ever happens though! It would be interesting to see if the CSA does this often, and if it's with the same hotel chain. If there is a formal sponsorship agreement, then the CSA should declare the money being made, and the agreement should include discounts for the travelling teams. Otherwise, it makes me wonder if someone is quietly pocketing cash in exchange for forcing teams to use those hotels. Stuff like this happens in officialdom all over the world, so it cannot be fully ruled out until properly investigated. I understand your frustration, but please do not bash the CSA in front of the kids, or even the parents, too much. Despite all the problems, we don't want to see the creation of more DeGuzman Srs who think that their kid should play for another country. The CSA needs to change, but it should happen without turning talented Canadians away from Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by KAS Congrats! Well done! Thank You. Could you please tell us what the split is? How much for provincial and how much for the CSA? I am not sure what the breakdown is but I am sure the provincial associations feel they are not properly funded from the CSA in the same manner that the clubs feel they are not properly funded from the provincial associations. It starts from the top in my opinion. The crowd on this board love hearing about Canadians getting their chance in Europe. Tell us more. Who is in Holland and which club? BTW, I'm amazed that registration fees are only $175. That seems really low. Does the club serve a low income area? What kind of badges/qualifications do the coaching staff have? I feel uncomfortable mentioning my players names on this forum. Their names will eventually be known but I would like to wait until someone other than their coach promotes them in this fashion. They are just turned 14 and have lots of work left to do before getting too excited but it is quite exciting to watch their progress. One player is with an Eredivisie team (top division)in Holland and is in the process of making arrangements to permanently move there. This is not an easy decision as you probably know. He does have excellent family support. Several of my players are leaving Wednesday with a touring team in Holland comprised of players from around the world and mostly North America as a result of an Ajax initiative. One player has been scouted by Everton and will be flown there for a 1 week trial at Everton's expense at the end of August. He was spotted at the Provincial Nationals this month in Edmonton. As to your question regarding registration fees: Our club has always charged $175.00 for Select teams but the registration for the 06/07 season is now $350.00. However, $1500.00 of the registration comes back to the team for their use to purchase training gear other than what the club supplies. i.e. training suits, t-shirts, etc. The Select coaches are now paid, minimal amount, but it allows the club to ensure that the coaches adhere to the philosophies of the club. Most coaches have their provincial B licenses but the club will also accept coaches based on their track record. This seems really fishy. Entering into exclusive agreements that force other people to do business with your partners and pay in full is typical Banana Republic style corruption. It's like using your high ranking position to force people to but tickets for their country's World Cup games through a family-owned travel company at inflated prices. Not that it ever happens though! It would be interesting to see if the CSA does this often, and if it's with the same hotel chain. If there is a formal sponsorship agreement, then the CSA should declare the money being made, and the agreement should include discounts for the travelling teams. Otherwise, it makes me wonder if someone is quietly pocketing cash in exchange for forcing teams to use those hotels. Stuff like this happens in officialdom all over the world, so it cannot be fully ruled out until properly investigated. I don't know if the savings are passed onto us. It seems the amount we are paying is the everyday rate based on what we have seen on the internet. I understand your frustration, but please do not bash the CSA in front of the kids, or even the parents, too much. Despite all the problems, we don't want to see the creation of more DeGuzman Srs who think that their kid should play for another country. The CSA needs to change, but it should happen without turning talented Canadians away from Canada. We do not bash the CSA or the provincial associations in front of the players or as a habit, just when I am asked to fork out $16,000 to attend a CSA event. I and my club encourage our players to pursue their provincial and national careers wholeheartedly within the heirarchy. We want them to play for their province and country, if they are capable, more than anything. The expectations need to be realistic and we adjust them accordingly. However, if the CSA and provincial associations continue as status quo, they will have a tough time working with the clubs for the common good of the player. This is a touchy issue because the ultimate benefit/good for the player needs to allow club and team goals to also thrive. It is a relationship that needs to be balanced carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by masster How do you do this? How can the CSA fully subsidize these elite players when they can't even properly fund their own national teams? Where is the money going to come from?? Man, I'm getting into it now. Masster, I don't have access to the financials and my reply may sound very elementary. Why not increase the amount of every select registration and ultimately the percentage of that registration fee to be set aside to subsidize Select intiatives? How many rep/select players are there in Canada? Increase their dues by 5 or 10% to support these intiatives and to appease the recreational players who do not feel it is warrented to subsidize the elite player? Many of these elite players would not have a problem paying a little extra in my opinion. In my experience, these players will pay more to receive more. They pay to play for their provincial team for pete's sake. