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Canada's Ideal Line up and Formation


Canadiense

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"MLS is not Concacaf"

I would think that the level of play in CONCACAF is not that much better than the MLS (of course Mexico and the USA are playing at a much better level but the rest of the teams aren't that good). The main difference is that playing in San Salvador or Honduras can be a lot of tougher than your average away game in the MLS.....

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i disagree. canada would walk over any mls team, and yet beating el salvador, guatemala, cuba, and jamaica would be no easy task, even at home. i think it also has to do with most concacaf players playing above their usual ability when they put on their nations shirt (as opposed to some of our guys whose quality plummets when theres no big cheque involved: radz, de guzman, stalteri, pesch etc etc).

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quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

i think people are becoming a bit delusional when it comes to dero and his ability to be a true number 10.

That may (or may not) be true but the funny thing about international soccer is that you cannot go out and sign/trade-for a true #10. Your player pool is what it is and you have to work with what you have at hand.

From our player pool, it is likely that DeRosario and/or DeGuzman (and maybe Hume and/or Hutchinson) are the only players capable of filling the bill.

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OK...

So it has become a question on what formation and lineup we can use for CONCACAF teams vs other international teams.

We have to agree on 1 point:

We have to first qualify to the World Cup and to do so we have to be able to play and win games in San Salvador, Guatemala City, San Jose, etc...

Don't forget... In our last WCQ(2006) Costa Rica and Guatemala beat us in Burnaby. We can not let things like that happen.

DeRO not for midfield???

Personally I like the guy in midfield because of his appearences for Houston. Although I must agree that one thing is playing against the Galaxy and another is playing in Central America, with fans completely hating on the away team.

That being said a 4-3-3(offensive) minded formation would be ideal... Although I feel that we need a disciplinary coach to play against teams that play the ball on the ground.

Most of the players that we have metioned in the line-ups play in Europe or MLS... big style of difference compared to teams such as Costa Rica and Guatemala.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE WE HAVE THE TALENT TO BEAT THOSE TEAMS AND QUALIFY (maybe 3rd of the 2nd phase group in CONCACAF). So I guess my new question would be what kind of line up would you use against CONCACAF teams (USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Trinidad) in competitions like qualifying and Gold Cup (which is next year).

I personally would take the game to them just like the U20's did with Brazil.

GK) Sutton

RB) Stalteri

CB) McKenna

CB) Hutchinson

LB) Klukowski

CM) Peters

CM) De Guzman

CM) Simpson

CF) De Rosario

ST) Hume

ST) Friend

sugestions?

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quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

i disagree. canada would walk over any mls team, and yet beating el salvador, guatemala, cuba, and jamaica would be no easy task, even at home. i think it also has to do with most concacaf players playing above their usual ability when they put on their nations shirt (as opposed to some of our guys whose quality plummets when theres no big cheque involved: radz, de guzman, stalteri, pesch etc etc).

You clearly haven,t seen Radz playing for us or Stalteri for that matter, both of them are always working hard. Radz work rate was the highest of any canadians during the WCQ in 2004, maybe he didn't scored but he was working harder than anybody on the field.

I haven't seen DeGuzman for a while, but I've always remember him for being a hard worker.

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I have to agree CONCACAF is tougher than MLS. I also think a good number 10 has to be able to pass and receive a pass effectively as well as shoot accurately on goal something DeRo has not shown at international level. He is more effective in MLS because he gets a lot more chances so he can afford to miss some and the play is a bit slower so he can afford to be a bit inaccurate with his passing. I think his main benefit to our MNT in the last couple of years is he looks a lot more dangerous than he is so he forces teams to be defensively more conservative. Yet what we need is someone who not only looks dangerous but actually is dangerous, ie. scores when alone on the keeper or doesn't make a bad last pass which ruins a great opportunity. DeRo was an unconditional starter with Yallop and I hope the new coach at least tries some other players in this role. I would like to see Hutchinson tried out as the central offensive midfielder.

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Borrowing Loyola's chart, my version with starters and subs.

-----------------Hirschfeld (Sutton)----------------

Stalteri(Ledgerwood/Braz)--Nsaliwa(Hainault)--Serioux(Edgar)--Klukowski(Jazic)

------------------DeGuzman (Imhoff)--------------------

Peters (Bernier)---------------------------------Brennan (Simpson)

--------------------Hutchinson-------------------- (DeJong)

----Hume (DeRo/Johnson)--------------McKenna (Friend/Occean)

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

You clearly haven,t seen Radz playing for us or Stalteri for that matter, both of them are always working hard. Radz work rate was the highest of any canadians during the WCQ in 2004, maybe he didn't scored but he was working harder than anybody on the field.

I haven't seen DeGuzman for a while, but I've always remember him for being a hard worker.

i remember radz playing really well against honduras in edmonton. the rest of the games he was invisible. Stalteri cost us a goal against Guatemala and then he got himself carded. deguzman never really did anything at all, shamefully he was outplayed in the midfield by Grande! I MEAN MY GOD! no way he brought his A game for wcq, just no way.

anyways i agree hutchinson should be our go to guy in an attacking midfield role. he has shown he can score. deguzman is much tougher, and thus should be used as a def mid.

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quote:Originally posted by Daniel

If you guys are looking for a distributor and shooter behind the forwards, it can't be anyone but Grande.

It could be a far more dangerous and talented Hutchinson. If Grande is the best we can do at this position we are in trouble. He has had a few good games for us and few poor ones and I do like him as a player but I don't think he is an A-level international like Hutchinson and like I hope DeJong will be. Good depth and injury cover player though. However, Canada has always started too many B-level internationals with only one or two of what I would consider A-level guys, ie. guys who could be starters on any mid-level Euro national team. Now that we are starting to develop better players we need to have the top guys on the field with a coach who can get their top game out of them.

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Some players do bring the pain for the nats and some players don't. Grande do baby, Grande do! Too much looking at how these guys play at club level surrounded by a completely different team. Look at how they work together in Canada's system. Building a good team isn't always packing the pitch with the top level players, didn't work for Brazil.

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I still think the Portugese 4-5-1 formation is the way foward. It provides tactical options;

If Canada are ahead, keep the formation.

If Canada are behind or being held, replace a Midfield Holder with a Striker. Possibly Friend, but he could be a bit too Crouch-esque.

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quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

i remember radz playing really well against honduras in edmonton. the rest of the games he was invisible. Stalteri cost us a goal against Guatemala and then he got himself carded. deguzman never really did anything at all, shamefully he was outplayed in the midfield by Grande! I MEAN MY GOD! no way he brought his A game for wcq, just no way.

What do you expect Radz to do??? Picking the ball in Onstad hands and going all the way??? My point is those guys gave a big effort but in the end it didn't work out and I think the biggest reason might be that we didn't have the adequate preparation and we were p^laying teams who played friendlies all summer long. We had no cohesion and you can't blame all our stars players for that, preparation is crucial in international soccer and we aren't getting any.

Not giving the appropriate effort is far much different than having a bad game or making mistakes.....you don't seem to get that part. Everyone will make mistakes but it's not a lact of will it's just human.

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quote:Originally posted by Desigol

I still think the Portugese 4-5-1 formation is the way foward. It provides tactical options;

If Canada are ahead, keep the formation.

If Canada are behind or being held, replace a Midfield Holder with a Striker. Possibly Friend, but he could be a bit too Crouch-esque.

How many games have you seen Canada play?

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I can see why you would like the 4-5-1 (4-2-3-1) since 3 of the 4 semifinilists played used it @ Germany2006. It is a good thought to consider that now adays it is important to control and the midfield and the more personel that you assignt to that section of the field the better chance you have of keeping the ball or winning it. That being said consider the current 4-3-3 formation that Canada's using, check the starting linup vs Austria:

GK) Stamatopoulos

RB) Pozniak

CB) Reda

CB) McKenna

LB) Klukowski

CM) Hutchinson

CM) Serioux

CM) Grande

CF) Radzinski

CF) De Rosario

ST) Gerba

After all the substitutions and changes (when the team scored the 2 goals) the team looked as:

GK) Stamatopoulos

RB) Pozniak

CB) Reda

CB) Hutchinson

LB) Jazic

CM) Bernier

CM) Brennan

CM) Grande

CF) Radzinski

CF) De Rosario

ST) Friend

I believe that there's a difference between a CF and a ST, a CF is an offensive minded player that also connects with the midfield. Whereas the striker purpose is to only look for the openings and but the ball in the back of the net.

So in a way the 2 CF's that we use in Canada's latest 4-3-3 formation work as extended midfielders (wide/central players). That explains how De Rosario and Radz had openings coming from late runs.

So really instead of a 4-3-3 it is a 4-3-2-1, or in clear terms an offensive 4-5-1 (just like the one that Chelsea FC plays under Morinho who is also Portugese).

Thus I still belive that Canada must be an offensive minded team and take the game by the grip of the neck.

A couple of postings ago I made a similar suggestion for lineup:

GK) Sutton

RB) Ledgerwood OR Stalteri

CB) McKenna

CB) Edgard

LB) Klukowski

CM) De Guzman

CM) Hutchinson

CM) Bernier OR Grande

CF) Hume OR Peters

CF) De Rosario

ST) Friend

sugestions?