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (Just going to interupt for a momment to comment that I'm quite enjoying this topic. Very interesting. Pretty good "ah yes, but" back and forth. Interesting to hear from you, Grecko. We're lucky to have a few lads on the board who've been involved, or are involved at the various levels of the game. Political, developmental and logistical and it does add a grounding spin to things doesn't it?). P.S. And I quite agree. In some instances, such as nationals, I totaly agree that provincial associations and the CSA should find a way to see to it that elite clubs/players aren't priced out of participation. If you want to call this a subsidy then sure, subsidise them. But I don't agree that the revenue generating scheme for this should exclude the non-elite (community club) organizations. The funding should be drawn across the board. But fair enough, it's funny how much people get upset when their registration fees go up $2.45 a season. The price of a small Ice Cap at Tim's? Crazy but true and I think that maybe it says something about the maturity of the sport in Canada.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Georgio Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Replacing the leader can change things for the better depending on what person is elected to take on the job. End of story. CEO enters corporation and turns company around in limited time. It happens, and not that infrequently. Some people are good at this. It's just a matter of finding someone who will take on the challenges and remove the negative stigma that we can't have a league of our own due to a multitude of excuses. If Pipe couldn't find a way or hire a group of people under his directive who can find a way for Canada to have a league of our own then he should have been gone 10 years ago. There is a way to do this and Pipe et al have not exhasuted even a fraction of there options. It's better to have many failed leagues and have tried then to not have any league in 20 years. No balls, no ingenuity and no vision. Just excuses. Does anyone reflect poorly on the CSL. Very few. Do we blame the group who started the CSL or anyprevious leagues ...no. We thank them for the years of enjoyment. No pro league, no youth system, no qualification, no direction. Hey ... but we might have 3 teams in the MLS by 2012. Am I negative or realistic? Oh the woes of soccer fan in Canada... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 If the CEO is instructed by the Chairman and Board of Directors to take a certain course the woe betide him if he doesn't follow their direction. The CSA retained outside, objective experts to assess the viability of a domestic Canadian league not too long ago and the conclusion was that it was not viable for a variety of very sound reasons, just as the empirical evidence of the failed domestic leagues that have gone before proved. Circumstances influencing this conclusion, most of which are beyond the control of the CSA the COO included, have not changed materially. If there was some fairy godmother/father who believed such a league was viable over the long term you can be sure that he/she would have stepped forward by now even in the full knowledge that such a league would always be second string to the well established USL First Division and MLS. No such benefactor has appeared, not even on the horizon. There have however been people willing to step up to the plate for USL and MLS franchises in Canada. If somebody here can table and sell a plan for a viable, enduring Canadian domestic professional League then please step forward but the key words are 'viable', 'enduring' and 'sell'. So far there has been no sign of any such plan no matter how much some people may wish for it. The CSA has therefore pragmatically elected for now to pursue the USL/MLS continental league route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard If there was some fairy godmother/father who believed such a league was viable over the long term you can be sure that he/she would have stepped forward by now even in the full knowledge that such a league would always be second string to the well established USL First Division and MLS. No such benefactor has appeared, not even on the horizon. There have however been people willing to step up to the plate for USL and MLS franchises in Canada. If somebody here can table and sell a plan for a viable, enduring Canadian domestic professional League then please step forward but the key words are 'viable', 'enduring' and 'sell'. So far there has been no sign of any such plan no matter how much some people may wish for it. The CSA has therefore pragmatically elected for now to pursue the USL/MLS continental league route. I have been working on a plan for a Canadian Premier League, but I'm not ready to share it yet. But for starters, it involves a single owner structure - with most off-field employees (activities/expenses) in a single office, a very small number of teams (not distributed as you would think), and a higher standard of play than MLS. Trust me, it's very different and would be better than MLS while being profitable. Higher player wages and attendence than MLS, but with much lower off-field costs, are the key. The problem with some other leagues, like the original CSL, is that they were too small-minded, and were not good enough to get any respect or fans. They didn't think big enough - a classic Canadian problem. The trick, of course, is finding ONE guy with the money to launch this, and the business skills to manage it. Now, if the CSA could just find this one guy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Grecko, thanks for your reply. I understand your relunctance to discuss your players. I also appreciate your willingness to avoid discouraging kids from playing for Canada. What I really find interesting is the hotel situation. Does the CSA always force your teams to stay at a hotel that they pick? Is it always the same chain? Are these hotels picked because they are the ideal (price, safety, proximity to field), or are there better options that they won't let you choose. Could it just be that they want all the kids in one place to facilitate transporting them? The reason why I ask is because this sounds very suspicious to me. If there is no formal sponsorship deal, and no price breaks, then why would the CSA do this? If the CSA cannot explain why they pick the hotels for teams, then the possibility of money going under the table does