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There are four top leagues in the world- in no particular order- England, Germany, Italy and Spain. There are five Canadians playing in those leagues, Stalteri, Radzinki, Imhoff, McKenna and Deguzeman. Of those five only Deguzeman appears to be a unanimous choice as a starter for Canada, McKenna and Stalteri appear to be controversial choices and Imhoff and Radzinski not at all. While I can understand the desire to attribute to the under appreciated player for East Armpit in the European seventh tier of European football skills and abilities that others have overlooked, we shouldn't overlook the real skills and abilities of those players who play at the top of the professional pyramid.

Top elenen now (midfield diamond);

. . . Hirshfeld

Stalteri Mckenna Hutchinson Klukowski

Bernier Imhoff Derosario Deguzeman

. Occean . Radzinski

Mid qualifying;

. . Hirshfeld

Stalteri Mckenna Edgar Klukowski

Peters Johnson Hutchinson Deguzeman

. . Hume Friend

wild cards; Begovic, Hainault, Nasaliwa, Dejong, Gyaki, Lombardo

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The problem with your last assertion resides in the fact that neither McKenna nor Imhoff have ever played in the first Bundesliga, they're on promoted clubs (unless Kev did last time around). Imhoff is an unremarkable defensive mid, where we probably have the most depth and talent.

Most people have Stalteri and McKenna in their lineup, but Stalteri is getting older. Same for Radz, who hasn't shown much commitment with the national team the last few years and is also getting older.

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quote:Originally posted by Canadiense

:)

lol

No man...

I am not Mr. Hart.

The reason why I started this topic was because I wanted to get people's opinions of the type of talent that we have for our MNT and that we can compete with nations in CONCACAF and other places.

I am 4th year student @ the University of Calgary... Born in El Salvador (central america), but a proud Canadian.

And yeah I am a hardcore Canadian supporter for the world's best game -> soccer

That being said from the new reviews here a new suggested line up has arrived:

Canada 4-1-2-1-2

GK) Sutton

RB) Stalteri (until we find someone younger and better)

CB) McKenna ©

CB) Hutchinson (Edgard could also compete for this one in future times)

LB) Klukowski

DM) De Guzman

RM) Peters

LM) Simpson

AM) De Rosario

CF) Hume

CF) Friend

A nice formation with a dimond in the middle, although we need more international games to put it to work.

Opinions?

Just curious why you changed some of your team from your original one. What do you mean by from the "new reviews"?

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To wildboy

The reason why I changed some of the players from my original suggestion, was because I considered some of the suggestions that were made by other people in this forum. @ first I was a fan of the 4-3-3 (and I still I am).

But after checking the game yesterday btw MLS All stars vs Chelsea FC, I felt that a 4-1-2-1-2 would be a bit more suited for the players that we have.

I like DeRo coming from behind, @ the tip of the dimond.

As for the new reviews, it only means the new psotings made by people in the forum. So I read those as well and I take into consideration their suggestions.

Again... I still feel that Canada has the skill and ability to make World Cup 2010...

The new coach must combine the youth (Peters, Simpson, Johnson) with experience (De Rosario, de Guzman, Hutchinson)

cheers

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quote:Originally posted by ken

There are four top leagues in the world- in no particular order- England, Germany, Italy and Spain.

I think france is outpacing Germany inthe last couple years by a long shot. Germany hasn't really been producing star players lately, like Ballack's kinda old when he left, as well the players they pulled in post development are leaving (Ze roberto).

Additionally I think that Lyon is way better then Bayern, and for germany's hamburg and werder bremen, france has lille, marseille, PSG, Bordeaux, Monaco etc.

France has been pulling in major players (Denilson, Vieri etc.) and has been producing major talent for export (Ribery, ronaldhino, Jay Jay O, Evra, Essien etc etc)

In all ways in the last couple years france is superior to germany and is probably gaining on the EPL for third best league and I think it shows a huge lack of depth on are part that we have no one in France or Italy. Really we should be finding france much easier to get into then Spain considering Quebec, Bernier and Occean could probably easily fit into a mid level french club and guareenteed starters in the second division.

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quote:Originally posted by ken

There are four top leagues in the world- in no particular order- England, Germany, Italy and Spain.

I think france is outpacing Germany inthe last couple years by a long shot. Germany hasn't really been producing star players lately, like Ballack's kinda old when he left, as well the players they pulled in post development are leaving (Ze roberto).

Additionally I think that Lyon is way better then Bayern, and for germany's hamburg and werder bremen, france has lille, marseille, PSG, Bordeaux, Monaco etc.

France has been pulling in major players (Denilson, Vieri etc.) and has been producing major talent for export (Ribery, ronaldhino, Jay Jay O, Evra, Essien etc etc)

In all ways in the last couple years france is superior to germany and is probably gaining on the EPL for third best league and I think it shows a huge lack of depth on are part that we have no one in France or Italy. Really we should be finding france much easier to get into then Spain considering Quebec, Bernier and Occean could probably easily fit into a mid level french club and guareenteed starters in the second division.

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