exist. I would love to hear an explanation from the CSA on this. Otherwise, if this is common, than a media reporter with some time mind find this an interesting area for investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regs Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 In regards to hotels picked for National Championships, I *think* you may find that it is the host association/city/club/whatever that gets the hotel situation sorted, not the CSA. I would assume this would be as part of the organizing committee for each championship getting sponsorship and as KAS alluded to - transportation issues and keeping all teams in one spot. From a logistics and organizing point of view, it really does make sense. Cheers, ~Regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 Thanks for your inquiry as to the progress of my efforts, Richard. I am presently typing about 20 hours a week on it. I don't have a deadline set, but for a marketing point of view, a July 1, 2007 launch would be a strategically good target to aim for. I too am enjoying Grecko's contributions here. Could you at least give us the name of your team if you haven't already. It will be interesting to following the progress now. As far as a Canadian National championship is concerned, at a senior men's level, I don't know if a National League would be a viable alternative. Apparently the experts who have investigated this matter, have concluded that it is not viable at this time. However, I do believe that there are alternatives to a having "League" to determine a national champion. The annual Challenge Cup tournament has thus far, in its current format and the way it is promoted, not really satifactorily live up to this kind of billing. Adjustments could be made to the present structure, starting at the organizational level, to alter this. As the CSA claims ownership of this championship, they have fail miserably in this capacity. If the CSA is truely trying to promote this tournament as a national club championship, they have a lot of work to do, and since they have failed in this responsibility for so long, it is just one more reason for a major change at the administrative top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 quote:I too am enjoying Grecko's contributions here. Could you at least give us the name of your team if you haven't already. It will be interesting to following the progress now. Most provinces don't declare their provincial champions this early - so let's guess that it is BC - and their U-14 Champions are Surrey United Selects. From their club web site: U-12 & U-14 boys select teams win the Provincial Championships. Surrey United Selects 92 have won the 2006 U-14 British Columbia Championship to add to their Coastal Cup and League Championship titles. The team will represent their province at the Club National Championships in Vaughan, Ontario in October 2006. The team has enjoyed immense success this season scoring well over 150 goals in league and Cup play. Surrey defeated North Shore Selects 4-0 in the Provincial Final after going undefeated in round robin play. Surrey also won the Fair Play award in the tournament. Surrey United played some of the most attractive soccer ever seen at this level, and the spectators witnessed some simply incredible goals, great individual skill and excellent team play. The team will enjoy a short rest, but 5 players are representing BC on the U-14 Provincial team and 2 players with the Whitecaps, and 3 players with the IPL team. Several also have trials in Europe this summer. A National Championship title would culminate a great season but the team realizes that more hard work is necessary. Well done to Coach Spiro, Paul, Randy, Massimo, Linda and the boys. ******************** And to confirm what Regs has said .... yes! .... it is the hosting province or the local organising committee that determines the hotel or hotels. The only CSA rule is that the teams have to stay in the hotel(s) designated by the host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecko Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Bill Spiers Most provinces don't declare their provincial champions this early - so let's guess that it is BC - and their U-14 Champions are Surrey United Selects. From their club web site: U-12 & U-14 boys select teams win the Provincial Championships. Surrey United Selects 92 have won the 2006 U-14 British Columbia Championship to add to their Coastal Cup and League Championship titles. The team will represent their province at the Club National Championships in Vaughan, Ontario in October 2006. The team has enjoyed immense success this season scoring well over 150 goals in league and Cup play. Surrey defeated North Shore Selects 4-0 in the Provincial Final after going undefeated in round robin play. Surrey also won the Fair Play award in the tournament. Surrey United played some of the most attractive soccer ever seen at this level, and the spectators witnessed some simply incredible goals, great individual skill and excellent team play. The team will enjoy a short rest, but 5 players are representing BC on the U-14 Provincial team and 2 players with the Whitecaps, and 3 players with the IPL team. Several also have trials in Europe this summer. A National Championship title would culminate a great season but the team realizes that more hard work is necessary. Well done to Coach Spiro, Paul, Randy, Massimo, Linda and the boys. ******************** And to confirm what Regs has said .... yes! .... it is the hosting province or the local organising committee that determines the hotel or hotels. The only CSA rule is that the teams have to stay in the hotel(s) designated by the host. And Bill, I certainly want you to know that we appreciate Vaughan, Ontario hosting us and look forward to meeting all of you. As you know, BC and Ontario tied with 1st place overall at 10 pts at the Provincial Nationals. Ontario won the gold with a +8 diiferential to BC's +7. The game between Ontario and BC ended 0-0. We are expecting some excellent competition and are excited about getting to play at the Nationals. Good detective work and I think I am done complaining for awhile. Just wish we were helped a bit more by our Associations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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